Vaccinations - desperately need input! - Page 2 « Back to Group Discussions

[Jaimee]

Katie, I'm pretty sure we've had a few threads in the DDC about this that you could look at as well.  Try searching the group and the old forum.

-Did you decide to vax?  Why/why not?

We started selective and delayed vaxing with dd, but we stopped when she was about 6 months old b/c our guts told us to stop after doing some more research on the subject.  Ds1 has only received the tetanus mono vax when his toenail was ripped off by a metal door.  Ds2 will also not receive any vaxes unless necessary.

We came to this decision through research on each vax- the pros and cons.  I recommend Sears' The Vaccine Book to learn about the vaxes.  I also recommend the several Mothering Magazine articles that covered vaxes (I believe I put links in the previous vax threads).  Like others have mentioned I would like my children to have natural immunity to those diseases that are actually around and am not worried about the diseases that are extremely rare.  That being said, we are not anti-vax completely.  If there is a very good reason to vax then we will when necessary- like to travel or when they are approaching puberty and have not received immunity to mumps (the boys) and rubella (dd).  I feel a whole lot better about vaxing an older child than an infant.

-If you decided NOT to vax, are you afraid of your child(ren) getting sick from vaccine-preventable diseases?  How do you deal with that fear?  What other preventative measures do you take?

Most of the diseases are nothing to really be concerned about- people used to get them routinely as children no problem.  The more concerning diseases are also the ones that are very rare.  I don't have fear about this any more than I have fear about any other variety of illnesses, injuries, etc. that my children will have to deal with.  Preventative measures include limiting exposure to disease (like don't take an unvaxed child to another country where the diseases are prevalent), boosting immunity, building immunity, good nutrition, hand washing, cleaning, education, etc.

My bottom line with this issue is to trust your instincts and if you're in doubt, delay!!  You can always vax later, but you can't take them back.

[Lula's Mom]

With my first, we didn't know what to do, so we decided to delay until she was 2.  At 2, she had been beautifully healthy and we had researched more, so we decided not to vaccinate at all.

None of my 4 kids have had any shots.

Great post on pertussis, Rachel!  My daughter did get what was most likely whooping cough when she was somewhere around 3.  I say most likely because we did not take her to be officially diagnosed, but she had the terrible cough with the "WHOOP!" at the end, and a couple of times she coughed so hard that she threw up.  At that time there was a poster on the mdc Vaccinations forum who had a wealth of knowledge about all of the vaxes, diseases and treatments for them.  She was such a good resource. She wrote a huge book on the subject, which I have.  Anyway, her recommendation for megadoses of sodium ascorbate shut down that cough.  Maybe I will go back and look up exactly what stage she was in and how much SA I gave to dd... anyway, the SA worked and I am not afraid of pertussis anymore. 

It is the same with the other diseases.  I feel pretty confident that my kids won't get them, and confident that they can recover if they do.  We did seek out chicken pox for the older 2, and will hopefully get the chance to do the same when the 2 youngest are ready.

[mamabelle]

This about sums up the route we went as well (and I second that it definitely was the hardest parenting decision for us so far!). My husband and I both have science backgrounds and did as much research as we could. I do feel that sensitive or at-risk (not sure of the correct terms here, it's late and I'm sleepy!) babies should definitely be encouraged and supported in deciding not to vaccinate. Since our children have been so incredibly healthy, we've gone with selective and delayed vaccines much like Mal85 is describing.
 

Originally Posted by Mal85 

Oh man, this was probably the hardest parenting decision I made. I felt like either way I went was at least a little bit wrong.

I think vaccinations are great and necessary in some instances. I also think our immune systems are wonderful things and we should let them do their job most of the time. So, we went with a more selective route. When considering a specific vaccination, I ask myself these questions. "How dangerous is this disease for my baby to get? How likely is she to die from it?" There are actually a lot of vaccinations we did not get for DD1 (rotavirus, flu shots, vericella, Hep B, and more that I can't remember right now). She did get polio, HIB, DTaP, has started her MMR series. As for Hep B, I'll talk to her about that one once she hits adolescence and ask her if she wants to get it. If she makes it through childhood without getting chickenpox, I might suggest her getting the vaccination in adulthood. We delayed vaccinations with our first only because we had such a hard time deciding which ones she would be getting. I don't plan to delay them this time. She's due for a 2 month and she'll get some vaccinations at that appointment.

I think the most important thing here is to not feel pressured. You can always delay and decide later. Keep researching until you reach a decision you are comfortable with. 
 

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

My bottom line with this issue is to trust your instincts and if you're in doubt, delay!!  You can always vax later, but you can't take them back.

[SoCaliMommy]

 We  don't vax.  With Alex we stopped around age 3 so she was mostly vaxed.  Ryker he was vaxed til 4months old and nothing after.

