or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think. - Page 6

post #101 of 143


I actually was going to break my silence and suggest to her that she doesn't.  And maybe considers editing some of the details she's shared.  If this gets ugly, it would probably be best for there not to be a trail through the internet of the happenings. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

I wonder if OP is still reading? I hope she updates and lets us know how they are doing, even if it takes her a while to get back here.



 

post #102 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroodyWoodsgal View Post

OP, you need to get it in your head this very second, that you are going to have to get nasty with this one. You know your Ex...hell, half the women on this thread "know" your ex. We married/dated and subsequently ran like our pants were on fire AWAY from that dude. We all know that "a-hole ex" PLUS a shiny badge equals MAJOR blow-back as soon as he figures out what you are trying to assert has gone down here.

 

You need a good lawyer, the best you can reasonably afford. Recording conversations with your DD is good...but you also need to be documenting every conversation you have with your ex. I might even try the following:

 

1. Get an answering machine, the old-school kind that records on an actual tape.

2. When you need to have a serious conversation about something with him, the "confrontation" about this whole thing...call him when you know he can't answer and tell him you want to talk about all of this and to call you back asap.

3. When he calls, let it go to the machine and then pick it up just as it starts recording....then fumble a little bit, saying something like "ugh, voicemail is broken, I had to hook up this machine and I don't know how to make this recording thingie stop" - he thinks you're stupid enough that this may fly...and as the conversation continues he may forget he's being recorded...and depending upon what state you are in, the whole "ugh, I don't know how to make this thing stop recording" might count as "enough" for meeting the "you can't record someone without informing them that they are being recorded" requirement.

 

It may amount to nothing...but it may be your one chance to get him to give "his version" of what happened in an off the cuff manor. 

 

Oh, and record ALL conversations you have with your DD on the phone from his house. You can even tell her "I'm going to record this conversation so I can remember it later, okay" - I dn't know, just in case or whatever. Then move on to whatever it she is calling about. May not be admissible in court later...but it may be. Some judges are just crazy....that can work in your favor, or not.

 

As for the red flags thing...dude, I'm sorry, without the teenage boys thing and the pants being pulled down (which IS abuse, in and of itself! humiliation, control, shaming - the SA trifecta!) and all of that stuff....this man would not be watching my DD under any circumstances. He lost me at being a creepy, controlling, stalker. Period. The movie thing and not letting her call you...that's all "icing". He's a shitty man. Period.

 

I don't want to be too tough on you, because you're going through a lot....but I want you to know that not only COULD he be involved in abusing your DD...he probably is. Yeah, I said that.

 

My ears perked up BIG TIME when I heard him say "she's lying". - yeah, sorry dad, but you lose. My husband would lose his freaking MIND at the mention of someone pulling down DDs pants, especially in the context that she is having "behavior problems". I don't think it would even MATTER if it were true, he would fly so hard off the handle over that. Now I, the girls mama, would take her some place safe and talk to her, hug her up and try to find out what was going on....but I don't know a single respectable father, whose first response to that information wouldn't be to completely lose it and go WAY over protective of his daughter. No "good" father hears "they pulled my pants down" and jumps to "you're lying". The first thought is "MY LITTLE GIRL!! WHAT???" and then ACTION to try and protect her.

 

He is protecting people who are victimizing his DD.  You need to start thinking of him as an abuser, just get yourself in that frame of mind with him, because his home is acting as shelter for people who have shamed, humiliated and potentially further abused your daughter.

 

Who is worse? The teenaged boy who abuses his sister....or the father who stands in the way of stopping it and calls her a liar? What a pig.

