6 year old cannot be quiet - Page 2

[LynnS6]

Several thoughts:

Is there "heavy work" that she can do in the house? Ok she can't hang up laundry, but what about carrying half a basket of laundry for you to hang up? Give her a bag of oranges to put away when you've done the shopping. Have her haul her laundry down to the washer -- even if it takes her 3 trips. That sort of heavy work might meet her sensory needs and reduce the amount of random noise making. A mini trampoline in the living room?  I know that my kids' tics and noises do get less when they get enough exercise, especially whole body exercise. Friday night, ds was pulling his hair and holding his hands weirdly so he wouldn't touch anything (his current two weirdnesses). Saturday, he played basketball for 90 minutes (with stoppages) and football with the neighborhood kids for 2 hours. No hair pulling and less weirdness with the hands.

Now, OT: We started "chore time" when dd was about 3 and ds was about 6. Chore time consisted of 15 minutes after dinner. I wrote down very specific things on popsicle sticks for them to do. they would pull a stick, do the chore and go back for the next one until the 15 minutes were up. I'd mix them up depending on what needed to be done. "Pick up 15 things on the living room floor." (The fact that this was in there several times gives you some general idea of the state of the living room floor!) "Vacuum stairs." "Scrub sink in bathroom". When they were really little, I had to work with them, showing them how to do it. Yes, it is more of a pain than doing it yourself. But I didn't really view this time as "cleaning time", I viewed it as "teaching time" where a little cleaning got done. So maybe the key for you will be to think not of this as actual cleaning, but as part of your homeschooling time. Daily life skills need to be learned too. The other key for me is that I make sure I'm the one who does a chore the next time if the kids do it one time. So, if the kids scrubbed the sink this week, I'll do it more thoroughly next week.

We've recently moved to a 'new' system -- I've made a list of chores that need to be done to keep the house minimally clean. It doesn't include the decluttering and other things (like cleaning out the fridge) that need to be done over the course of a week. I've divided them into roughly 6 days' worth of work (Tuesday is garbage night). It doesn't matter which chore is done on which day, but over the course of a week, all should be done. And instead of working for 15 minutes, they work until their chore is done. Last night, the kids scrubbed the bathroom floors. Was it perfect? No. But ds' was pretty close. Dd had to go back and do a few parts over, and today I noticed some spots she missed. That's OK. I'll get those next week. And there was some teaching going on. Ds (age 10) started in the doorway and was working his way back to the corner. I had to explicitly tell him to start in the corner and work his way to the door! Apparently that wasn't self-evident. I also had to help them sweep the floors, as neither is great at that. So, yeah, you do have to lower your standards a bit. I don't know of any other way for kids to learn to do chores than to actually do them. And do them badly at times so they either have to go back and redo them or be made aware of how to do it the next time.

For cooking, I set aside times to cook with dd (ds isn't that interested) when I'm not rushed. There are days when I say "you can set the table" if she asks to help. But I'm not having her cut tomatoes or slice meat. She stirs food quite nicely, however, and cuts out a mean biscuit.

[serenbat]

Not resisting but just trying to dig deeper to figure this out. I do care how long she takes to cut the veggies because I've got things on the stove and waiting to go in the oven or whatever. So it holds me up and I really don't like it. You need to make the time as the other PP stated- start with setting aside days that are just for her to help you "work" at the food - use the other example setting the table, etc on the odd days-

I think you should be able to find work for her in the kitchen almost every day - from tearing lettuce to taking ends off beans while you work on another item- so what if it takes her 20 mins and you could have done it in 5 and you work on another item while she is taking the time. There is really so much that little hands are great at! We use a tub for washing fruits and veggies (less water waste) and at three they can do a good job already.

