gifted 4 year old LOVES preschool...... *sigh* - Page 4

[umami_mommy]

sweetsilver.... LMAO!!   don't i *wish* this kid was interested enough in TV for her to actually finish watching a program. (which she will do when tired) but in the AM, she is full of energy to greet the day and is very busy feeding her mind!

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Will you hate me if I tell you (kindly!)  to suck it up in regards to mess?

No, I wouldn't.  I think that is what I've been trying to do-- find that place where the mess can happen without bringing the house down around our ears!  The hairbrush game the OP mentioned sounds exactly like one of her games, and I laughed.

[umami_mommy]

SS, this was this morning's game 3 minutes out of bed: takes empty contact lens solution box, fills with water. "mmmmm it leaks. i wonder what will make it not leak. this is my experiment, see what will make the box not leak." me: "it's cardboard honey, it doesn't hold water, no matter what it will leak." looks in closet. "how about these q-tips?" grabs handful of q-tips. starts wedging them into the flaps. me: "do you have to use q-tips? they are kinda expensive." shrieking "it's my experiment!!!!" fills box with water, water shoots out around q-tips. "well, i need something better." box collapses. "well, this box sucks." walks away, leaving waterlogged box, q-tips in sink and water everywhere. this was while i was putting in my contacts! 

[shoefairy3]

Someone a couple posts back recommend the Play at home Mom blog.  Seriously, it is a-mazing.  Check it out.  Those ladies have the best idea.  From what you have described about your DD, I think she would love some of the activities on there. 

[kathymuggle]

OT a little:

I was reading the book "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" a few days ago and immediately thought of this thread.  I think it gives a good picture of what using with young children can look like!  

[SweetSilver]

Using your example of the cardboard box/ Qtip experiment, because that is exactly the kind of thing I see at my house.

Despite my expressed frustrations on other threads about the craziness in our house, I have had a few successes in exactly this kind of thing.

Disclaimer: this has worked with my kids for the most part, they might not work with yours.

First, I wouldn't burst the bubble of your daughter's experiments.  It's helpful to use this preschool time to develop that kind of patience (I'm not suggesting you haven't!  Just pointing it out in general.)

The water in the cardboard box (depending on how big a box):  water games belong in the sink, tub, or outside.  I don't want to see water pouring out onto counters and floors.  I have more patience with this that my dh.

The expense of some materials.  First, I count it as a homeschooling expense.  I rarely refuse outright, but there has to be some limits, doesn't there?  "Qtips are expensive.  How about you use just 10."  If she fusses, ask her to "pick a number, then, and leave the rest for mama to use.  I'm happy to share some but those are too expensive to use them all."  Then negotiate if she hasn't had a tantrum at this point.  You can do this from the shower.

My girls are playing in the sink right now.  They've stopped whining when I say I need 10 minutes to finish the chores and have a clean sink.  They keep the water at a nice trickle-- I don't even need to remind them of this anymore.  They turn the water off.  They keep the water mostly contained, at least as far as my own expectations go.  They still need practice to please their dad. Some water is also counted in my head as a homeschooling expense.

This is where the vegetable peelings came in, in the sink and water game (as feed for their animals).  I give the girls quite a lot of leeway if they follow certain rules, but those rules took a lot of reminding.  At 5 and 7, it has literally taken a lifetime to teach them these rules.

Like kathymuggle suggested, I accept quite a bit of mess and "chaos" as part of the USing process.  It is an ongoing struggle in our house in some areas, but in others, like the example you've given, they pretty much will follow the rules (at least now they do!)  I think because it has been matter-of-fact and over and over and over again, and not flipping out about the messes made meanwhile (ahem!  I wish dh would take this advice!)  

Damn!  .....I just wish/hope this could work with the other issues I'm struggling with and are taking longer to resolve.  It is not a perfect process at. all.