 

The man who made my childhood a living hell was the "nicest guy you'd ever want to meet". NOBODY saw how sick he was. He was "Mr. Dreamboat". There were red flags absolutely ALL over the place. Down to making fun of my body (in a sexual way) in front of people. When I was 8. Yeah. My mother was "SO lucky he was so willing to step in and be a father to her three young kids" - yeah, well, two of us were little girls, so that was a bargain price for him. I was in my late teens when a school counselor reported the situation and set the ball in motion. My mother believed me...and then proceeded, after he was settled somewhere else, to allow my smallest sister (his bio DD) to have visitation with him, off the books. She was five. She's a young woman now. We've just recently discovered that it really wasn't "just me"...he's a fucking abuser and he molested my little sister, too. Nobody ever told her why our parents got divorced. Can you imagine? I left home right after everything went down and he moved out and I didn't even know for years...can you imagine my guilt at the fact that, when I did find out, I believed my mother, that it was "just me" and that he would never do that to her? I was still so deep in shame and selfhate that I believed it HAD to have been me. :(

 

Your head is not clear on this. He emotionally and mentally abused you....you are probably not even fully out of that fog. You still can't see him clearly, even as much as you hate him now. The PP upstream who said that she considered your history of SA to be another red flag that your ExH might be an abuser, is 100% correct. I say that as a survivor...whose mother is also a survivor....whose mother was also a survivor. I don't know why this happens, but it does. Neat little chains down the line. You married him. Red flag for SA number one. He turned out to be a controlling a-hole, who stalked you and emotionally abused you. Red flag for SA number two, even if he never laid a hand on you or tried to SA you even once. Everything else just makes sense after that. Everything just fits.

 

Document everything. EVEN THE THINGS THAT DON"T MATTER. If he gets nasty and aggressive with you, I don't care if you are straight up lying(in ways that can't be caught) on the report...file a protection order/restraining order. He is a cop, he already has more control. Take out a restraining order on him and claim whatever you have to. Threats, menacing....as long as there is no one there to act as a witness to the contrary, say whatever(within reason) that you have to, "I'm afraid he is going to kill me for embarrassing him with these allegations" - then buy a gun. He tries to come around you after that, shoot him in the goddamned face. I love ya, mama, you're obviously fighting the food fight right now.....but you're a little weak on the "kicking his ass" part of this. This dude is straight up harboring young men who have humiliated and shamed your daughter and, most likely, worse. Treat him as such. Maybe not OPENLY right now, when you want him to cooperate and not realize how serious you are....but in your "heart of hearts" you need to start calling this piece of poop what it is. No more of this "I know in my heart he would...." this or that or whatever. It happened in HIS house. From here on out, you assume the worst about this a-hole. You can mend fences later. Something happened to her. He called her a liar. Game Over for dad. Period.

 

Don't make things any harder for yourself than you have to...but don't be "pollyanna princess" with this prick either. Do what you have to do. Do not assume anything is just going to "work out" in your favor. Fight this hard, before you have to.....starting with a good lawyer.

 

You have just little enough evidence that things could be wishy-washy. That means be smart. Document everything. Be on YOUR best behavior. Assume he's gonna go apeshit on you. Don't tell him a damn thing that he doesn't need to know. Period. Do not tip your hand to this dude.

 

 

Good luck. We are here for you. Don't mess around with this mama....I hear a bit of "timid" left over in your voice. You are not married to this creep anymore. He does not hold any control over you. He is not protecting your child. SOMEBODY HAS TO. That somebody, is YOU. This is the time for FIERCE. MAMA BEAR. DO IT.

 

 

 


Thank you.  You sound like such a strong woman.  Thank you for your advice. 
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post


Really? A mother sending her child to a home where she is concerned about teenagers in the house should have conversations with her child about this frequently.

 


 

I didn't see this question earlier.  Of course I've talked to my daughter about this.  Maybe I didn't do it often enough.  Maybe I was afraid of being paranoid or hypersensitive, so I didn't talk about it as much as I should have. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

I wonder if OP is still reading? I hope she updates and lets us know how they are doing, even if it takes her a while to get back here.



A lot has occurred. 

 

On a happy note...