The laundry line is way too high for DD to reach. It's 6 feet up, and balanced over the back step so I would never dream of having her use a stepstool there. Not to mention, I cringe to think of all the dropped clean clothes, getting dirty. - tie a rope lower, unless you have animals most grass is clean 

we use folding racks, they are great inside and my three year can reach them, at her age she should be able to presort, by color, items, have her stand right by the washer and take items out and put right into a basket, if she can't hang up, do the folding and not just hers-

we even have a small rack just from my DS to use for his item, he can hang and clip his socks and loves doing it- he has his own basket too.

I cringe at the idea of her scrubbing the toilet. And dripping the toilet brush all over the floor. I'm just telling you what is going on in my mind. I don't know how to get past it. we find it really easy! starts by you being right their and wiping as they swish and have her wipe up the floor when you are done, all part of cleaning the bathroom- it's not hard for my three year old, we do all our cleaning working DOWN, you start at the highest point you can reach and work to the floor- goes for dusting too- works wonders- I don't just give a brush and walk away! When we dust we do that first and the vac is second. We also have a dust pan and small broom and my DS gets it out and cleans up his playdoh with it. 

You take it wrong, I work full time. I also can't go back in time and have her scrubbing toilets at age 2, so that part isn't helpful. Besides, she was not really walking independently at age 2 anyway. She is not fully typical in physical development. She cannot climb on the counters to put things away. She cannot come even close to handling a gallon jug of milk to pour it in her own glass. My three year old is capable of putting away toilet paper, knows where cleaning supplies goes (under the counters) can stack boxes that need to be put in the pantry infront of it, can put cold items infront of the freezer- I don't give gallons of milk for him to put away, but he can do the small stuff, he helps carry it in, folds up the bags and doesn't sit and just watch- he helps out, it does not mean going on counters.

we do use stools in the kitchen that reach the counter tops and he is now tall enough to put away flatware, he can stand on a stool and get spices out  and dishes, etc. Can set the table, help clean up, dry dishes and as the PP mentioned put away fruit too

I think you are being given lots of good advise, you need a bit of a letting go here and a bit more getting her involved

by the way we don't do "chores" we don't believe in payment for expected "work" we all must do something to help out in our home

today my three year old, helped DH clean the bathroom, collect and dump waste baskets, helped with the meals, and it doesn't come across as "work" but expected and what needs to get done stuff

[laohaire]

OK, I might be getting the hang of this. I also maybe am starting to feel better (chronic problems causing lack of patience but possibly getting better this week) so this might make it more possible for me to be patient with this.

Tonight I had DD:

• Wipe the table off before dinner. I showed her how to do it thoroughly.
• (after a deep breath on my part) Shred spinach for dinner
• Crack and whisk eggs
• Cut the cheese (snort, no, really)
• Bring dishes out to the table
• Get and serve DH his can of seltzer
• Take her own plates back to the sink after dinner
• Pick up a bit after dinner, with me doing some of the work at the same time as directing her ("please put this hat in the cubby downstairs," "where does this toy go?" etc.

I know it's not a shockingly impressive list but I think it's just a shift for me, I'm seeing a little how to involve her a bit more.

"You gotta suck it up" is valid to me, so I'll keep it in mind.

It really does make a difference to feel good and have the energy for it though.

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Several thoughts:

Is there "heavy work" that she can do in the house? Ok she can't hang up laundry, but what about carrying half a basket of laundry for you to hang up? Give her a bag of oranges to put away when you've done the shopping. Have her haul her laundry down to the washer -- even if it takes her 3 trips. That sort of heavy work might meet her sensory needs and reduce the amount of random noise making. A mini trampoline in the living room?  I know that my kids' tics and noises do get less when they get enough exercise, especially whole body exercise. Friday night, ds was pulling his hair and holding his hands weirdly so he wouldn't touch anything (his current two weirdnesses). Saturday, he played basketball for 90 minutes (with stoppages) and football with the neighborhood kids for 2 hours. No hair pulling and less weirdness with the hands.

