Why can't I figure out the "right" way to feed my kid? - Page 3

[tidepool]

I don't know if this has come up yet, but something to consider is that it's actually difficult for children to digest vegetables because their digestive systems are not yet mature.  Vegetables are actually quite challenging to digest and this may be a reason that children so often don't like them.  We live in a culture that screams "eat your veggies" but do you know there isn't a single scientific study showing that there is any benefit?  And many traditional cultures that were very health ate little to no vegetables - the masai for instance, known for their physical magnificence eat only milk, meat and blood (I doubt your daughter would enjoy that either!)  

One way to make veggies more digestible and appealing for children and everyone is to add fat.  The vitamin matter in veggies is only digestible with the addition of fat soluble vitamins  -- that's why traditionally they're served with butter, cream sauce, salad dressing etc.  My husband is a researcher and a health care practitioner so if you want to you can find links to studies about all this stuff on his blog http://chriskresser.com/

I don't know if you eat meat, but eating grass-fed animal foods including eggs and dairy if you can tolerate it is a good way of essentially getting the benefits of eating green food - it just cycles through the animal first and is more nutrient dense than eating vegetables.  And kids tend to love at least some meat, milk or eggs. 

[Mummoth]

Originally Posted by FiveZip 

I learned a lot by reading this thread and thought I'd share a theory that my acquaintance told me.  The theory is very close to what one poster mentioned.

She is a farm manager.  Her theory, she says, is definitely not proven, but she believes kids don't eat vegetables because of human genetics and instincts.  When we were cave people, we had no grocery stores to tell us what foods were safe to eat.  Kids had to learn from their parents what foods to eat, just like animal moms teach their babies which ones to eat.  Usually, poisonous plants are associated with bitter tastes.  Poisonous plants (and animals) are usually bright colored, too (pretty colored mushrooms?  Stay away!)  Therefore, it is a natural defense mechanism to avoid bitter foods until they are old enough to know which food is safe or not.  Until then, young children prefer plain foods and generally white colored foods, and of course, sweeter tastes because that is always safe in nature.  This totally made sense to me.  Most toddlers do prefer fruits over vegetables.  My DD is 3 and she definitely prefers plainer, whiter foods, and fruits over vegetables.  Before 2.5 years old, she devoured any kind of vegetable, including leafy greens like kale.  Now, she devours only potatoes, cauliflower, oatmeal, quinoa, ww bread, ww pasta, brown rice, onions, yogurt, tofu, beans...... all plain and whitish.  She will eat other vegetables, but they are now at the bottom of her list and eats very little. 

One thing that helped my DD eat greens was peanut sauce, like Thai restaurants. I try to make a plainer version at home, mixing only a few ingredients and a lot less sugar. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

What all of you are doing sounds great.  Having kids try them and talk about them seems to be the key.  I liked the post about the "thank you bites."  I was having a hard time balancing not forcing DD to eat particular foods, and also teaching her to be thankful for the food/to the cook who took the time to make it (me!)   After reading the thread, I feel more relaxed about it.  Thanks everyone!

Your farm manager friend is right, and it has been proven! 

[FiveZip]

Mummoth,

THAT is awesome!  Thank you for sharing that footage! 

[Mummoth]

You're welcome! I watched that with my picky eater a while back, and she was like yep, yep, yep with all the points and "SEE?!" at me, LOL!

[Chicky2]

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 

I promise, I'm not being snarky!   Just wondering what you would do if you had someone visiting (adults, other children or even your own children) that simply doesn't like what you serve (they have had it before and don't like it).  Or, that have a personal difficulty with a certain food (don't eat certain meats or fish) or have sensory issues. 

I can't stand pureed foods such as applesauce, I don't care how it's spiced.  And, I will gag upon having a bite of steak in my mouth.  I won't eat celery raw, as it makes me dizzy (seriously), as does cumin, unless it is cooked in a dish.  MSG bothers me to the point my jaw locks (which certainly halts any complaints about a food!).  So, you see, even as an adult, I would be saying no to certain foods you might serve and would not taste, them no matter what your rules say! 

Also, what happens if they flat-out refuse to taste something?? 

By the way, very cool that you forage for wild foods and grow your own!  We have a large organic orchard and garden.  Nothing like knowing where your food comes from and how it was grown!! 