 

I took my daughter home after work Monday night. (It has been about a week since she was with her dad). When we got home: Daughter went in her room and got a pull-up for bed, she put her clothes in the hamper, she put the pull-up on, she brushed her teeth, she grabbed a bottle of water and put it on the night stand and she said, "I'm all ready for bed, mommy."

That's the kid I know. This "good" behavior is something I haven't seen in a very long time. Maybe it's a coincidence that she hasn't been at her dad's house in a week. Maybe it's not. But I had happy tears in my eyes, seeing my baby again...

We laid in bed and giggled and laughed about silly things. I couldn't believe I was able to laugh after the night I had just had. But we did. She mentioned that her tooth hurt. I checked it. I told her, "Now, honey, you're going to have to see the dentist. I'm going to have to make you an appoinment." (I took her once and she refused to open her mouth. She's been arguing and angry over not ever going back). She didn't argue last night. She asked questions, "Will it hurt, what will they do, etc".

Then she said, "But I want a girl doctor, NOT a boy doctor!" I nodded and assured her that I would get a really sweet girl doctor for her. I asked her why she wanted a girl doctor. She said, "Because I like girls, they're nice." I hesitated but asked, "Why do you not want a boy doctor?" She tightened up her lips and put on her "mad" face, turned away from me and said, "Because I don't!"

It was lightning outside, a storm brewing.  A warm night in January.  I laid in bed and thought about the night a tornado came into town. We were at walmart. We heard howling outside. Everyone yelled "get down, get down!". I put DD under the clothes rack. I threw piles of clothes on top of her. I laid on top of her and the clothes. I held her arms so tight. I told her, "I will not let you go. I will keep holding on to you. We have to talk to Jesus to protect us...." I cried.

 

I worked midnights Tuesday night, DD was with grandma.  I received a happy phone call saying "good night"...and lots of "I love you's."  She also (for the 2nd time in at least 4 months) willingly put on her pull-up.


This is no different than the night at walmart. A mother is supposed to throw herself in front of a train for her kids. True or not, I'm a concerned mother, laying on top of my daughter to keep her safe. 

 

 

 

post #103 of 143

Peace be with you both mama. 

post #104 of 143

You are one strong mama, standing up for you DD. I'm glad to hear that the ball is rolling. I'm so glad that at this point your ex doesn't have any legal right for your DD. He sounds like a grade-A a**wipe. I will be thinking of you and your baby and sending you lots of light and love. Things will work out and your daughter will be forever grateful to have had a mother who believed her and removed her from the situation as soon as it was clear something was wrong. In your place, I probably wouldn't have put any of the symptoms together until she said that her brothers pulled her pants down, either. If the thought crossed my mind, I'd have put it off to being paranoid. You're a great mom, don't let anyone, esp your ex, tell you different! hug2.gif

post #105 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflyBaby11 View Post
<snip>


This is no different than the night at walmart. A mother is supposed to throw herself in front of a train for her kids. True or not, I'm a concerned mother, laying on top of my daughter to keep her safe. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, this.

 

Hugs, mama, I'm no stronger than you or any other mama on this thread. Nobody has anything inside of them to prepare them for dealing with this kind of horrible situation...we're all the same. We're just a bunch of mamas trying to grow up happy, confident kids. Doing the best we can. It's easy for me to talk tough, in my cozy SAHM life where my kids are never out of my sight, with a good and kind, reasonable man who comes home every night to be connected and loving with his family....you know? It's reeeeal easy for me to talk all about "what I would do" etc. It's not as easy for you....ACTUALLY IN THIS....with this creep who has "rights" because he's her bio-dad. But you have to be even tougher than I talk...you have to be twice as tough as you think I sound....because sometimes you only get one go-around. That's the only reason I said all the stuff I said. I've seen too many heartbroken mamas, who knew that their Ex was a creep, but didn't know HOW BIG an asshole he really was, until they figured out too late that they shouldn't have been wearing kid gloves in court. Or giving him the "benefit of the doubt".

