ARGH!!! Need to vent

[neonalee]

Mostly about DSD, somewhat about her mom.  My DSD (just turned 13) moved in with us in August.  Since then she has been deliberatly going out of her way to lie to us and make us miserable so we might send her home to mom (her moving for at least 1 year was agreed by all parents, personally I think her mom is glad for the break).  It has gotten to the point where I wouldn't be too sad to not see her for a year or more and DP spends more time disliking his daughter and worse, sometimes honestly hating her. 

Here's today's episode.  DP works nights.  Last night/this morning he got 1 hour of sleep when we all woke up late (a few minutes after 8 am).  A few minutes later I hear DSD screaming at him about taking her to school.  I can't hear him because he's not yelling.  He comes in and says he's taking her to school (yes, his giving in because he doesn't want to listen to her is a problem).  I tell him he's crazy.  He's stuttering and slurring his words he's so tired.  It's unsafe, absolutely not.  We live less than 1 mile away.  She can walk, ride her bike, take the bus.  He tells her it's too dangerous and she goes off.  I step outside our room and yell at her to F***ing grow up.  Agreed, not my finest moment.  I'm sick, the baby has been sick, I'm barely sleeping.  No excuse though, I lost it.

She ends up riding her bike.  I get a text half an hour ago from her mom:  "Did DP tell DSD to F*** off and go to hell and neonalee tell her to go away?

I replied with the facts and I'm happy to say I just got a reply that that was what she figured was going on (everyone is aware that DSD seems to turn insane whenever she doesn't get what she wants).  I'm so fed up honestly.  I'm sick of dealing with this BS from DSD.  And my son is 17 months.  So he's really starting to pick up on her behavior.  Also, I get that her mom feels the need to check up on things every time DSD runs to her with her "made up around a grain of truth" stories, but sometimes it really makes me mad.  When DSD lived with mom every weekend there was some story about what her mom did and we weren't constantly calling her up about it.

[laohaire]

Sounds like you and DH need to agree on some protocols. I agree with you that he shouldn't be just jumping up at her command just because he doesn't want to listen to her scream at him (which is just unacceptable anyway). That's not going to do anyone (least of all DSD) any good. However, that's something you will need to discuss with him at a time when something is not actually happening in the moment.

If you guys are a unified front, you can accomplish a lot.

[neonalee]

Yeah, we need to just learn to not react at all when she starts up.  Pretend she's not there?  And then make it clear to her that we will discuss when she stops screaming.  DP has a bit of a temper and he's come a long way, but I can only expect so much from him (and me apparently) on so little sleep.

[laohaire]

I'm not a parent of a teen (or for that matter, a step, so I don't have any business responding at all) but I don't think just ignoring her is going to be your answer. She's screaming at him while he's 1 hour of sleep into his rest after a hard night of work? No, I don't think that falls in the "ignore" category. I don't have any brilliant solutions other than you both telling her in an EXTREMELY firm voice - maybe fireballs shooting from your eyes - that screaming is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE and that she WILL take the bus or walk to school. With you steering her out the bedroom door so she can take her tantrum elsewhere. I don't think this is going to work any miracles for the specific fit she's throwing but if you are consistent and unified, eventually - eventually! - she might learn that you guys don't tolerate that. But every time he rolls out of bed and drives her butt to school, she is rewarded for that kind of behavior. That's a really important point - when you talk to him about it, he should understand that if he gives in even occasionally, you guys go right back to the start line again.

My daughter is sweet and I love her to death but I can actually see her doing this as a teen if permitted. Especially to her dad. She is extremely demanding and her dad (my DH) kind of just goes along with it. It's like, he grew up with a single mom and a sister who were also like that, and he is pretty laid back and just generally went along with whatever made them happy. And now when DD tells him to get her this, hold her jacket, put on her shoes, etc., he doesn't think about it, he just does it. I've been trying to get him to see that he's not doing her (or her future husband, groan) any favors by putting up with this.

[Mummoth]

If he IS going to cave and drive her to school, he should wear your bathrobe and insist on getting out of the car to give her a hug at the school, and use some cutesy pet name when he yells "I love you, _____! Have a great day!" as she walks (runs?) in the front door. But really, I think the best bet is to just not give her anything that she tantrums for... she's doing it because it's working. Maybe an ultimatum? "Not only will I not drive you to school, if you keep this up you will not be getting rides ANYWHERE for a week." Would that mean missing out on extracurriculars or socializing? Maybe something else would be better, but she'll probably figure out pretty quickly that throwing a fit doesn't get her what she wants if the consequence is big enough.

As far as her mom goes, she might be feeling a little guilty for letting her go (maybe especially if it's a relief to have a break?) and questioning every little thing is appeasing the feeling for her? I can understand it's frustrating for you guys, but she might just need the extra reassurance that DD is being well taken care of right now. Or it might be comforting to know that it wasn't her fault, DD is giving you guys the same kind of trouble she got with her. It's probably just taking her some time to get used to someone else being the main person dealing with DD. Hopefully she gets more comfortable with things soon.

