A Tangled Web; Stemming outside influences, ...

[QueenSheba'sMom]

Hi all,

I haven't posted here in a while, but it was such a source of sanity when my kids were younger!

Some of my frustration has to do with the amount of time I spend away from my kids and the lack of control that goes along with that. I work full time out of the home and am in my final year of a masters program, so I don't spend as much time with them as I wish I could.

When we spend time together, we do mostly active things; hiking, rowing, swimming, ... I limit the tv to a bare minimum. We listen to music that we all agree on. We eat a lot of fruits and veggies and healthy stuff. BUT when they are away from me, they hear the crap radio music (they know all the lyrics to Kesha from the bus rides, for example). They are exposed to a constant stream of junk food, and they aren't very active. The smaller amount of time I spend with them makes it harder to push against these tides, and often leads me to feel like I'm constantly nagging or complaining. My girls try to convince me to listen to the radio with them (but I can't stand it, really), to watch tv with them (I really hate the sitcoms), and beg me to take them out for fast food (which I never have and never will). They've recently become very anti-veggie (difficult for a mostly veg household). I worry that my pushback leads them to assume I'm out of touch more than it leads them to keep their minds open.

I'm especially worried about my 10 year old. She has gained quite a bit of weight in recent years, which is natural, because she's growing. I wouldn't be too concerned with how much she eats, but I am concerned, because she is so focused on the less healthy foods. I wouldn't mind her eating some junk, but primarily junk? Ugh! We don't really keep junk foods in the house, which seems to be an unending source of frustration for the kids, and then they focus on the least healthy of everything (e.g. eating the mac n cheese and rejecting the veggies, eating veggie chicken nuggets, but drowning them in a sauce, ...). The combination of the focus on less healthy food, the dramatic increase in appetite, and the increased rejection of all things active on her part worries me. She goes back and forth between being worried about her growing belly and feeling okay, because other kids in her class are also really big. She just had a dr appt, and she's in the normal limits, but very close to overweight. That worried her.

I've had lifelong issues with my weight. I was overweight as a kid. I was teased a lot for it, and I was very sedentary into adulthood. Since my kids have been born, I've discovered a love for being active. I now like to be active every chance I get, and I eat healthy, but I'm still overweight. I'm trying to focus on just being healthy and loving myself as I am, and I want to pass that on to my kids. But I feel like I'm sending mixed messages. One minute we talk about loving ourselves and our bodies, and the next I'm getting frustrated about more junk coming home in their backpacks or purchased by their dad. One minute I'm preparing a single scoop of ice cream for everyone, and the next I'm discovering a slew of candy wrappers and second guessing the wisdom of the ice cream.

I want to keep my kids rooted in nature, active, healthy. I try to tell them to drink water for thirst and juice or soda for taste or to eat healthy stuff for hunger and the other stuff for taste. But I have lived my life in a tangled web of nutritional and diet based rules and eating disorders. I don't want to pass that along. I don't want to be dismissed as a nag. But I don't want Kesha and candy to win out.

Any advice or words of wisdom?

[whatsnextmom]

For starters, if your kids are asking you to listen to the radio WITH them, watch TV shows they like WITH them by all means do so! They are inviting you into their world and you'd be a fool not to take advantage of the opportunity. Believe me, they do stop asking. I don't mean you have to do nothing BUT their stuff but if you want them to listen to you, you need to listen to them. Not everything on the radio is bad. It may not be your style but lots of it is just plain old bubble gum pop. The songs that go against your beliefs are opportunities to discuss what it is your family actually believes in.... not preachy but a chance to ask questions and get them thinking. If you just dismiss everything they are interested in, they will have no respect for your interests either.

As for the food, even if they get nothing but junk from outside sources, I'd continue to model balance at home. If you turn your house into the extremity trying to counteract the rest of their influences, they'll see no purpose in following your path. If you model a healthy diet which can include a scoop of ice cream and a fast food run on occasion. they will grow to respect and understand it more.

For activity, why not try to combine some of the things they love with movement. Do you have a Wii? "Just Dance" is a ton of fun for the whole family and it blends "oldies" and new pop. That might be a fun addition to the great outside activities you already do plus "speak" to their interest a little more.

