anger with 5 month old's night wakings - Page 2

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by Frostalina 

well we just figured out that it's tongue tie! for some reason I wasn't getting e-mail alerts that people here were posting so I just logged on now and saw that many of you suggested this. my friend sent me a blog about it a few days ago and we checked and she has it! i have an appointment with an EMT (ear mouth throat) doctor tuesday to get it clipped, she also has lip tie. i hope any any anesthetic she gets isn't harmful--I haven't found a lot of info out there about this (unlike childbirth pain relief where I've read how it does affect baby and isn't recommended). Now how should I approach her Doctor who I believe should have found this? She was examined by a pediatrician when born, then I was taking her to a family dr, and then to another family dr--why did 3 doctor's not think of this?! Next visit, what should I say to the dr? I am angry--what would you recommend?

it should be interesting to see if this tongue clipping helps. sleeping is of course taking a lot of patience, it can take hours to finally put her down and have her stay asleep. once she is asleep, for these past few nights she has slept slightly longer than 1 or 2 hours, but then she often ends up totally awake and happy in the middle of the night...

The real issue is a lot of pediatricians do not no jack about Bfing....I would absolutely say something! Your Dr SHOULD be educated on Bfing since it's what babies are suppose to eat!
 

[lilikoi]

I am glad you found out. I have to say I am not surprised no one noticed. Eight different people saw my DD (lactation consultants, LLL leader, pediatrician and midwife). It was by posting on mothering.com that I found out she was tongue tie. I posted here (I was desperate because I had to start giving DD formula) and people really pushed me to get another opinion (but this time from a specialist on TTs). I found a pediatrician  who is also a certified lactation consultant and specializes in TTs. She spent a lot of time with us watching me nurse. She then clipped DD's tongue and things got so much better. But I am still angry today that it took 4.5 months and 8 different people. The worse thing was all the advice I got over the months that made me feel so shitty, like I wasn't trying hard enough. It sent me into a mild depression. I just think people are not experienced enough when the problem is not obvious. I hope things improved for you soon!

Originally Posted by Frostalina 

well we just figured out that it's tongue tie! for some reason I wasn't getting e-mail alerts that people here were posting so I just logged on now and saw that many of you suggested this. my friend sent me a blog about it a few days ago and we checked and she has it! i have an appointment with an EMT (ear mouth throat) doctor tuesday to get it clipped, she also has lip tie. i hope any any anesthetic she gets isn't harmful--I haven't found a lot of info out there about this (unlike childbirth pain relief where I've read how it does affect baby and isn't recommended). Now how should I approach her Doctor who I believe should have found this? She was examined by a pediatrician when born, then I was taking her to a family dr, and then to another family dr--why did 3 doctor's not think of this?! Next visit, what should I say to the dr? I am angry--what would you recommend?

it should be interesting to see if this tongue clipping helps. sleeping is of course taking a lot of patience, it can take hours to finally put her down and have her stay asleep. once she is asleep, for these past few nights she has slept slightly longer than 1 or 2 hours, but then she often ends up totally awake and happy in the middle of the night...

[Frostalina]

Things didn't go very well the the ENT doctor. He didn't think it was worth fixing her tongue and lip ties and thinks that I must just have low calorie milk and should give her formula. He thinks that as long as she can latch that it's not worth getting surgery. He said for the surgery they would have to completely put her under and that would cost thousands and not be worth it. I think that she has a bad latch and inefficient milk transfer and that he just doesn't have much knowledge on this.
I got a pump from the pharmacy so I can see if I can pump some huge bottles of milk for her and give them to her before bed to see if it helps her sleep more. I also could try meeting with the lactation consultant. and maybe make an appt. with a holistic dr  in hopes that I finally find a dr that is more supportive of breastfeeding.

[huntergirlnc21]

 I'm sorry that your ENT was so unhelpful. I would get a second opinion from another doctor (or pediatric dentist) if possible. General anesthetic is rarely necessary from the research I've done online regarding tongue ties - even ,posterior ones. My DD is having a laser lip and tongue tie revision performed next week in Albany, NY by Dr. Kotlow (www.kiddsteeth.com).  We are in NC but we've had enough trouble over the past 4.5 months that even an 11 hour drive for the possibility of relief is worth it. And Dr. Kotlow is highly recommended by many on this board.  

