Strong catnip/fennel tea in syringe for restless baby?

[Dot-to-Dot]

Does anyone know about this?  I read this suggestion a few weeks ago and I can't remember where.  Yesterday, in desperation I sent my dh out to buy the herbs and today I steeped the tea for 10 minutes and gave it to the baby (a syringe's worth).  Then I nursed her, burped her and laid her down...and she just laid her head down and is asleep.  THIS NEVER HAPPENS.  Ever. 

My daughter is high needs...cranky, must always be held but tries to leap out of your arms constantly, never stops moving.  She "cries it out" in our arms and it breaks my heart.  Whines all the time.  Her eyes follow me around the room as she whimpers for me to hold her but she's nearly impossible to hold.  She doesn't nap more than 15 minutes and is so tired that she wants to comfort nurse all. the. time.  And it's the only thing that keeps her mildly occupied, so I let her.  She's exclusively breastfed and at 7 months of age, we've gone through countless dietary considerations as well as chiro, probiotics, ergo, sleepywrap, homeopathic remedies, co-sleeping, not co-sleeping, dark room, keeping her up longer, not keeping her up longer...I mean the list goes on and on as far as what we've done to try to calm her and keep her content and to help her to sleep more than 15 minutes to get the rest she needs.  But still, she has dark circles under her red little eyes and everywhere we go people say she looks so sleepy. (she is! always!) 

Clearly, I'm tempted to give this stuff to her again.  And again!  Every day!  But I'm not sure how safe this is for everyday use. I want to just observe her for the next couple days (bowel movements, mood, etc) to make sure she tolerates it okay.  Anyone know about this remedy?

[KathrynH]

I feel your desperation for sleep!

I tried camomile tea when DS was around 6 or 7 months. We stuck with it for about 2 weeks, but stopped because we couldn't see any real difference in his sleep patterns. I know that in Europe it is fairly common to give herbal concoctions to infants, even when they are still newborns. Before we gave DS the tea, I had found a few German websites that sold various teas specifically for infants. We didn't use one of these teas, however, just an organic brand that I trusted from Whole Foods.

DS is now 15 months and still waking twice each night. Like you I have recently read that fennel promotes sleep, so I dug the Mother's Milk tea out of our pantry and have been downing it in hopes that that the fennel will pass on to him (still breastfeeding). I'm thinking about going a more direct route, however, and mixing some fennel tea with his prune juice.

As for the safety... There are several European companies that make infant teas incooperating fennel (e.g., http://www.natural-alternative-products.co.uk/neuners-organic-baby-stomach-ease-tea-p-4051.html), so I'm not too concerned about it.

Good luck! Please post a follow-up on how things turn out!

[KathrynH]

I feel your desperation for sleep!

I tried camomile tea when DS was around 6 or 7 months. We stuck with it for about 2 weeks, but stopped because we couldn't see any real difference in his sleep patterns. I know that in Europe it is fairly common to give herbal concoctions to infants, even when they are still newborns. Before we gave DS the tea, I had found a few German websites that sold various teas specifically for infants. We didn't use one of these teas, however, just an organic brand that I trusted from Whole Foods.

DS is now 15 months and still waking twice each night. Like you I have recently read that fennel promotes sleep, so I dug the Mother's Milk tea out of our pantry and have been downing it in hopes that that the fennel will pass on to him (still breastfeeding). I'm thinking about going a more direct route, however, and mixing some fennel tea with his prune juice.

As for the safety... There are several European companies that make infant teas incooperating fennel (e.g., http://www.natural-alternative-products.co.uk/neuners-organic-baby-stomach-ease-tea-p-4051.html), so I'm not too concerned about it.

Good luck! Please post a follow-up on how things turn out!

[Dot-to-Dot]

I am in total shock...my 15 minute napper (the one who cries if you ever try to lay her down for a nap as well as cries the whole time you try to gently rock her and sing to her), she went down with zero protest and has been sleeping for 1 hour and 40 minutes...still going!  Could this really be a result of the catnip fennel tea?!!  I am glued to our video monitor to make sure she's still breathing.  I don't remember her ever sleeping this long, even in the first weeks of her life.

[cyclamen]

Both of those are colic remedies.... that's probably why it worked.  And teas and infusions are the gentlest of all forms of herbal preparation.  I personally would probably want to check in with an herbalist about dosing frequency and duration, but it sounds like you found something that works for your baby.

[Dot-to-Dot]

I gave it to her again at bedtime and she had a really rough time.  We actually have a good thing going with bedtime and sleeping through the night and basically she slept for half an hour and then just could not stay asleep.  Kept laying her head down and closing her eyes but then popping up and yelling/crying.  But then I wouldn't go in because she'd instantly lay down again with eyes closed.  This went on for an hour and I finally just went in and got her, tried to nurse her again (she didn't want it) and then gave her gas medicine.  Then I rocked her and pinned her legs up froggie style.  She passed gas once and seemed very happy and relaxed in my arms after that.  Finally laid her down again.  This turned into a 2 hour bedtime as opposed to our usualy 10 minutes.  So the catnip/fennel tea ain't magic.  I do think it helped her at naptime, but no dice at bedtime.