[QueenSheba'sMom]

That makes a lot of sense. I really like your suggestion to try to be balanced at home, not to make the home balance the outside world. That's a nice way of thinking about it.

We do have a wii, and they did just start doing Just Dance. That's a fab idea!! Thank you!

[chaimom]

I'm not very interested in my kids' music or tv shows or video games either.  But I'm honored that want to share it with me.  Even if you don't like it, I think you should reconsider your attitude about it.  You're not watching the shows for entertainment, obviously-- you're watching them to bond with your kids. They're letting you into their lives and passions.  That's a privilege I hope you take advantage of.

As for the food.  Where are they getting all the junk you say they get?  A babysitter?  School?  I would try to interfere with the junk-food source.  As for home, just make healthy meals and provide healthy snacks.  Talk about "sometimes" foods.  That's the best you can do.  You might also consider encouraging your dd to take up a sport or maybe your whole family could join a fitness facility. 

[Imakcerka]

I don't think watching tv and listening to their kind of music is the best thing.  I think talking to them about the sometimes... well more often than not negative messages brought about by mainstream media is important.  Listening to Keisha... eh, right her music isn't positive.  Her music tells you to go to the club and get drunk... and fuq whatever you want.  It's gross music.  I get liking the beat to a song.  I'm that way.  But honestly talking to her about the crappy message in that song is important.  Watching her shows and listening to her music like you're trying to understand her is like trying to be the "COOL" mom.  

You're already modeling a good lifestyle, now you need to talk about it honestly with her.  Yeah she likes her junk food.  Teach her what her body is about and what food is really for.  My DD's are 9 and 7, we've always allowed a little junk but pressed the importance of feeding the body what the body really needs to run properly.  They're very interested in a healthy body and limit the junk on their own now.  DD1 has a sweet tooth so it's a struggle for her but she hates the way she feels when she has too much junk in her diet.  It's also important to help them understand that some junk foods will mess with their moods.  Understanding food is really a big deal.  

[Linda on the move]

I'm going to go against the grain here. I had a therapist who worked a lot with adolescents tell me that often when parents make an appointment for their kid who they are very, very worried about (or they wouldn't be making the appointment), the usually say that the kid won't talk. The kid is no longer speaking to their parents, so the parents are reasonable sure that the kid won't speak to a therapist either.

But the kids always end up talking... because the therapist is willing to talk about what the kid is interested in. What they listen to, what they watch, what videos they like on YouTube.

At some point, we get a choice with our kids. We can talk to them about the things they are interested in, or we can let our insurance pay for someone else to connect with them. Demanding that our teens share all our values and likes and dislikes is not a way to have a close relationship with a teen.

Do you want to be right, or do you want your kid to talk to you?

(I do really limit how much I watch/listen to some things though because they give me a head ache!)

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

  Watching her shows and listening to her music like you're trying to understand her is like trying to be the "COOL" mom.  

It's not about being "cool" lol, it's recognizing that a child who is asking mom to watch a show with her or listen to a song she really likes is actively trying to connect. That should be encouraged, not dismissed. Trying to be "cool" is when you allow activities and behaviors that you know are inappropriate fearing your child may not like you if you say "no." Allowing your child to choose the radio station once in awhile, reading a book they recommend even if it's not a style you love, watching a movie they picked out... that's just what you do in a family. Certainly, I wouldn't want to live in a house where my interests were considered unsavory and to be kept in my room. Why would my kids want to live in a house where they couldn't share the things they like? 

I'll be honest, I've loved a lot of what the kids introduced including David Garrett, Just Dance, newer musicals and Dr. Who. They've loved a lot of what DH and I have introduced too. We don't like all the same things but we can at least respect each other's choices. I'm pretty sure my teenager wouldn't say I'm "cool" because of that lol.

[Imakcerka]

I get what you're saying, I'll file that away for when I need that tid bit to get me through.  Can't you just tickle them til they talk?  It works for a 9 yr old?  Oh that's torture.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by QueenSheba'sMom 

 My girls try to convince me to listen to the radio with them (but I can't stand it, really), to watch tv with them (I really hate the sitcoms), and beg me to take them out for fast food (which I never have and never will). They've recently become very anti-veggie (difficult for a mostly veg household). I worry that my pushback leads them to assume I'm out of touch more than it leads them to keep their minds open.

