Post-Gardasil Syndrome - Page 3

[Imakcerka]

Obviously it's an educational issue.  Too many people give too much power to Authorative figures.  I've known people who take medications that make them worse and get treatment that is not helping... because the doctor said they should. 

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

 It's also not the fault of the doctor, the CDC, or the pharmaceutical  company that makes the vaccine.  If someone is presented with information and chooses not to read it, it's their fault, and no one else's.

agreed...but so many parents just go with the flow, and accept what someone else says without question or reading up on what they were told. 

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

 It's also not the fault of the doctor, the CDC, or the pharmaceutical  company that makes the vaccine.  If someone is presented with information and chooses not to read it, it's their fault, and no one else's.

Yes, but when the party line is that you HAVE to give these vaccines right on schedule and that they wouldn't be given unless they were safe, why would a parent question it?

Doctors tell parents all the time that if they take time to think and research the vaccines, that the child could DIE!  That these vaccines are SAFE!  That the child won't be able to go to school if they aren't vaccinated!  Or furthermore, if they don't follow the CDC schedule, they will have to look for a new doctor, or worse, they will be reported to CPS.

So whose fault is it?  When a doctor pressures a parent to consent, and propagates the myth that all the vaccines are required for life, why would the VIS even matter?  And when the possible adverse effects listed are based on the single vaccine in a healthy individual and not all of them that are given at the same time (for example, the DTaP sheet lists some of the DTaP adverse effects but not what could happen when having DTaP/PCV/IPV/RV/Hib all at once), how is that informed consent?

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

agreed...but so many parents just go with the flow, and accept what someone else says without question or reading up on what they were told. 

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Yes, but when the party line is that you HAVE to give these vaccines right on schedule and that they wouldn't be given unless they were safe, why would a parent question it?

Doctors tell parents all the time that if they take time to think and research the vaccines, that the child could DIE!  That these vaccines are SAFE!  That the child won't be able to go to school if they aren't vaccinated!  Or furthermore, if they don't follow the CDC schedule, they will have to look for a new doctor, or worse, they will be reported to CPS.

So whose fault is it?  When a doctor pressures a parent to consent, and propagates the myth that all the vaccines are required for life, why would the VIS even matter?  And when the possible adverse effects listed are based on the single vaccine in a healthy individual and not all of them that are given at the same time (for example, the DTaP sheet lists some of the DTaP adverse effects but not what could happen when having DTaP/PCV/IPV/RV/Hib all at once), how is that informed consent?

I think it's a parent's job to know about these things. Why would the VIS matter? It's how we get the information to the parent, the responsible party. If you don't have  enough sense to read something your doctor gives you about the health of your child, well, I don't even know what to say.

Since the law makes information available to parents, and you say it's somehow the norm to not read it, not know it, not question it, what would you say informed consent might look like?

Why would a parent question it? The same reason you and I question it.
 

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 3:09pm

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Parents simply do what the guy in the white coat tells them. People/parents give power to the authority figure.  You know that.  When the schools tell people "no shots, no school", why do they believe that lie?  Because the school/government/authorities tell them, and they are too tired caring for their families to take the very next step and ask questions. 

And parents simply do not do the research regarding each vaccines as to the side effects and precautions, so parents forget which shots/combination of shots their child gets and they simply pay for their visit and make arrangements for the next visit and move on.  

IF you are a parent, you would know that.  
 

I  became a parent in 1991, and no, I don't know that. I did my research and I don't just "do what the white coats tell me.'' And honestly, the folks I know IRL don't either. It's the information age! There is no excuse to not know about vaccines.

Parents have difficult decisions to make. They should inform themselves.  If you are a parent you know that. So I ask again, what would informed consent look like? Because "giving the parents the tools to enable informed consent" isn't flying here. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[WildKingdom]

Miriam, still waiting to hear from you regarding what kind of trouble doctors are getting into, and from whom, for reporting reactions. 

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 3:06pm

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 3:04pm

[Buzzer Beater]

I think it's ridiculous to transfer your responsibility to authority and then bitch and moan when you don't like the outcome.

What would informed consent look like? You know, for your circle of friends.

[member234098]

I 

Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 3:02pm

[Marnica]

No NO No......I think it's Folie A Deux.