Harlan hasn't had any vax's.  Harlan has his two month appointment on Tuesday and the Dr already knows that we wont be doing vaxs. The last time we saw her she talked about them but didn't push the issue.

[KaliShanti]

Non of my kids are vaccinated. I went back and forth on it for a while with #1, but after a lot of research, decided not to. Each child I've rethought it out and still came to the same conclusion. We simply are not comfortable with it at all. It's a heart / instinct thing as much as a research thing (because there are good cases for both sides).

[TalkToMeNow]

Here's a question, if anyone would care to give their input: what do you think about older, unvaxed kids giving VPDs like measles to small babies who haven't been vaxed yet? Is this a legitimate concern? My dds have three shots: mmr, chicken pox, and whooping cough. All of those were given after the age of 5 years. The mmr was because of my fear of them catching it and spreading it to a child so young that it could kill them. I felt confident that my girls could fight off the diseases, but there are those who cannot (babies, the immunocompromised). Chicken pox I gave when I finally decided they were not going to get it on their own! And whooping cough was their dad's thing during the outbreak a while back.

Anyway, I am still debating things this time. One of my issues is keeping others healthy by not having my kids spread VPDs. We live in a community; it's not just my own family I worry about. At the same time, I don't want to put my kids at risk for the greater good. It's such a tough call.

I do look at risk of them catching the disease and severity vs risk of vaccine reaction. But again, there's the protecting others aspect. Ugh! Does anyone else consider that part of the equation? I'm so confused!

[Paigekitten]

NAK, can't look up the page from the CDC but the MMR vaccine is a live virus vaccine and the measles component can be potentially spread to others for up to seven weeks after vaccination.  I don't know of ANY vaxing parents who worry about spreading measles to the immunocompromised or babies after the MMR, and I think unvaxed we are actually less likely to spread it. Same for other live virus but not as long. 

And pertussis is spread vaccinated or not so that's a moot point for me too.
 

Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow 

Here's a question, if anyone would care to give their input: what do you think about older, unvaxed kids giving VPDs like measles to small babies who haven't been vaxed yet? Is this a legitimate concern? My dds have three shots: mmr, chicken pox, and whooping cough. All of those were given after the age of 5 years. The mmr was because of my fear of them catching it and spreading it to a child so young that it could kill them. I felt confident that my girls could fight off the diseases, but there are those who cannot (babies, the immunocompromised). Chicken pox I gave when I finally decided they were not going to get it on their own! And whooping cough was their dad's thing during the outbreak a while back.
Anyway, I am still debating things this time. One of my issues is keeping others healthy by not having my kids spread VPDs. We live in a community; it's not just my own family I worry about. At the same time, I don't want to put my kids at risk for the greater good. It's such a tough call.
I do look at risk of them catching the disease and severity vs risk of vaccine reaction. But again, there's the protecting others aspect. Ugh! Does anyone else consider that part of the equation? I'm so confused!

[TalkToMeNow]

Hmmm... Interesting. Thanks for the response. I went to find some info on that as I am really looking for guidance. Everything I found said measles can not be spread from the someone who just had the vaccine. I couldn't find anything on the CDC's site, but I read the vaccine insert and a pamphlet somewhere. (On my phone, can't really link). I'll have to do some more research when it's not 1 am!

[FaithF]

We do not vax. DD1 had a single Hep B at 5 days old. It just felt so horrible to me. I mean I had went through an entire pregnancy being cautious with what I was putting in my body, not even having a Tylenol, then going through nearly 24 hours of unmedicated back labor because I was convinced it was the best thing for my baby. What the heck did I just let them inject her with??? I then decided to research vaccines and she hasn't received any since. I would say the best, most neutral book out there is The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears. I just re-read it recently and am still convinced that I've made the best choice for my children. I have worked with children on autism spectrum for the past 11 years and nearly all the mothers feel the shots contributed to their childs autism if not outright causing it. I think mothers intuition can be the most trusted thing there is. Many product inserts for the vaccines say that neurological impairment can occur as a serious side effect. Autism IS a neurological impairment!!! I realize the chances of serious side effects happening are small. But I feel I would rather take our chances with the actual diseases since the chances of actually catching them is also very small.

I also don't like the way vaccines are made. Aborted fetuses? Monkey kidney cells? Liquified mouse brain? Guinea pig fetus? Cow extract? What the heck is cow extract?? No thank you. Not willfully injecting that crap into my kids.  The ingredients are also worrisome. Formaldehyde. Aluminum. Mercury (in some flu shots). Blood. Again, no thanks. Many of these diseases are treatable and are not serious. They can become serious if one is immunocompromised to begin with. But my kids are healthy. Their immune systems are strong. They will get even stronger if they have to fight these diseases and in most cases they will gain permanent immunity to these diseases. If my kids don't catch natural chickenpox by the time they are 10 years old, I will let them decide if they want the shot. But I believe there is now an antiviral(?) treatment to lessen the length & severity of the disease. 