Now, OT: We started "chore time" when dd was about 3 and ds was about 6. Chore time consisted of 15 minutes after dinner. I wrote down very specific things on popsicle sticks for them to do. they would pull a stick, do the chore and go back for the next one until the 15 minutes were up. I'd mix them up depending on what needed to be done. "Pick up 15 things on the living room floor." (The fact that this was in there several times gives you some general idea of the state of the living room floor!) "Vacuum stairs." "Scrub sink in bathroom". When they were really little, I had to work with them, showing them how to do it. Yes, it is more of a pain than doing it yourself. But I didn't really view this time as "cleaning time", I viewed it as "teaching time" where a little cleaning got done. So maybe the key for you will be to think not of this as actual cleaning, but as part of your homeschooling time. Daily life skills need to be learned too. The other key for me is that I make sure I'm the one who does a chore the next time if the kids do it one time. So, if the kids scrubbed the sink this week, I'll do it more thoroughly next week.

We've recently moved to a 'new' system -- I've made a list of chores that need to be done to keep the house minimally clean. It doesn't include the decluttering and other things (like cleaning out the fridge) that need to be done over the course of a week. I've divided them into roughly 6 days' worth of work (Tuesday is garbage night). It doesn't matter which chore is done on which day, but over the course of a week, all should be done. And instead of working for 15 minutes, they work until their chore is done. Last night, the kids scrubbed the bathroom floors. Was it perfect? No. But ds' was pretty close. Dd had to go back and do a few parts over, and today I noticed some spots she missed. That's OK. I'll get those next week. And there was some teaching going on. Ds (age 10) started in the doorway and was working his way back to the corner. I had to explicitly tell him to start in the corner and work his way to the door! Apparently that wasn't self-evident. I also had to help them sweep the floors, as neither is great at that. So, yeah, you do have to lower your standards a bit. I don't know of any other way for kids to learn to do chores than to actually do them. And do them badly at times so they either have to go back and redo them or be made aware of how to do it the next time.

For cooking, I set aside times to cook with dd (ds isn't that interested) when I'm not rushed. There are days when I say "you can set the table" if she asks to help. But I'm not having her cut tomatoes or slice meat. She stirs food quite nicely, however, and cuts out a mean biscuit.

She's not very strong but I can try to build her muscles and confidence with some stuff, sure. A half a basket of laundry is beyond her at this point, but it's a good idea to have her work up to it.

Popsicle idea is cute! Also your comment to see it as teaching time instead of cleaning is a good one. Lots of good ideas.

[serenbat]

we start using sharp knives at age two and sewing needles about four so soon with this one

I don't have any of the toilet or the tub cleaning or hanging outside

Tonight I had DD:

• Wipe the table off before dinner. I showed her how to do it thoroughly.
• (after a deep breath on my part) Shred spinach for dinner
• Crack and whisk eggs
• Cut the cheese (snort, no, really)
• Bring dishes out to the table
• Get and serve DH his can of seltzer
• Take her own plates back to the sink after dinner
• Pick up a bit after dinner, with me doing some of the work at the same time as directing her ("please put this hat in the cubby downstairs," "where does this toy go?" etc.

thats a start- 

make your grocery list and your meal list with her and figure out what days she will do what, at that age she may want to do a regular calendar (they had cheap nice ones at Michael's last week for a buck- kid, blank ones) get her to write down what days she will be doing what things- so you can both look forward to it

[AnnieA]

I have a couple of chatty kathys on my hands too. In fact 3 of the 5 kids so far make random noises. Youngest DD isn't old enough to find out yet whether she will make random noises! All older kids are in public school and the constant noises are a problem in the classroom.

DSD 14 seems to have the most trouble with it. It's like she has a predetermined about of words/noises that need to come out every day regardless of her activity. If she isn't able to get it all out during the day, she will literally lay in her bed at night and talk or sing to herself. DSD 12 shares a room with her and she tolerates it pretty well but sometimes it causes fights if DSD 12 is really tired and DSD 14 won't stop talking. We've asked her repeatedly to stop and she seems physically unable to stop until her word quota is used up. She also whistles and will stop if asked but usually only for about 1-2 mins and then she will start again. She doesn't appear to realize she's doing it. When she is working on math by herself in school, she talks to herself and it does bother her classmates sometimes. I thought peer pressure would be enough for her to curb it but it doesn't seem to be affecting her.