Like you, we have a lot of sleep issues (I seriously could have written your first post), in addition to fussiness, reflux, lots of nursing during the daytime too - and this kid is seriously tearing my nipples up with her horrible, shallow latch and I've had enough of the blisters, plugged ducts and mastitis. All of this is compounding my PPD also...so even though her FP/pediatrician (my cousin!) was very dismissive of having any kind of revision, saying "she's gaining weight" (albeit slower than I would like) and "she'll grow out of the ties", "can you just bottle feed her?", we decided it was best to just go ahead and get it done instead of waiting for possible speech issues to rear their head, problems with solids, or dental decay issues.  I hope there will be some short term benefit too, but if we can avoid the potential long-term problems it'll be worth it. 

[homemademom]

Sadly, so many doctors are ignorant of how a too tight or thick frenulum can destroy nursing.  I dont know where you live, but check these links: http://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml We actually travelled out of state to have the procedure done.  Good luck and don't give up!

[AnkaJones]

He's wrong.  There are a few physicians and dentists who "get it", and unfortuantely the rest of them really don't get the breastfeeding thing.  The likelyhood that you have "low calorie breastmilk" is about nil.  I'd network with your local LLL and/or IBCLCs (even if they aren't so local... call around to the nearest major cities, even if they're six hours away) and figure out who it is that they refer to when the have a posterior tongue tie (not because your child has a posterior tongue tie, but because whoever they refer to for that will be able to do the higher level stuff, and is probably very pro-breastfeeding).  Does that make sense?

Anka

 

Originally Posted by Frostalina 

Things didn't go very well the the ENT doctor. He didn't think it was worth fixing her tongue and lip ties and thinks that I must just have low calorie milk and should give her formula. He thinks that as long as she can latch that it's not worth getting surgery. He said for the surgery they would have to completely put her under and that would cost thousands and not be worth it. I think that she has a bad latch and inefficient milk transfer and that he just doesn't have much knowledge on this.
I got a pump from the pharmacy so I can see if I can pump some huge bottles of milk for her and give them to her before bed to see if it helps her sleep more. I also could try meeting with the lactation consultant. and maybe make an appt. with a holistic dr  in hopes that I finally find a dr that is more supportive of breastfeeding.

[Frostalina]

well i went to get a 2nd opinion from my friend who used to be a pediatrican, and she agreed with the ENT dr that it wasn't so bad. I tried using my new electric medela pump but was only able to get a few drops out--if my baby isn't much better than a pump than no wonder she has to always eat. I guess there are probably posts about this in the breastfeeding forum.

[lilikoi]

Don't give up! Go see a specialist on tongue ties like the previous poster said. I know it is exhausting trying to find people to help, but it will pay off. 

[homemademom]

While you're figuring out your baby's issues you're going to have to work hard on your supply, meaning pumping every 3 hours, taking domperidone, etc.  It's an ugly cycle--baby can't transfer milk properly, so your supply goes down, which means the baby gets even less, and is hungry and miserable. I'm not sure what your baby is eating right now, but there are milk-sharing groups on facebook (human milk 4 human babies) if you want breastmilk, and of course, formula is another option. I just want to let you know that whatever you do, feeding the baby IS the priority.  The other thing about tongue tie is that it's so individual. It may not seem like a big deal (my baby's tt certainly *seemed* insignificant upon physical examination), but the interplay between the mom's breast anatomy, the baby's mouth anatomy (including a high arched palate) and a slightly too tight frenulum can really mess up breastfeeding.  In any case, I would feed the baby, work hard on getting your supply up, and find a tt specialist.  Best of luck!

[Frostalina]

the thing is, although I feed my baby more frequently than other people (not every few hours but on demand, usually a few times an hour), she is very happy and developing on time, so I think she is getting enough and the dr's just give you more trouble when your baby is an outlier on the lower side of the growth curves instead of the upper. For example, they tell me her brain isn't going to develop because she is on low calorie milk and only in the 3rd percentile, but they would never worry about a baby in the 97th %ile. Someone has to have a small baby!

[cristeen]

Keep making calls.  It took me 2 weeks to find a pediatric dentist to clip DS' lip tie.  The ENTs wanted to put him under general anesthesia (this was at 6 weeks old).  The ped dentist put a topical pain reliever on, clip, done.  When I called they asked if it was affecting BF, and when I said yes they fit me in the same day. 

Tongue tie can be more involved depending, but keep calling.  You may have to push for it.  Tell them that their opinion is noted, but that you still want the surgery done because it is most definitely affecting her.  See what they say.   They have expressed their opinion, but you are still the mother, the one that has to deal with the problems. 

Alternatively, you can call your ped's office and ask for a referral for a tongue tie clip, find out who they send you to.  I know here there is 1 doc who everyone refers tongue ties to, and we're in a major metro area with a Children's Hospital.  But that doc won't do lip ties at all (which is why we had to find a dentist to do it). 