Am I scared of my kids getting these diseases? The 4 year old, not so much. I did go through a phase about a month ago where I worried big time about pertussis for the 2 month old. I did tons of research again. Neither of my kids are in daycare and the 2 month old is exclusively breastfed. The chances of catching it are so small. Breastmilk coats the mouth, nose, lungs and will destroy most things that are ingested. The vaccine itself does not guarantee immunity as it is only 80% effective, if even that. SA is a treatment I learned about on here, though I'm not sure if I could use it on the baby...

It came down to this. Vaccine reaction vs catching a VPD disease (which can both have the rare end result of death). If my kids caught a VPD, yeah, it would suck. But if they had a serious side effect to a vaccine? I could never forgive myself. Especially with knowing what I know. It would be the result of something I CHOSE to GIVE to my child. I'll take my chances.

So definitely continue researching & reading. Its your choice. And if that choice is an informed one and because you want the very best for your child (of course!) then it is automatically the right one. Definitely read The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears and use this website: http://www.nvic.org/

Edited by FaithF - 1/9/12 at 8:57am

[Paigekitten]

nm on my last post, i dont see the info where i thought i read it before and dont have the computer where i bookmarked it

although the mmr package insert on page five that trans mission of rubella is a theoretical possibility but hasn't been documented http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/ mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

[meesh933]

Originally Posted by FaithF 

 And if that choice is an informed one and because you want the very best for your child (of course!) then it is automatically the right one.

 Exactly that. There is no right or wrong answer here.

[TalkToMeNow]

Originally Posted by meesh933 

Originally Posted by FaithF 

 And if that choice is an informed one and because you want the very best for your child (of course!) then it is automatically the right one.

 Exactly that. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Agreed!

[TalkToMeNow]

Bump.

[wellforth]

I feel like whatever decision I make about vax is right or wrong solely dependent on the consequences that may happen.  If we choose to vax, and he has a reaction, I suck.  If we don't vax and he gets a preventable disease, I suck.  I hate making decisions like this.

I know that being breastfed and not in daycare will protect him a lot.  Pertussis was the scary one, and it's good to know that vitamin c can help so much. 

We ended the 2-month ped visit saying we'd begin selectively vaxing at 6 months, but then neglected to make an appointment.  My gut says NO VAXING.  But there's that little nag that asks me what if he gets something horrible, and I could have prevented it all with a shot?  I like what someone said, that the chances of getting any horrible disease is pretty rare, and who goes around thinking about all the bad but rare things that could happen?  I am going to think about that for a while.

So yep, hardest decision ever, and I don't want to make it.

carey

[birdhappy85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wellforth 

I feel like whatever decision I make about vax is right or wrong solely dependent on the consequences that may happen.  If we choose to vax, and he has a reaction, I suck.  If we don't vax and he gets a preventable disease, I suck.  I hate making decisions like this.

I know that being breastfed and not in daycare will protect him a lot.  Pertussis was the scary one, and it's good to know that vitamin c can help so much. 

Carey - This is exactly how I feel. I'm avoiding making a decision yet because I'm more uncomfortable with vaxing than not in infancy. That in itself is a decision, I suppose, since I'm delaying vaxes that probably should've been started already... but I know I can't take back vaxes once I let them enter my baby's body. I'm not prepared to deal with the worry that will accompany vaxing; I think I'll become a basketcase and regret it. Our pediatrician told me to read Dr. Sears' book and call her with a decision by now but I haven't gotten a chance to read it. She's going to be unhappy with me but too bad! Like you said, breastfed baby not in daycare... Yeah I'm not worried right now.

[birdhappy85]

The 4-month pediatrician visit is looming over my head now that it's so close. Sora sees her doctor on Thursday. We're going to have to talk about vaccinations again, and I know she's going to want a decision from me. I feel so stupid that I still haven't gotten a chance to read up on this issue since the 2-month visit. That's TWO MONTHS ago... but I've been busy and dealing with a lot, so I guess I'll just flat out tell her that. And to be honest, reading a book on vaccinations gives me anxiety so I've also been somewhat avoiding it. I kind of feel like the more informed I am, the more angst I'll have on this issue because I just don't trust either side of things. It feels like a total no-win situation to me, to vax or not to vax. *sigh*

At the same time, I also was thinking today that maybe we should just go ahead and vax so we can be done with this issue...