DSS 11 has lots of conversations to himself as well. Especially when playing video games. Sometimes in the car I will remind him to keep it in his head. He's usually just talking to the characters in the game. He has random tics and noises such as throat-clearing/coughing that can drive me up the wall but we don't tend to ask him to stop making those noises because they really appear to be involuntary and he gets upset when he can't stop doing it. He's been evaluated for Tourette's and doesn't appear to have it.

DSS 16 mimics musical instruments a lot because he loves music and he drums EVERYTHING in sight.

I haven't noticed that physical activity makes it better.

[serenbat]

I haven't noticed that physical activity makes it better.

the thread comes across to me as when ever mommy is preoccupied (busy) the chatter goes up a bit and perhaps pushing towards physical activity (involvement) might derail that a bit, I don't see much ending it 

[SweetSilver]

As a knitter, I am always hearing about adults who bring projects to knit on while attending classes at school.  I could never understand this.  How could they focus?  My brain would all over the place if I did that.  But the response was that it keeps their hands busy and that clears their mind for them to focus better.  Then I realized, that while I couldn't knit I would doodle constantly.  Odd to think that keeping one part of the brain busy can actually clarify the part of the mind that is being attentive.  That she can be quiet during a focused activity like stories tells me that all is well.  

Before I read that you work full-time, I was going to suggest simply starting dinner earlier and dedicated more time to each chore.  But, oh well.  Both my girls love chopping *mushrooms*.  They are so satisfying for little kids to cut.  My younger daughter loves to cut up butter to make our "heart biscuits" and she does it so slowly!  I showed her how to cut up a long stretch of butter before plopping the pieces in the bowl, instead of *cut*.....*plop*.  And yes!  I have to leave the room or do another task because the butter is getting all melty and I cannot hover and watch.  She's getting faster!  

We have a huge wooden drying rack that the girls love doing.  I don't have them do the toilet, either but my oldest likes to wash the sink and she will do that while I do the toilet, then she helps me with the tub.  I only do a quick glance at her work to see if any big globs are still left to point out, otherwise, I avert my eyes to not look too closely so I can avoid being critical.  Right now, housework is about setting habits, and learning that they don't have to suck.  If they are there helping I look away if I feel inappropriate criticism burbling up in my throat.

One thing I can tell from the start-- she has a really awesome mama.  Being able to examine your own actions critically as well as examining what's happening with your daughter is a wonderful thing.

[serenbat]

As a knitter, I am always hearing about adults who bring projects to knit on while attending classes at school.  I could never understand this.  How could they focus? 

 MANY have to do this to keep sane!

I see the DD's chattering the exact same way.

Many need music to focus while others need complete quiet as an example. Some chew gum or fidget as their release and it's all about focusing!

Sadly many educators fail to understand this!

[laohaire]

I can't describe how significant of a factor feeling good is to being a good, patient mom. In the last few days I've been feeling so much better and in the last 2 days I've been pretty much the mom I've wanted to be.

I have been using a lot of the ideas. I literally just got back from a walk with DD. I don't know if physical activity will keep her quieter but it doesn't make a difference; taking the walk was good for our bodies and our relationship. It wasn't long - just 10 minutes on a work break - but we got to breathe the winter air and enjoy the sunshine and chatter about things. I told her the names of the streets and asked her if we needed to turn left or right to get home. She was really happy.

I also have been asking her to do more. I think it was a state of mind I had to switch on. The things I've been having her do are not significant, but just asking her to take on more herself. She took off her coat while we were walking and asked me to carry it, and I told her nicely that she needed to carry her own coat, which she did without complaint. I still don't plan to have her scrub the toilet - just my hangup - but I am crafting plans (insert evil laughter here) to have her scrub the bathtub.