[mommyislearning]

My first was incredibly colicy. Disaster. We tried all the modern fixes, and all the traditional old-fashioned ideas my romanian mother-in-law insisted on. Of them all, the only thing that worked with repeated success was fennel tea. Thank god my second was not colicy - she was a dream compared to the first - sorry honey! I got intop the habit of buying fennel tea by terravita - I found I could trust zooscape.com to get it to me quickly. I usually just bought the loose tea, its cheaper, but you can buy it bagged to. You can buy it here -> http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questc100402

[Dot-to-Dot]

Thanks mommislearning!  My first was this way, too and people told me my second would be a better sleeper/napper.  Imagine my shock when she was just as colicky if not more.  Sure makes it hard to enjoy the baby stage the way I want to.  A friend with the same aged baby came over the other day and said, "Don't you just love this age?"  I wanted to cry.  Because, no, I don't.  And yet, when it's over, I'll miss her being my little baby.  I just wish she were easier to cuddle and comfort.  Even my 2 yr old has started saying, "Mommy you need to comfort her."  It's like, I KNOW!  If I knew how, I would!

She finally settled herself last night and happily slept through the night (8:30-7:00, nursed and slept one more hour).  This has been happening for a few weeks after I implemented a program (no, not crying it out alone in a dark room).  Anyway, the program worked wonders for her nighttime sleep and so at least we have that going for us.  I will try to give her tea before naps again today and let you all know if it works again or if it was just a fluke.

[Gracecody]

This is a really interesting thread. A couple of days ago when we were hving a really rough patch with restless sleep day and night, I thought my son might not be getting enough milk. He's 3 mos old. I took my Motherlove More Milk Plus double dose which really helps bump up my supply and he slept so much better that day and night. It's a fenugreek, blessed thistle, nettle and fennel tincture. I wasn't sure if it was him getting more milk or the tincture itself that helped, probably both...he had been napping so restessly and a few hours after I took it he took a very restful 2.5 hr nap.

[Dot-to-Dot]

I've tried pumping for 5 minutes after every feed, drinking loads of water, drinking nettle/alfalfa tea alternating with Mother's Milk tea and taking More Milk Plus tincture thinking I needed to make more milk or more nutrient dense milk.  I think she enjoyed my increased supply, but didn't really seem to NEED it exactly.  But that is a good thought.

I feel like yesterday was a fluke but at the same time, when she refused to nap today (tried for about 3 hours) she actually laid her head on my chest the way a tired baby would do.  She never does that...it's like she's hyperstimulated all the time and always has to pop her head up to see what that noise was.  While this was sweet, it wasn't gonna result in a nap with my boisterous toddler dancing around and occasionally making super loud noises.  When the toddler finally went down for a nap, I was able to take advantage of the baby laying her head on my chest and I played some lullabies and she fell asleep on my chest.  It is rare that she falls asleep on me, especially in the bright living room.  I just held her and enjoyed it for about 20 minutes and then transferred her to her crib.  (I had to EAT!)  She slept for 20 minutes more for a grand total of 40 minutes.  Which is still a big improvement!  If that happened every day a couple of times a day, I'd be thrilled!  But not if it takes us 3-4 hours just get there.  *sigh*  This has been the longest 7 months of my life.

[ZippyGirl]

Originally Posted by Dot-to-Dot  This has been happening for a few weeks after I implemented a program (no, not crying it out alone in a dark room).  Anyway, the program worked wonders for her nighttime sleep and so at least we have that going for us. 

Could you please share your program?  Pretty please?!?!?? 

Also, for gas, I came across this product, called The Windi, while buying a nose frida for my DS.  I have no idea if it works, but thought I would pass it along...maybe someone has experience with it and can chime in:

http://www.fridababy.com/shop/windi-for-gas-relief/

But, please, please share your nighttime program!!!!

[Dot-to-Dot]

Absolutely, I'll share!  But, first, we LOVE the nose frida in our house...must look into the windi! Thanks!

So, I used the Sleep Sense program...however, I never left the baby to cry, I picked up the baby when I felt she needed me to and I talked to her, touched her etc. for the whole time we implemented the program (all of 15 minutes).  At times I was practically IN the crib hugging her until she was calm.  You see, she was inconsolably crying in my arms for FAR LONGER than 15 minutes (more like 2-4 hours each night) and so I decided to see what happened when she cried out of my arms but without being abandoned.  Wow.  It worked really, really well and seemed so much more gentle and successful than when I was trying to comfort, bounce, swing, cradle, sshh, distract, sing, swaddle, etc for hours while she struggled against me and screamed.  In fact, the program calls for 10 nights but for us it only took the one.  Worked almost exactly this same way with our older daughter, too.  I liked this program because they do not tell you to leave your baby crying (although they do support that option if you choose...yuck) and they have a high success rate even if you are there comforting your baby the whole time.  Co sleeping was unfortunately an utter failure and made our family miserable for the 6 months that I stuck with it.  While it broke my heart to try the crib, it also broke my heart to see my baby suffering, crying and thrashing all night long in our bed every single night and starting the day so grumpy and unable to cope with anything - it wasn't working - the baby was not getting what she needed.  I am very close with my girls and I invest a lot of time in meaningful interaction and bonding, so I felt like a failure when co sleeping wasn't working. We bought all sorts of things to make it more comfortable, more conducive to comforting a baby and then tried the Arm's Reach co sleeper, too. 