[Pookietooth]

I know they are generally for toddlers, but have you looked into having a modified busy bag swap with some other moms? Is there a public email list you could use for this (or even the finding your tribe area of MDC? Something like:

http://unsolicitedadvice-n-such.blogspot.com/p/busy-bag-swaps.html

http://www.intrepidmurmurings.com/2011/03/ideas-for-toddler-preschooler-activity-bags/

Also, as far as sensory activities, have you looked into sensory integration therapy ideas? They were developed for kids with sensory processing disorder, but a lot of them are very fun and helpful for high energy kids as well. Something like the book, "The Out of Sync Child Has fun" would have a lot of ideas. They are the ones that developed things like texture tables (rice bins, etc.).

Here are some examples found by Google, but the Special Needs Parenting forum in MDC might have a bunch more:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14670-sensory-modulation-and-sensory-integration-activities-for-home-and-school/#JUMP1

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-integration-activities.html

http://www.the-special-needs-child.com/sensory-integration-activities.html

Have you read about actve alerts?

[umami_mommy]

SS, i do *try* to approach my kids like you described... i do try to provide a way to support what they want even if i can't find an outright yes answer to them. we try to focus on what they *can* do not what they can't do. i like the idea of *limiting* her chaos by providing her with options (she's really bad at decision making though.. if i give her a choice, sometimes it's like mind lock for her) to her usual tornado way of approaching things! but i must admit, in the above situation... i was like 30 seconds out of bed and my brain was still off. and ummm the whole thing took like 90 seconds!! she always woken up like a speeding train! 

pookie, thanks so much for your links. my son has a SPD and so we *do* try to do lots of sensory activities (i have those books! and we do use the basket system from the explosive child)... i do let her play in water... and not complain too much about water everywhere (it is water after all), i think the issues that i am having center on her freaking out when i do try to put any kind of limit on her behavior and the difficulties she seems to have with impulse control. (runs in the family!) and of course balancing everyone's needs... i have a son i homeschool, i business to try and run, a house to try and keep clean enough for us to function in and of course, just breathing and having time to brush my hair!! 

and no i have not ever heard of active alerts! please tell me more. 

[Pookietooth]

NAK http://www.amazon.com/Living-Active-Alert-Child-Groundbreaking/dp/0943990882

[Nicolette507]

Okay, I do not know a lot about unschooling, but I 100 percent agree with your thoughts on public schools and I understand that it is difficult now and you are looking for suggestions to meet your daughter's needs.  (quick note about myself: I am a special ed teacher birth-5, have not worked in a school, though.)  I read through all of these suggestions and the the piece that kept coming up about your daughter is that she is very social.  Since, like I said before, I do not know very much about unschooling, this idea may not work for you or your lifestyle, but....have/would you consider having another child (maybe preschooler) in your home as a peer for your daughter?  Sort of like being a nanny or babysitter.  If you find a like-minded parent who wants something similar for their child but has to/wants to work, it may be a great fit.  You can (possibly) earn some money and be able to afford some more activities (if you wanted to) for the kids and most importantly, your daughter would have a friend to spend time with each day.  I have no idea if this is even a suggestion that you would welcome, but as a working parent of a 2 year old, thinking about what I want to do for my daughter when she turns five, it would be really nice to find someone who has a similar lifestyle that I could trust to carry over values we hold in our family.   Maybe there is a parent like that where you live.

[misskitty]

The real problem is that unschooling is not as structured or as social and that is what your daughter needs.  So, if you want to create a new environment for that, then you have to do a few things differently.  You will need to create a strict scedule, work her butt off, and work daily with other parents and children groups.  This is a ton of work, so i would join some type of homeschooling system that supports this.  There is a reason so many parents fail at homeschooling and it is because it is so incredibly difficult to do well.  Many kids are destructive when they are bored and not getting their needs met.  This means she isn't working hard enough, being challenged enough, and needs more social interaction.  So, you have to do those things on a daily basis and on a strict schedule.   

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by misskitty 

The real problem is that unschooling is not as structured or as social and that is what your daughter needs.  