House rules only apply to our family and to any children staying for longer than just a sleepover.  If your children were at my house and you were with them, I would of course defer to your parenting.

We DO have sensory issues in the house, as I described in my previous post.  We handle them as they come up, but they are few and far between.  What would we do if a child refused?  Play it by ear, honestly.  I described what my dh did w/one of the kids and beets.  I really believe the reason we have few problems is because of the way we've presented food from the beginning (and yes, partly genetic).  We have always been huge communicators, esp. when it comes to food.  We have to eat to survive and we feel that it is our job (esp. mine since I am the sahp) to make that food fun and tasty for all.  But I am also human and have a large family.  I will not be a short order cook.  But we are very, very reasonable, I believe.  We would never expect our children to eat something we wouldn't eat!  We talk alot about how foods taste, describing them and all.  Like beet greens are more earthy tasting than, say, spinach-that kind of thing.   I also believe peer pressure to be a fabulous thing when getting kids to be more receptive to new foods.  Kids will come to my house and because we offer so much variety, and eat it ourselves, they are usually pretty willing to try things.  9 times out of 10 they also *gasp!* find that they like it.

The fact that our children care for animals each day that eventually become our meat begets gratefulness.  They respect the animals for both the fact that they become our food, but also because their "products" nurture our other foods.  When our kids clean out the rabbitry and put the rabbit poo on our garden beds, they understand that our vegetables and fruits will grow better and faster.  Going out and picking veggies from the garden, or going out and sweating while you pick fruits, then helping to process everything makes one that much more eager to try the finished product.  When the kids get out on a cold winter morning, milk bucket in hand, they know that they can then come in and have nice warm, fresh goat milk on their oatmeal.  Makes it that much sweeter.  Coupla bee stings?  No problem.  The difference in the way the honey tastes vs. grocery store "honey" is worth it.

Originally Posted by liberal_chick 

My kiddos always have the option of a PB&J if they don't like what we're having.  I tend to make meals that has at least one component that everyone likes, though.  If I make pork chops, corn and broccoli, I know ds1 will go nuts with the pork chops, ds2 will tear down the corn, and ds3 will eat at least 2 servings of broccoli.  We also have a 3 bite rule, but it is very no fuss.  They eat 3 medium sized bites, make their declaration, and we go on.  If I make soup or something that I know ds1 (my pickiest eater) won't eat, he can always have a PB&J.  He's old enough now that he can make one for himself, even.  I refuse to make my kids go to bed hungry.  My family was a "take it or leave it and be hungry" family growing up and a "clean your plate if you want dessert" family and I have major issues with food and my weight now.

I've personally never seen one of my kids go to bed hungry.  If they are really honestly hungry they will eat more of their supper in the first place, I would think.  Or they can certainly go back later and finish their supper and then have seconds on anything they wish.  Also, we don't offer dessert except on special occasions.  We'd rather the meal itself be the focus, not the possibility of getting sweets.

Originally Posted by bellymoon 

Speaking of gratitude…

I think that letting nutrition rule our table 100% to the point of forcing anyone to eat what’s there just because of the nutrients is missing the point of enjoying good food. Otherwise, why not just take supplements and forget about food entirely. I’d like my children to appreciate good food, not be stressed out every time they have to make a decision about what to eat. Stress, especially around eating and food – the things that ought to be nourishing us -- cannot be healthful, even if the molecular make-up of the food is nutritious. Meanwhile, true taste can help guide us nutritionally as well. Let’s face it, you can’t call a Twinkie or even a bag of potato chips real food, and truly they don’t have much actual flavor. Food from good soil can be treated as a sacred thing that can be approached with gratitude, thanks, and reverence. There is a world of flavor out there in fresh, good, real food (very difficult to find in a regular grocery store these days!). Study after study of school gardens shows that if children are offered the chance to taste, for tastes sake, without pressure, that they can discover and appreciate the diverse array of flavors that are available to us. (not just sweet, salty, and everything else) I imagine this works at home just as well.

These are just some of the great books addressing this issue of taste and quality regarding food.

In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan

Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver

The Edible Schoolyard by Alice Waters

Also, for kids, don’t forget Lillian Hoban’s “Bread and Jam for Francis.” Francis had the pb&j option and it worked out just fine! J

Real food is so fantastic.  But even for those people who are picky I think the fantastic flavors can be pulled out even more and be made to be tasty to all kinds of pallets.  Like w/roasting veggies.  The extra sweetness that can bring out in a vegetable is sometimes all that is needed to make a convert. 