About the singing and all... I think it's ok. The main worry was whether she COULD be quiet if she NEEDED to. And I've been paying attention and I think she can. And if there are some times she has a hard time with it, I'm sure she'll get better with age. I am not worried that it's pathological anymore (I wasn't deeply worried before, but I wondered).

BTW I wasn't saying she gets chatty when I'm busy per se, but that she talks/sings/hums/whatevers to herself when things are quiet.

[lavatea]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

I can't describe how significant of a factor feeling good is to being a good, patient mom. In the last few days I've been feeling so much better and in the last 2 days I've been pretty much the mom I've wanted to be.

I have been using a lot of the ideas. I literally just got back from a walk with DD. I don't know if physical activity will keep her quieter but it doesn't make a difference; taking the walk was good for our bodies and our relationship. It wasn't long - just 10 minutes on a work break - but we got to breathe the winter air and enjoy the sunshine and chatter about things. I told her the names of the streets and asked her if we needed to turn left or right to get home. She was really happy.

I also have been asking her to do more. I think it was a state of mind I had to switch on. The things I've been having her do are not significant, but just asking her to take on more herself. She took off her coat while we were walking and asked me to carry it, and I told her nicely that she needed to carry her own coat, which she did without complaint. I still don't plan to have her scrub the toilet - just my hangup - but I am crafting plans (insert evil laughter here) to have her scrub the bathtub.

About the singing and all... I think it's ok. The main worry was whether she COULD be quiet if she NEEDED to. And I've been paying attention and I think she can. And if there are some times she has a hard time with it, I'm sure she'll get better with age. I am not worried that it's pathological anymore (I wasn't deeply worried before, but I wondered).

BTW I wasn't saying she gets chatty when I'm busy per se, but that she talks/sings/hums/whatevers to herself when things are quiet.

Glad to hear things are looking up for you. Love all of the ideas on how to get the kids involved in chores. I need to try to implement some of them myself.

I've had a few good days that have then turned rough right at the end. I'll feel so good about myself and my parenting until about 7:30 when things break down. I think it's a tiredness issue. During the day I'm able to keep my cool and I've been trying to say "yes" more and give the kids, DD especially, more attention (she needs a ton of attention). But then once I get tired, all patience is gone. And I think that maybe as she gets tired her cooperation level drops. Anyway, it's turned pretty ugly the past few nights. I'm hoping tonight goes better.

[PAOUtah]

laohaire: is she a rock star in the making?

I've made bass guitar sounds with my throat since I was 7. Clacked my teeth for drums. My muse has not left me since that time. Ever see Jimmy Page play guitar? Watch his mouth _ I think he and I are doing the same thing: using our head - literally - to make music.

I cannot stop it anymore than I can stop the Earth rotating.

Growing up, I was told at least once a day by my family members to shut up. It's all I ever heard. It really killed my self esteem, which at age 50+ I'm still working to recover and probably always will be until I die. I'm okay with that. The "shut up" treatment directly led to a huge trauma that I will not reveal publicly.

My DS is a lot like me: very gifted with words and concepts, even if he can't read and write very well yet, nor tie his shoes because he doesn't get it yet. Since he could talk he's spoken in complete sentences with great detail and alacrity.

Here's the thing: he and I don't learn a thing until we open our mouths. When we speak, a magic happens. It's powerful and transformative. I don't know how many times I've annoyed a boss by popping in, talking the problem out and in mid-sentence blurting out "oh! I've got it" and leaving no sooner than I appeared.

Not saying this is the case with your DS, and I hope you and she don't go through what I did: irreparable harm to my self and family relations that never recovered. I forgive them, and often I have to do it daily just to remind myself that every day I have several decisions to make. The core decisions is to acknowledge the wound, speak words of love to it, and speak words of love and encouragement to those I happen to interact with that day.

And yet, I dream someday that my dad would actually love me; that my brother would see me for who I am; and that my sister would choose to overcome her own trauma.