If you are asking them to keep their minds open, then it will serve you well to do the same. You may not like everything you hear on the radio, but probably there will be one or two songs or bands that you enjoy. You may not like sitcoms, but there might be a funny line or sight gag that makes you laugh or a reference that catches your interest. Sharing those experiences will build some mutual good will.  

My DS has been playing in hard core punk rock bands for years now. He knows that it isn't my kind of music, but we talk about it. I reminisce about the 1970's and 80's and tell him what it was like when the Sex Pistols and the Ramones first arrived. He tells me about the shows he plays and the other bands and plays Youtube clips and CDs for me. If I want to see him perform, I have to spend time in dank, crowded clubs - not my favourite scene at all. But I love watching how much fun he has on stage and how the audience cheers for him and his bandmates. I would miss so much of his life if I wasn't willing to keep an open mind about the things he loves. 

ETA: And NO ONE in those clubs could possibly mistake me for someone who is "cool", LOL!! 

[nd_deadhead]

My sons (twins, age 17) love heavy metal music, I do not, and they know it. Sometimes I'll listen to a song or two that they really like - and often they'll find a song on a CD that has more elements I do like, and less I don't, and I appreciate that. They appreciate classic rock, so that's what we listen to together.

Respecting each other's tastes is important - and it's important for kids to find their own likes and dislikes. Honestly, how many of us loved the music our parents listened to? In our family, we take turns choosing movies - I watch stuff I wouldn't necessarily choose, and so do they, but usually if we're going to watch together, we try to find middle ground. I do watch shows they like, and we do talk about what we see - some sitcoms have situations that spark terrific family discussions about sex, drugs, self-esteem.

One of my sons asked me, a year or so ago, if it bothered me that he listened to music with obnoxious lyrics (devil worship, who knows what). I told him no - I am confident that his moral compass is well-set, and I odn't believe listening to that music is going to turn him into a devil worshiper.

As for the food issue - I understand your concerns. I struggled with my weight as a kid too, and I want my kids to develop healthy eating habits. But making food into a power struggle is going to backfire. If you keep junk food to a minimum in the house, and model and discuss healthy choices, and don't make a big deal out of everything they put in their mouths, I think they'll be fine.

[enkmom]

It sounds to me like they are asking for some control over their own lives.  You decide what (or if) they watch TV, you decide what family activities get done (the ones you like), you decide the music, you decide what everyone eats.  Everyone wants to know that they are listened to and that their opinions matter.

I realize that others feel differently, but if my kids were begging for fast food we might have family dinner once a month at McDonald's.  There are some healthy options there, but if they eat the Big Mac value meal, it's only once a month.  Maybe each kid could choose a "treat" when you shop, with the understanding that it is theirs to eat as they choose, but when it is gone, it is gone.

Finally, when your children invite you to watch a program or listen to a song with them, DO IT!  These are wonderful moments to connect together.  I can't count the number of times that we sat down and started watching something and then stayed talking long after the show was over.  These relaxed moments when you are all together really makes kids tend to talk, and you learn so much about their lives that you may otherwise never hear.  These years really go by so fast, you don't want to look back and feel that you missed opportunities for closeness.

[QueenSheba'sMom]

I really appreciate all of this feedback and all of this great discussion!

Our situation is a bit out of the ordinary, with two parents working full time, often opposing schedules, and one parent also in a rigorous graduate degree program. We drop te girls off in the morning between 7-8 a.m, at a before-care program. They take the bus from there to school and then back there at the end of the day. We pick them up around 6:30, and then we barely have time for cooking and eating dinner, finishing homework,e tc. before bed. So they are exposed to influences at the before/after care facility, on the bus, at school, ... Then on weekends I tend to sleep late, which gives them some time to watch tv or youtube that I may not love.

I think that balancing outside influences is always difficult, and always something that ebbs and flows. I also think that the more time you have together, the more balanced you can be at home. Because our time together is so limited, it is particularly important to me that we spend our time more focused on each other than on outside media stuff. We need to reconnect, and this need seems very much mutual. They rarely ask for playdates or make phonecalls while we're together, and they rarely complain when I turn the tv off as soon as I wake up. We seem to fall into, and need, our own different rhythm.