Part of the definition of conversion disorder is that the initiation or exacerbation of the symptoms or deficit is preceeded by significant conflict or stress. I'm sure that doesn't apply to all of the girls who have had problems post Gardasil. I've seen/read stories about girls who were happy, doing well in school, with everything going swimmingly in their life prior to problems post vaccination. One of these girls is features in the new documentary "For the Greater Good".

 

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I think it is Coversion Disorder.

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Sorry, but I have a life.

If you are waiting for a link, keep waiting. I have been told by HCPs privately and read their blogs. No double blind, scientific, long term, published study to present to you. It is anecdotal, and I know how that goes. We will wait for the class action law suit or wrongful firing lawsuit. There have already been lawsuits and protests over laws forcing HCPs to get the annual flu vaccine. Meanwhile, I know you are not holding your breath, so relax.

Since you claim to work in such an environment, why don't you ask around or make a few reports yourself, or are there no vax reactions to report in your neck of the woods? Let us know what happens.

Well, I haven't reported any vaccine reactions because no one has had any that I'm aware of. The only ones I give are flu, pneomovax, and TDaP, since I only see adults. I have made reports of adverse drug reactions to the FDA, several times. The Men in Black haven't shown up yet. 

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Do you think the typical 12 year old will read all that, understand it, and be able to give informed consent?

No, I do not think a 12 year old is capable of informed consent.

I think parents are capable of informed consent, even if doctors are scary and work in big buildings. Life is scary and complicated, and vax isn't the only hard decision parents have to educate themselves about. You'd have to live under a rock these days not to know that people are talking about vax, that there is contoversy. If folks put their head in the sand, then what?

You are giving me the same non-answer- parents don't know, parents are intimidated, etc.

Okay, what would informed consent look like to you anywhere, with anyone? What steps need to be taken to make sure parents know the pros and cons of the situation?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater 

Your doctor can't give your child a vaccine unless you ask for it. How could parents not know what their children were getting?

You ARE joking, aren't you?

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

You ARE joking, aren't you?

PP said parents don't even know which vax their children are getting, that's what my post refers to. It is my position that parents should know which vaxes their children have received.

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 3:01pm

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 2:59pm

[Marnica]

Hmmm this thread has been very interesting (Gardasil issues aside...I know we have gotten a bit sidetracked). I see both sides here. I agree with those that have posted that it is a parent's responsibility to read the VIS sheets and at the very least make it their business to know what is being injected into their child and why...anything less on the parent's part is a cop out (at least that is the vibe Im getting from certain posts). These sheets are supposed to be given at each visit where a vaccine is administered. This is all well and good in a perfect world where all people due their due diligence. However this is often not the reality is it and that is where the problem lies. There are those doctors out there that do not comply with federal law and no not give these sheets out. Yes they can be reported (my friend reported her doc a number of years ago for not provoding this information) and guess what happened - NOTHING. There are many parents out there that while they have the best of intentions, are totally uneducated about vaccines and listen to their doctor for advice. What if their doctor dismisses their concerns (despite them reading the VIS and bringing up any reservations) and tell them that reactions are 1 in a million, if they do not give these vaccines today their child will get sick and die, that the child will be unable to atend school. What then? It's the parent's fault for feeling intimidated? for not just grabbing their balls and postponing the shot until they have had time to do more independent research? Yes in a perfect world all parents would be able to do this, but this is just not realistic. The bottom line of that MOST parents put 100% faith in their child's doc to tell them the whole truth and nothing but the truth and not leave anything out. What if the info that is being supplied to the parent is not balanced or free from bias? The VIS sheets are ridiculous IMO. They downplay the potential for serious reactions and the info provided is all CDC generated and fairly one sided IMO. BUT it is better than nothing and every parent that vaccinates SHOULD read it and I agree that there is really no excuse not to. The problem IMO lies in what happens after they read it and voice concerns.......I just don't think it is so cut and dry as to say well I wasn't given the VIS or well I didn't read it.

The VIS sheets also do not tell the parent which specific brand of vaccine is given. personallly I think every parents should be provided with the package insert and the lot # of any vaccine injected into their child. After all for many vaccines there are several different formulations with differing ingredients and amount of antigen.

[member234098]

Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 2:56pm