I drew the line when I was driving (with baby in the car) and sleepily drifted across the double yellow line on a curvy road with oncoming traffic.  I decided right then and there that sleep would be a priority above all else in order to keep us safe.  This was well past the time when people offer to help you after a new baby so I had nobody who was able to go get the family groceries or run errands for us just because I was tired. I had to do something.  This approach ended up being much gentler and way more successful than I thought it would be.  Of course if you can find another method that involves no crying, I'd go with that first...but we'd tried them all.  Read all the books.  I actually had an AP mom from mothering.com suggest this to me but I wasn't sold on it.  My mom bought it for us out of desperation to help our floundering family and I decided to read the online book - I couldn't stop reading and stayed up until 2am reading til the end.  I figured I would be up most the night with the baby anyway.  When I finished reading I decided we should try it that very night and that was that.  Bottom line, she doesn't cry it out at bedtime - I can't stand to hear her cry.  We did this out of desperation one night and the child woke up that first morning more refreshed and happier than I'd ever seen her.  I feel so happy for her every morning when she wakes up bubbly and cooing, ready to play and in a great mood. She clearly needed this sleep.  What a gift!  Of course as the day goes on and she gets sleepier, she deteriorates until we are all miserable.  This program doesn't really do much for naps unforuntately.

[Dot-to-Dot]

I just checked out the windi...   omg.

Just trying to remember how odd I thought the nose frida was and how I later came to love it....

[Dot-to-Dot]

It occurred to me that I should add that I used this program knowing that the baby was well fed and growing just fine (99th percentile thank you very much!)  :)  If she needed to eat still during the night, I would not have done this program.  Also, I would never do this with a baby younger than 6 months.  Denying hunger cries throughout the night can lead to failure to thrive.  Also, since our night feeds stopped I was very careful about my breastmilk supply - I upped water intake, started drinking mother's milk tea every single day, took the tincture, nursed a lot during the day and also pumped at night for a couple weeks after she slept through the night to ensure I was  making enough to feed her very well throughout the day.  I just didn't want to sound like I support letting a hungry baby cry while you sit there comforting but denying food! 

[cat13]

Originally Posted by Dot-to-Dot 

I just checked out the windi...   omg.

Just trying to remember how odd I thought the nose frida was and how I later came to love it....

OMG is right! At first I thought it was a joke product... that is hilarious!

[ZippyGirl]

Originally Posted by Dot-to-Dot 

Absolutely, I'll share!  But, first, we LOVE the nose frida in our house...must look into the windi! Thanks!

So, I used the Sleep Sense program...however, I never left the baby to cry...

Thank you SOOOO much for sharing.  I had such a rough time co-sleeping with my first child and just cannot do it again with my second.  So, I am trying to gather info to help me help my new baby sleeeeeeepppppp.

Is this the program you used?  http://www.sleepsense.net/

And OMG is right to the Windi!!!!

[branditopolis]

Originally Posted by Dot-to-Dot 

I just checked out the windi...   omg.

Just trying to remember how odd I thought the nose frida was and how I later came to love it....

Just read through this thread and googled the windi...

teehee.  I kind of want to try it.  DS has some major gas in the evenings and I don't know how to help him out.  He'll cry out, toot, and then look completely relieved and cuddle up to me again.  we aren't breastfeeding anymore for personal reasons and he's only 4mos right now and I've tried every formula with no ease in the evening gas. 

[branditopolis]

Originally Posted by branditopolis 

teehee.  I kind of want to try it.

clarification: on DS, not on myself.  well, maybe on myself. 

[Dot-to-Dot]

Originally Posted by ZippyGirl 

Is this the program you used?  http://www.sleepsense.net/

Yep, that's it.  I just really like that the program offers flexibility in how you approach it so you can do what feels right to you as a parent.  My main question was how long do most babies cry.  I dug through the info and she says an average of 45 minutes.  Considering we had bouts of 2-4 hours of crying most nights, that sounded just fine especially since I would be right there comforting and kissing on the baby the whole 45 minutes.  

[AdinaL]

Thank you for clarifying that you did not leave the baby to cry it out. :)  I just want to remind folks that MDC does not wish to host advocation of harsh sleep training programs, such as those that suggest CIO.  So, please post accordingly.