 

You need to fight him like HE is the tornado threatening to swoop up your kid...because when he figures out what you are asserting has gone down here, he is going to become that. He is going to use every means available to him, to protect his reputation. Nothing stinks worse in the precinct, than the guy who is accused of vague sexually related crimes against his own precious girl...he's going to do everything he can to smear you, make you look crazy and fight you for this child if you accuse him of SA or of covering up SA. It's the only thing a guy like him CAN do in a situation like that. This is going to embarrass and shock him to his core....nothing turns a creepy, controlling stalker dude crazier faster than something like this. You need to be on your toes, alert and on top of this shit. You need to have a SERIOUS discussion with your Grandmother about safety, keeping locked up, documenting anything strange that happens and not letting him into her home unannounced, if he seems agitated, etc. SHE needs to pull out a protective order, too, should there be ONE incident of EVEN SLIGHTLY concerning behavior while your DD is at her house. I'm not even joking...I want you ladies armed and properly trained in how to use a firearm. I'm talking at the range, once a week, until you feel comfortable handling a gun. None of this willy nilly BS where you have a gun but don't feel confident with it. Be safe, be trained. It's not funny, it's not to be taken lightly. You need ot be able to protect yourself.

 

I'd rather you overreact to his potential threat level, than undereact and end up sorry. Were it not for his history with you, my guard may not be up so much for you....but I've known too many controlling, stalker-ish "cop types" to feel comfortable telling you he "probably won't go nuts over this" - you know? 

Really think of the reaction he had to you leaving him. Not good, right? You stepped out of the "control box" and he really didnt like that. Doesn't look good to the guys, to have your wife up and leave you. How do you think he will perceive the action you are currently taking? He may literally want to kill you over this. Just be so careful. So, so careful. He's not your friend, he's not your co-parent, he is a threat...an out of control tornado, bearing down on you and threatening to take away the most precious thing to you. Proceed with extreme caution.
 

 

post #106 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3xMama View Post

You are one strong mama, standing up for you DD. I'm glad to hear that the ball is rolling. I'm so glad that at this point your ex doesn't have any legal right for your DD. He sounds like a grade-A a**wipe. I will be thinking of you and your baby and sending you lots of light and love. Things will work out and your daughter will be forever grateful to have had a mother who believed her and removed her from the situation as soon as it was clear something was wrong. In your place, I probably wouldn't have put any of the symptoms together until she said that her brothers pulled her pants down, either. If the thought crossed my mind, I'd have put it off to being paranoid. You're a great mom, don't let anyone, esp your ex, tell you different! hug2.gif



^The bolded goes for me, too. A four year old acting up? Rubbing herself, even penetrating? Wants to wear loose clothing.....my three year old is a MESS of an individual right now. It's just a phase. She definitely has discovered self-pleasuring. I don't really think she penetrates herself, but I wouldn't freak if she did. Loose clothes, talking back, etc etc...none of that throws up red flags for me...UNTIL the pants being pulled down by teenage brothers. Then it all "clicks". :( I wouldn't have known either, mama.

post #107 of 143

I agree. Like the OP said, separate, all these instances don't seem alarming.  Once that last element of the boys pulling her pants down is introduced... THAT'S when these things seem more suspicious. 

I also understand her fear of overreacting... it's hard to gauge how to respond in a normal way when you've had such abnormal experiences with this sort of thing yourself. 

post #108 of 143

Well, not to say that I wouldn't look in to it, or perhaps even be concerned, but I also feel that some of these behaviors are consistent with anxiety and/or perhaps sensory issues.  Great that you are being aware and not putting your head in the sand in case something more serious is going on!!!

post #109 of 143
Thread Starter 

I called Daughter's previous pediatrician (where bro's are not affiliated) and got her an appointment.

I took grandma with me so she could wait with Daughter in the waiting room while I talked to doctor first.