Unschooling should end up being exactly what the child wants, even if that's highly structured and highly social. I have a highly social, very driven newly-9-year-old. Today she has the following things on her schedule: snowshoeing, violin practicing, baking cookies, math, science, geography, baking pitas, a social date, a 90-minute violin rehearsal with friends, chores, readaloud, craft time. Tomorrow she's out of the house for 6 hours for social time plus her violin lesson. Friday she has an all-day art workshop with a bunch of fellow homeschoolers. Wednesday is a ski day, plus music group class. She's busy, she works hard, she has a very full schedule. And we are definitely unschoolers! 

Miranda

[umami_mommy]

oops!

Edited by umami_mommy - 1/30/12 at 12:05pm

[momtokea]

Originally Posted by misskitty 

The real problem is that unschooling is not as structured or as social and that is what your daughter needs.  So, if you want to create a new environment for that, then you have to do a few things differently.  You will need to create a strict scedule, work her butt off, and work daily with other parents and children groups.  This is a ton of work, so i would join some type of homeschooling system that supports this.  There is a reason so many parents fail at homeschooling and it is because it is so incredibly difficult to do well.  Many kids are destructive when they are bored and not getting their needs met.  This means she isn't working hard enough, being challenged enough, and needs more social interaction.  So, you have to do those things on a daily basis and on a strict schedule.   

Is this post a joke?  Because it is SO funny.

[umami_mommy]

i was thinking "does this person know what unschooling is?" & "is this person a troll?" 'cause i had a similar reaction!

yup, she/he's a troll. check out the photo... and the other posts. 

Edited by umami_mommy - 1/30/12 at 12:04pm

[Luckiestgirl]

The sentence that begins, "There is a reason so many parents fail at homeschooling" makes me scratch my head.  Who says all these people are failing?  And even if they were, what makes the poster think she has the one answer to it all?

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

i was thinking "does this person know what unschooling is?" & "is this person a troll?" 'cause i had a similar reaction!

yup, she/he's a troll. check out the photo... and the other posts. 

She might just be new and more mainstream than many here .    I skimmed her other posts, nothing screamed "troll"

[umami_mommy]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 


   I skimmed her other posts, nothing screamed "troll"

really? 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

really? 

Yeah, but I might be wrong/naive, lol.  I generally choose benefit of the doubt.  

[Piglet68]

You know, I think part of the initial problem was the thread title. A very common theme that pops up in this forum is "my kids loves school or says they want to go to school, should I give in?"...and then there is the usual discussion that follows where some folks argue that letting your kid choose to go to school is like letting them choose whether they should eat cake for breakfast every morning - it's bound to appeal to them but is not good for them for reasons they don't understand. Then there's the other camp that argues that school isn't so bad and unschooling isn't for everyone, etc...

TBH, when I first read this thread I thought it was one of those. Today I decided to re-read the original post to remind myself about this discussion and for some reason this time I noticed that the OP quite clearly stated she was not questioning whether to send her child to school, but how to handle her needs. This is a bit different than the kind of thread I noted above, and I think that confusion may have been why some people started suggesting school.

In fact I even said in my first reply to this thread that it might not be the end of the world if she went to school (thinking the OP was considering it). But then I read the OP stating clearly why she would never consider school and I felt a bit ashamed of myself.

The truth is I feel the same way she does and sometimes I temper that so as not to offend all the people whose kids are in school. But this is an unschooling forum, and why should I or the OP feel bad about laying it all out on the line - there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that essentially removes children from their homes and family and the Real World for a huge percentage of their waking hours for 12 YEARS...leaving paid strangers to handle the bulk of formative moments for our kids, not to mention the highly unnatural social environment...and she is bang-on about how school allows both parents to work and fuels the economy, which is why governments fund it so highly.

And this is NOT the same thing as saying that no child could ever be happy in school or that parents who send their kids to school are somehow "bad". 

This is an unschooling forum, and nobody here should have to defend their view that school is inherently damaging to children, to society, etc. If people find that offensive then perhaps this isn't the forum for them.