We also add real fats.  Lard that I rendered myself, or bacon fat saved from good quality bacon.  Or duck fat added to roasted veggies is divine!

Originally Posted by journeymom 

I gagged on fresh tomatoes when I was little. Couldn't stand them.  These were fresh from my dad's garden, too, not nasty grocery store tomatoes.  My dad was aghast and incensed and took it personally and weirdly thought I was gagging on purpose.  It was a real bummer because frankly I wanted to enjoy them like my big sisters and brother did, and here my dad was turning something that was beyond my control into a moral character issue.     Fortunately my mom didn't make a big deal of it.  For a while she didn't waste precious fresh tomatoes on my salad, but eventually she had me try a slice slathered with Miracle Whip. I know, gross huh?  I grew up with Miracle Whip and loved it, and it did the job. I've loved fresh tomatoes ever since. 

There are plenty of foods that I didn't like when I was a kid that I enjoy now.  And that's what I tell my kids when they find mushrooms in the beef stew.  "You don't like it now, but you might love it when you're an adult. Just pick around it and don't complain."

It's interesting to me that regardless of what attitude or tone towards children the poster has, the solutions here on this thread are mostly the same: try it.  Some recommend you do so with love and respect, some recommend you do so mindful of parental authority.  But it's basically the same advice. 

I had always heard/been told that a persons taste buds mature as they get older.  Now (thanks to the video posted) I know that it is the sense of smell, rather than the taste buds that mature.  This is why I ask my kids to continue trying something they previously didn't care for.  Or because I've prepared it in a different way.  Heck, up until recently I thought I didn't care for beets and now I'm cooking them weekly and eating them for lunch!  I KEPT TRYING THEM!

Originally Posted by journeymom 

Lol! Blackmail might be, "Daughter, if you don't eat your vegetables I'm going to show the kindergarten class that photo of 3 y.o. you nekkid in the wading pool!"

I have that same rule that you do.  When ds asks if he can have a slice of cake a lot of times I require him to have a small piece of fruit first.  And he does, no problem! He likes fruit!  I suppose it could be called bribery? I don't think so, though.

I feel that bribery has it's place in parenting.  When the benefits outweigh the risks, such was with trying a perfectly healthy food.  But really I don't even care if someone thinks it is bribery or coercion, or whatever.  Why does it matter if the end result is something that is good for the child?  Kids are pretty darn smart.  They can certainly recognize when something is good for them, and generally, ime, accept it and go with it.
 

Originally Posted by Just1More 

I've been thinking about this thread all afternoon, and it occurs to me that all this "trying not to make an issue about food" is totally making an issue of it.  It's being put in the kids' court, and it's this monster for everyone involved.   Food isn't an issue here.  I don't care if you eat, and I don't care if you don't eat.  It's your body.

BUT...I'm not a short order cook either.  We eat what we have.  Usually, that's meat and veggies, and light carbs.  Sometimes it's pancakes.  Sometimes it's milkshakes (yep, for supper).  I don't feel like I'm holding out on the kids.  They eat what we eat.  We changed our eating habits years ago, and so, mostly, there isn't junk sitting around to be had.  If there is, well, we all eat it. 

So, it's not about "not letting them" or whatever, it's just facts of life.  I had x dollars to spend at the store to feed 6 people.  I have to make sure that we aren't hungry, or getting sick, so this is what there is, folks.  And, again, when dd1 wants to go to Sonic, sometimes we try to make it happen. 

Food just doesn't have to be an issue. 

Exactly.  We don't have all the $ in the world to spend and I feel we make due very well with what we've got.  Our kids understand that, and understand that is "part" of the reason we do things the way we do re:homesteading and foraging.  Obviously there are about a million other good things that come out of it too.
 

[Chicky2]

Originally Posted by Mummoth 

Your farm manager friend is right, and it has been proven! 

I used to have a friend who gagged when she tasted something sweet.  I thought it was the strangest thing.  She actually didn't have taste buds for sweet!  Most people would think that would be great as far as weight issues, lol.  It actually made things really challenging in the kitchen when she lived here for a time. 

[journeymom]

That was a neat video, from one of my favorite TV scientists.