[wellforth]

Still with you here!  We told our ped that we're going to start vaxing at 6 months, but it wouldn't surprise me if when the time came, I changed my mind again.  It might just be that I'll wait in the hallway while dh stays with the baby when they come at him with needles.  I know I CANNOT watch.  Needles don't bother me, but I know I will bawl my eyes out.  I still feel so completely torn on this issue, even after reading Dr. Sears' vax book.  (My ped, btw, has zero respect for Dr. Sears.) 

I don't know, maybe saying something like, "I have not made the decision to get Sora vaccinated, but I will continue to think about it" might work?

Sigh is right.

carey

[Abraisme]

If you're not sure, wait.  You can always vaccinate later, but you can never take it back.  If you feel hassled by your pedi, find a new one that's more relaxed on the issue.  You can always start the vaccinations when she's older, that's perfectly reasonable too.

 

Originally Posted by birdhappy85 

The 4-month pediatrician visit is looming over my head now that it's so close. Sora sees her doctor on Thursday. We're going to have to talk about vaccinations again, and I know she's going to want a decision from me. I feel so stupid that I still haven't gotten a chance to read up on this issue since the 2-month visit. That's TWO MONTHS ago... but I've been busy and dealing with a lot, so I guess I'll just flat out tell her that. And to be honest, reading a book on vaccinations gives me anxiety so I've also been somewhat avoiding it. I kind of feel like the more informed I am, the more angst I'll have on this issue because I just don't trust either side of things. It feels like a total no-win situation to me, to vax or not to vax. *sigh*

At the same time, I also was thinking today that maybe we should just go ahead and vax so we can be done with this issue...

[LunaLady]

It is a hard decision. I think for me it came down to this: I would feel LESS bad about my son getting sick from a preventable disease than I would him getting sick from a vaccination I chose to give him. And, at least for me, I feel like most things that vaxs are designed to prevent are highly treatable things - so in the event my son DOES get something, we can have him treated for it. I just really feel that the likelyhood of him becoming seriously sick from a vax preventable illness is lower than him having some sort of reaction (either short or long term) to a vaccine. 

Just my two cents. Not trying to sway you either way - just trying to show the reasoning I used to make my own decision. 

[TalkToMeNow]

I'm going to give my experience here; maybe it will help. I finally made up my mind after ten years. Ten. When I was pregnant with dd1, the (in)famous Wakefield study was still very much present in everyone's mind. There had yet to be a lot of follow-up either way. The big fear was that MMR caused autism. And if that was possible, what could the other shots do? So I decided to wait to vaccinate until I had done more research and made up my mind. Years and years passed. I never made up my mind. I read articles in Mothering and listened to what other parents said, but that's not really research. So finally, after Jasper was born, I decided to figure out where I really stand.

Initially, I decided that the science supports vaccination. So I chose to vaccinate Jasper based on the Dr. Sears alternative schedule. Those first two were horrible; I was terrified that I was doing irreparable harm to my baby. He ended up having no reaction. I took him for the three month shots, and he had the reaction that 80% of babies do to the Pneumococcal vaccine: irritability and fussiness. He also had a mild fever, which is another common reaction. Dh and I started to worry, so I decided to really buckle down on my reading. 

First, I read the Sears book. I like that he comes right out and says he is pro-vaccine. And, contrary to his opposition, I do not think he states that his alternative schedules are better. He is trying to find a middle ground for parents who want to vaccinate but are afraid. I think this is a great thing. He gives a good run down of the diseases and vaccines, the risks and benefits, but he leaves the decision up to you. I think a lot of doctors do not like him because, from an epidemiological standpoint and barring negative reactions, having all babies vaccinated according to the standard schedule is the best way to prevent disease. I do find it a bit disturbing when he encourages those who do not vaccinate not to tell their friends the reasons why. He states that too many unvaccinated children would weaken the immunity of the herd. I'm not sure that the concept of relying on herd immunity is completely ethical. But that is another topic.

After the Sears book, I read two other recently published pro-vaccine books. These purported to examine both sides of the issue from an unbiased perspective and then form an opinion. I highly doubt that was the case with at least one, as the author is a specialist in infectious disease and vaccines and helped develop the Rotavirus vaccine. However, I found both books highly informative. After reading these, and a few more informal sources, and discussing this with my pediatrician, I now feel completely confident in my decision to vaccinate Jasper. It is a good feeling. 

Now, I am not at all trying to convert anyone to my position. I am simply sharing my path- how I was able to come to a decision I felt comfortable with. I think doing your own research really helps. If you read books and articles on the other side of the debate and are able to feel confident in your decision not to vaccinate, that is great. It is a completely individual decision! But I can't tell you how much better I feel now that I have made up my mind. I would highly recommend doing whatever you need to do to come to a decision.