I wouldn't call our home extreme at all. We listen to music we agree on, watch tv that we agree on, cook and eat what we agree on, ... I've gotten a kind of reputation as an interpreter of song lyrics. I'm not a very bashful person, so I'll explain what the lyrics mean, why the singer is singing them, and how they fit into the larger schema. But i do draw the line at Kesha, because she seems particularly empty. I'll translate lyrics that are sung to me, but I have no interest in hearing the original music or watching the videos.

I think that times that tinker with the natural balances we've developed sometimes call for readjusting and reexamining. I'm on a break between semesters, although still working full time, and the extra time we've had together on weekends introduces some of these balance issues, as well as others, that aren't naturally there.

Last night as we were falling asleep, my 10 year old said she really was looking forward to eating more veggies over the weekend, because she's had too much junk lately. Come Saturday morning, we'll be roasting fennel and baking tofu and chattering on like long lost friends. But, because it's a long weekend, by Monday there will be tension between the things we normally agree on and the things they are normally exposed to away from us.

Oh! Someone asked about candy and junk food- they get it at their before/after care center as a reward, from their friends there, from their bus drivers, from their friends on the bus, from their teachers, from their cafeteria at lunch time, and from their friends at lunch. I'm pretty amazed by the volume of wrappers!!!

[FarmerBeth]

I watch some of my kids TV shows and listen to some of their radio and I talk to them about it.  If I give it a try and it really drives me crazy, I just tell them I'm not into it and don't watch or listen - but I do try first- even with some annoying junky foods they like with my DH.  If I find something I like, I show them and they try it, and they just let ME know if it's not their thing.  We've got some give and take both ways and we don't always agree, but we do know about what each other's  opinions and tastes and beliefs, and it's an exercise in learning about diversity.  I've listened to hours of Taylor Swift and Bleach and the kids have listened to musicals and watched documentaries with me.  It's such a big world with so many great things to try.

[karne]

I was re-reading your first post where you said that you don't want Kesha and candy to win--I totally get it.  But, they might, or they might for a little while, and then they won't be attractive anymore, and the next thing will come along.  We can't see every step our children take away from us as either a disaster in the making, or as a parenting failure.  Those steps are necessary....not fun, sometimes REALLY not fun, but necessary.

My experience is that the teen years, and the pre-teen as well, meant that I needed lots more flexibility, and an openness to meet my child in her space, not always mine.  Believe me, the time will come when you won't be asked to participate in the movies, or music, or the day to day events that make up a large part of their lives.  They do move on and become more independent.  It's what we want, it's what they need, but it's hard.  Grab those moments if you can.  Don't deconstruct Kesha-it's not worth it.  Just hear the invitation that's there, and be happy to have it.  At least that's how I approach it.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by QueenSheba'sMom 

 I also think that the more time you have together, the more balanced you can be at home. Because our time together is so limited, it is particularly important to me that we spend our time more focused on each other than on outside media stuff. We need to reconnect, and this need seems very much mutual.

I have found that as my kids get older, it is necessary for me to connect with them on their terms. Dictating *how* we connected worked when they were young, but it stopped working as they got older.

Refusing to watching YouTube videos with your child, if that is how they want to connect with you, isn't a way to focus on them. It's actually ignoring them, even though you think you are talking to them. You are just talking AT them if what they are saying is that they want to share something with you and you say NO, that what they like is worthless. We've all had experiences where our mothers let us know that they considered what we liked to be worthless; it doesn't leave anyone feeling connected to  mom.

With as much time as you spend with your kids in the car every day, what's the big deal about listening to some of their music some of the time?

I find it odd that you are concerned about your DD's weight, but rather than getting up with her and going hiking or to the Y together, she's looking at a screen while you sleep. I don't have anything against YouTube, but in light of your other concerns, it's odd to me that you sleep in while she's on the internet.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by QueenSheba'sMom 

Oh! Someone asked about candy and junk food- they get it at their before/after care center as a reward, from their friends there, from their bus drivers, from their friends on the bus, from their teachers, from their cafeteria at lunch time, and from their friends at lunch. I'm pretty amazed by the volume of wrappers!!!

You should be looking for more quality care. In our state, you aren't allowed to give food as a reward in the classroom. Talk to the teacher and the bus driver if it's an issue at school. There are lots of alternative rewards. What is being served at lunchtime? I assumed this was a case of mom and dad living in separate houses and coming home with junk from one of them. You really shouldn't have to deal with junk coming home from people you pay to watch your child. The before and after care program may need some evaluation.