[neonalee]

Thanks for the thoughts mamas. Dp & i discussed last night & are totally on the same page. I feel so bad for him. He's super stressed right now because of his daughters behavior & also work. He knows what he needs to do & is going to be more consistent.

As for yesterday, I followed what I thought to be some very good advice & apologized for my yelling & swearing last night. Dp & dsd had already had their after blow up talk. After I apologized she did also for "acting that way". Dp is talking about family counseling thank gods.

sent from my phone using tapatalk, please forgive typos

[VocalMinority]

!  It's rotten for people to deal with their own hormonal, dramatic, self-centered, rude teenage girls...much less having to raise one when you DIDN'T give birth to her and get to enjoy all the cute, pigtail years.

Originally Posted by neonalee 

Mostly about DSD, somewhat about her mom.  My DSD (just turned 13) moved in with us in August.  Since then she has been deliberatly going out of her way to lie to us and make us miserable so we might send her home to mom (her moving for at least 1 year was agreed by all parents, personally I think her mom is glad for the break).  It has gotten to the point where I wouldn't be too sad to not see her for a year or more and DP spends more time disliking his daughter and worse, sometimes honestly hating her. 

How far away is Mom?  I.e., how often does DSS get to see her?

While her behavior makes everyone's feelings understandable, surely you also understand that - at this VERY insecure time in a girl's life - it must feel TERRIBLE for her, to sense that no one really wants her around.

Here's today's episode.  DP works nights.  Last night/this morning he got 1 hour of sleep when we all woke up late (a few minutes after 8 am).  A few minutes later I hear DSD screaming at him about taking her to school.  I can't hear him because he's not yelling.  He comes in and says he's taking her to school (yes, his giving in because he doesn't want to listen to her is a problem).  I tell him he's crazy.  He's stuttering and slurring his words he's so tired.  It's unsafe, absolutely not.  We live less than 1 mile away.  She can walk, ride her bike, take the bus.  He tells her it's too dangerous and she goes off. 

Good for you guys.  Tired driving can be worse than drunk driving.

I step outside our room and yell at her to F***ing grow up.  Agreed, not my finest moment.  I'm sick, the baby has been sick, I'm barely sleeping.  No excuse though, I lost it.

It happens.  And you're being honest about it.

That's the thing, though:  she's NOT grown up.  She's testing to see if the people who are supposed to love her unconditionally, forever, have limits where they will stop loving her.  It's not rational.  If she's scared that both parents might be capable of not loving/not wanting her, why would she push the limits and potentially drive them away?  Because she's 13.  She really, really wants to find out that no matter how rotten she is, she IS still the center of her parents' universe(s) and they STILL somehow think she's wonderful.

When she's more mature, she will probably figure out that the best way to be treated like you're wonderful is to ACT that way!

She ends up riding her bike.  I get a text half an hour ago from her mom:  "Did DP tell DSD to F*** off and go to hell and neonalee tell her to go away?

Of course.  If she can get her Mom to sympathize with her, she can feel sorry for herself, instead of feel guilty and selfish.  

FWIW, my DSS's Mom is still spin-doctoring and convincing herself that whatever story she can get someone else to believe is the truth.  And she's in her 40's.  I think the behavior is more typical of 13-year-old girls and there's hope your DSD will outgrow it.

That Mom was willing to give her up for a year provides all the more reason to look for any excuse to get Mom to sympathize with her.

I replied with the facts and I'm happy to say I just got a reply that that was what she figured was going on (everyone is aware that DSD seems to turn insane whenever she doesn't get what she wants). 

Well, thank your lucky stars Mom is reasonable!  Some people wind up in court over stuff like that.  In the long run, it will be better for DSD that both (really all 3) parents are on the same page about her behavior.

I'm so fed up honestly.  I'm sick of dealing with this BS from DSD.  And my son is 17 months.  So he's really starting to pick up on her behavior.  Also, I get that her mom feels the need to check up on things every time DSD runs to her with her "made up around a grain of truth" stories, but sometimes it really makes me mad.  When DSD lived with mom every weekend there was some story about what her mom did and we weren't constantly calling her up about it.

While I completely understand your frustration, I think both ways of handling things are OK.  Even if my kids were colossal brats, I could not hear that someone had mistreated them and not investigate.  The important thing is that when you give her a reasonable explanation, Mom believes you and lets it go.

Hang in there, Mama!

[neonalee]

Thanks Jeannine   What you say makes perfect sense.  And I agree with everything you wrote.  But living with her purposefully trying to make us send her back has really worn us down.  This girl is unbelievable in her rages.  Direct quote from her mom:  "There are cracks in the ceiling in probably a 200 ft radius of her room.  Still waiting for the ceiling fan to fall on us at any time."  DP joked (sorta) recently that if he were ever a landlord he would charge teen deposits rather than pet deposits.