HTH

[Frostalina]

i'm just not sure if she needs it, since she has survived 6 months on breastmilk so she has managed.

nights are terrible though and getting worse, every time i put her down she screams until i feed her again so she never lets me sleep. i am so desperate that i let her cry but if she does manage to fall asleep on her own, she still wakes up within an hour.

[sosurreal09]

My DD was always in the 10th percentile and I got lots of crap for it. She nursed round the clock too and never slept. It is challenging for sure! Hang in there and no you don't make
"low calorie milk" WTH is that? Just try to eat fatty foods yourself and keep up with your nutrition. When she starts solids only do fatty things none of those carby puff Gerber crap...do meat and avacado, banana etc...

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by Frostalina 

i'm just not sure if she needs it, since she has survived 6 months on breastmilk so she has managed.

nights are terrible though and getting worse, every time i put her down she screams until i feed her again so she never lets me sleep. i am so desperate that i let her cry but if she does manage to fall asleep on her own, she still wakes up within an hour.

Honestly, I think you're amazing that you've lasted this long with so little sleep.  My first 3 weeks were like that and I was ready to put him on some stranger's doorstep.  As soon as we started supplementing him so he got a full belly he started sleeping better.  If she isn't transferring milk well then she's never getting the full tummy feeling, and that would be why she's constantly wanting to eat.  Either getting her clipped and working with her so she can transfer milk better, or supplementing her would probably get you some more sleep. 

I will say though that as someone who had to have a tie clipped in my 20s, it would have been much easier, and far less painful if my parents had done it when I was a baby.  By the time I had it done they could only do a partial clip and the frenulum was so thick that it took several cuts (with surgical scissors) to get through it.  I was in pain for weeks. 

[CMMMMM]

You are an amazing mom! It's so hard when your baby is so needy and you're doing all you can. Good work! Life without good sleep is so challenging, and it's hard to deal with so much conflicting and harsh advice from everyone you know. FYI, LLL has a national 800 number for help, and you can also call a LLL leader from outside your area and they will help you by phone. It sounds like you should keep trying to get someone to clip your baby's tounge tie. I think it would really help. Also, side-lying nursing took a long time for us to figure out, but is totally amazing now that we've got it down. I'd suggest that you keep trying that maybe once a week or so to see if you can eventually master it. You can also work on nursing in a carrier. Once we got Ergo nursing down it was great. Your dedication to your baby is really wonderful. Keep working at the feeding issues and other things and it will get easier.

[amama2011]

Sorry if I'm going to repeat what has been said so far - I've read the first post and first few replies but do not have time to read the entire thread. I had somewhat similar situation with night feedings with my DS when she was about 3 months old. She would feed for hours, and it was almost impossible to put her down once she was asleep - she would wake up and would cry. I was often falling asleep in seating position while holding her at my breast, and in the mornings was getting up exhausted. During the day my daughter would also nurse for long times with very short stretches between feedings. She is now almost 5 months but during the day she will not nap other than on breastfeeding pillow after I nurse her.

What I did, and what eventually helped:

1. I started expressing milk after her last feeding before going to bed so that I would have a little bit extra to top up after she would eat from the breast at night. This was pretty difficult to do since I could not express much (I could get only 15 mil. when started doing this), and also I would have to stay awake after putting her into bed instead of getting some sleep. The positive thing was that after a few nights I noticed that my milk supply increased, and also she started falling asleep pretty quickly when I started topping up the feedings with expressed milk. I would feed her first from both breasts until I noticed that she slowed down, then would give her the bottle, and then would put her back to breast just so she would fall asleep. I also bought a heating pad and would warm up her bassinet while I was breastfeeding, and would put her down on a warm sheet so she would not wake up from change of temperature.  

2. Even though I was able to express enough milk for nights to get her to fall sleep (2 ounces for each night) I felt that it might not have been enough for her to feel really full and gain weight well. At her 4-month doctor appointment she was at 50th percentile on height and almost at the bottom of the range on weight. I decided to supplement with formula, and do not regret it. I do it only for night feedings, and only once a night (her first wake up). When she wakes up second time my breasts are really full so that's enough for her to eat and get full quickly. She generally wakes up every 3 hours, eats for 0.5 hour and falls asleep. I figured supplementing was not going to do any harm since I still give her all breastmilk I can but giving her formula allowed her to grow better (she did gain weight since I started supplementing) and it definitely helped her to sleep better. 

[amama2011]

Somehow my message was posted twice so just deleting a duplicate.