My kids don't come home with any wrappers they don't take to school with them (granola bars, peanut butter crackers.) They were never in care but once the law passed when my DD was in 2nd grade, the small amount of school candy stopped completely (and I know that effected the school care kids too.) My kids took lunch but the cafeteria never served candy. They sometimes served little graham cracker cookies but only with those buying hot lunch. They only sold ice cream on Friday and I often let the kids partake in that but it was a once a week thing. You can't control all the food trading between students but that shouldn't result in the volume of wrappers you are describing. 

[One_Girl]

It may not feel like you are connecting much over a movie or listening to the radio, but some of my favorite times with my dd are when we are laughing together over something silly on a movie or singing together to the radio.  It may not be a movie or song I ever want to experience again but it is a positive experience that brings us closer together.  One of my favorite childhood memories is eating chocolate mints and watching Sarah Plain and Tall with my mother and brother. Even if it feels like you aren't connecting at a deep level you are still connecting meaningfully with love and a shared interest.

My dd is only nine but I definitely see how important it is to her to feel like her interests have value.  I try to make sure I am mindful of her interests when we do things together. 

As for the food, I would complain to the district dietician, the teacher, and the after school program.  My dd goes to a school where they have no trouble with junk food rewards but it isn't anything like the volume you describe.  If you are so concerned about the junk food at school that you worry over a child having sauce with meat you really need to try to address the problem at its source.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by QueenSheba'sMom 

I really appreciate all of this feedback and all of this great discussion!

Our situation is a bit out of the ordinary, with two parents working full time, often opposing schedules, and one parent also in a rigorous graduate degree program. We drop te girls off in the morning between 7-8 a.m, at a before-care program. They take the bus from there to school and then back there at the end of the day. We pick them up around 6:30, and then we barely have time for cooking and eating dinner, finishing homework,e tc. before bed. So they are exposed to influences at the before/after care facility, on the bus, at school, ... Then on weekends I tend to sleep late, which gives them some time to watch tv or youtube that I may not love.

I think that balancing outside influences is always difficult, and always something that ebbs and flows. I also think that the more time you have together, the more balanced you can be at home. Because our time together is so limited, it is particularly important to me that we spend our time more focused on each other than on outside media stuff. We need to reconnect, and this need seems very much mutual. They rarely ask for playdates or make phonecalls while we're together, and they rarely complain when I turn the tv off as soon as I wake up. We seem to fall into, and need, our own different rhythm.

I think you're missing the fact that they're asking to connect over these things and you're telling them it's not worth your time or energy. Will your kids continue to want to connect with you if you don't shop interest in the things that they like? Part of being a parent is listening to your children and learning what they're interested in and why. No, it's not always stellar conversation, or even something you'd want to do on your own. But it does help you connect. I'll trade you a week's worth of Keesha for a week's worth of NBA trivia!
 

I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to quote from another thread here, but there's a very poignant thread started by someone asking "How can I like my mom": http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1342465/are-you-friends-with-your-parents-how-do-i-start-liking-my-mom/0_50  Read the first couple of paragraphs.

Edited by LynnS6 - 1/18/12 at 6:52pm

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 
I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to quote from another thread here, but there's a very poignant thread started by someone asking "How can I like my mom": http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1342465/are-you-friends-with-your-parents-how-do-i-start-liking-my-mom/0_50  Read the first couple of paragraphs.

I really liked you post, and this link is perfect. I think that often mothers do not realize that their children's feelings and opinions are valid, and that how we treat their likes and dislikes will have an impact on our relationship with them forever.

[karne]

I read the link-it's very moving.  From my perspective, time is a great healer.  Becoming a mom has humbled me.  I also very much see that my parents are pulling inward as they age and experience some life changes.  I hang onto the times that we connected because life is very different now.  I don't need the big connection anymore.  It's more in my head--I want to be there, so I am.  There isn't a pull of huge connection right now to be truthful.  I have to use my own desire to connect.

Not sure where I'm going with this except that it's truly making me think to be grateful for the moments of connection we do have, and to cherish being invited in.  It doesn't always last forever.