For the record, it took a few years for her and DP to get to this point of friendly-ish parenting and I am grateful for it every time these issues come up.  Her mom lives half the country away, so this change was HUGE for her and we all acknowledge that.  Unfortunately there is more than typical teen stuff going on, but that's just too long a story to get into.  Her mom also just found an ... essay? she wrote while she was there for her winter break.  All about how she was going to "destroy" her fren-amy (is that how it's spelled?).  Mom thinks this is the drive behind wanting to come home.  It's definitely not the first time I've heard that she wants to go back and get this other girl for "ruining her reputation".

Anyway, back on topic, you are right about the feeling not wanted thing.  I don't know any way we can better prove to her she is wanted than what we were doing, but the truth is she is intentionally destroying her family.  However, I would not be the slightest bit surprised if she is deeply scarred about mom not wanting her for various reasons.  Mom was not easily convinced to let her come live with us and we were all in therapy together at the time, however she maybe talks to my DSD once a week, rarely answers the phone when called, worked on DSDs birthday (over winter break), etc.

Sigh.  Hanging in there but only by a thread...

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by neonalee 

Thanks for the thoughts mamas. Dp & i discussed last night & are totally on the same page. I feel so bad for him. He's super stressed right now because of his daughters behavior & also work. He knows what he needs to do & is going to be more consistent.
As for yesterday, I followed what I thought to be some very good advice & apologized for my yelling & swearing last night. Dp & dsd had already had their after blow up talk. After I apologized she did also for "acting that way". Dp is talking about family counseling thank gods.
sent from my phone using tapatalk, please forgive typos

Family counseling sounds like it may be necessary, and it might even be necessary to include the mother if the relationship is respectful enough that its possible.

I do not have a teenager yet (got a ways, my ds is 3), but I'm reading a book that may be helpful to you as well since it isn't necessarily age specific, its called "Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles". It's definitely worth picking up and reading cover to cover. It discusses each kids individual personality traits (persistence, intensity, sensitivity, adaptability, first reactions, etc) and how to connect with them over difficult issues without everything turning into a power struggle - and it sounds like you are having tons of power struggles right now!

Also, Please don't think that she is intentionally trying to destroy her family - and don't take her behavior personally. I lived with both my parents, and said some horrible things to them at 13. It's a REALLY hard age, and school isn't fun at that age either. I know you are doing your best, and I know its super super hard (I can only imagine!) but try to see past it and not take her words personally. It's also a huge adjustment to have a younger sibling, if she didn't live with one before.

One last thought, if her mom is only talking to her once/week, can you try to talk to her about that and try to schedule times for them to chat over skype or the phone? That might help, and it might also get mom to start making the effort to talk to her more than once per week. I know this reply is late in the game, and I hope things have gotten better

[neonalee]

Thanks super single mama! (And hats off to all single mamas - i had to do that for only 2 months & thought I would lose my mind). Things are going a little better she seems to be making an effort lately. But counseling is definitely in our future. Her mom wont. We did it when we all lived in the same state & she showed for less than half the sessions. And the phone talks are supposedly because she is too busy (bs). I'll look for that book in the library. It's hard not to take it personally because she has flat out told us she was doing it on purpose: ( however I recently reminded myself that her attitude & actions do not have to dictate my mood, so that's what I'm working on.

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[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by neonalee 

Thanks super single mama! (And hats off to all single mamas - i had to do that for only 2 months & thought I would lose my mind). Things are going a little better she seems to be making an effort lately. But counseling is definitely in our future. Her mom wont. We did it when we all lived in the same state & she showed for less than half the sessions. And the phone talks are supposedly because she is too busy (bs). I'll look for that book in the library. It's hard not to take it personally because she has flat out told us she was doing it on purpose: ( however I recently reminded myself that her attitude & actions do not have to dictate my mood, so that's what I'm working on.
sent from my phone using tapatalk, please forgive typos

She needs to know that she is loved by her parents even when she's acting like that. 13 is a HORRIBLE age for girls, good or bad circumstances, and having to move from one parents home to another, her mom being "too busy" to talk to her more than once/week, and suddenly having a much younger baby sibling - all of that is recipe for disaster. In a pretty major way. It also sounds like maybe she moved far from her mom? You said you live in different states, so I don't know if that means your dsd moved with you, or if her mom moved away and left her with you.....that didn't come out right but I'm tired so I hope you get what I mean. It sounds like it would be a hard situation for anyone.

I know my ds is only 3yo, but I tell him every day that I love him even when I'm angry. Sounds like your DH may need to start using that phrase? She needs to know that she is wanted.

Are there any hobbies that she really enjoys? Can you try to set up a reward system that involves doing some of her favorite things?

[PoppyMama]

Jeannine,

I just wanted to tell you that you have given the best worded advice about difficult teenage girls that I have seen so far.  I saved this page to reread as needed.