Daughter freaked. She wouldn't let me out of her sight. Wouldn't let me talk to the doctor alone. I needed to talk to the doctor. I started to cry and I told the nurse, "I don't know what to do. Should I just walk away from her? I don't want to traumatize her but I need to talk to the doctor." The nurse said to just run into the exam room so Daughter couldn't see me. We thought she would calm down...

She SCREAMED. The nurse had to hold the waiting room door closed, dd was fighting to open it, became very aggressive and just screamed, "Noooooo! I want my mommy! Nooooooooo!"

I was in exam room just crying. I went back out cuz I couldn't handle that. Daughter saw me. The nurse stepped out of the way. Daughter was on the floor sitting. She continued to scream. She screamed, "I hate it here! I hate it!" She saw me and came running, hugged me...

I lost it. I cried. I fell to the ground. In front of all of the staff and ppl in the waiting room. I just fell and sobbed. Took Daughter into exam room with me. She held me so tight and just cried.

I was forced to talk to the doctor with Daughter present. I told the doctor everything that I knew. I told her of the specific stories that Daughter told me, that her dad calls her a liar. I tried to be as "nice" as I could be, tried to s-p-e-l-l things...I didn't want to talk about this in front of Daughter.

Daughter started inturupting me as I told the doctor about specific stories. Daughter took over and told the rest of the stories. She felt comfy with the doctor.

I told DD that it was important for the doctor to look at her vagina. We asked if it was okay. She agreed. I brought her favorite blanket and we covered her. She pulled her pants down for the doctor. But she got scared and wouldn't open her legs. I told the doctor that I didn't want to force her. DD decided she wanted to stop and we did.

Doctor told me that if I hadn't of already made a report that she def would have. She told me, "the only assurance we have right now is that DD hasn't said she was touched or hurt but there are many causes of concern." She assured me that I did the right thing. She believed me when I told her, "I know my kid and I know something is wrong..."

We left. I put grandma and DD in our car (to stay warm). I stepped away to smoke and text my friend....

When I got back in the car...

Grandma told me....

"DD just told me that 'mommy is my hero'."

I lost it. I just lost it. I buried my face into her carseat (was buckling her) and cried. But I tried to hide it from her. I took a deep breath and swallowed it.

"Mommy is my hero." She knows I'm trying to help her.

I no longer have any guilt. I stomped all over any guilt I had.

Right now I'm sad. Crushed. Devestated. Thinking of the who/what/where/when's...all the possibilities.

I'm in between crushed and boiling mad. I don't know which mood to fuel...I have so many emotions right now. So many thoughts.

I seriously cannot thank you ladies/guy's enough.

You helped me be her hero mecry.gif

The investigation is moving forward. 

post #110 of 143

You are a good, strong mama. Thank you for seeking help and support, and thank you for sharing your difficult journey. clap.gif we're here for you and your DD   grouphug.gif

post #111 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

You are a good, strong mama. Thank you for seeking help and support, and thank you for sharing your difficult journey. clap.gif we're here for you and your DD   grouphug.gif



This.

post #112 of 143
grouphug.gif

Your daughter is lucky to have you.
post #113 of 143

Very proud of you.  This is so hard to go through.  We are their voice and you're doing exactly what she needs you to do.  Be a fierce mama!joy.gif

post #114 of 143

That was a tearjerker post! Glad she is getting some help now. I hope CPS will really get  things moving as well.

post #115 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

You are a good, strong mama. Thank you for seeking help and support, and thank you for sharing your difficult journey. clap.gif we're here for you and your DD   grouphug.gif


yeahthat.gif hug2.gif

 

post #116 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by jess in hawaii View Post

You are a good, strong mama. Thank you for seeking help and support, and thank you for sharing your difficult journey. clap.gif we're here for you and your DD   grouphug.gif


Agree with the above.

 

What an amazing post. The tears are rolling here. You really got the ball rolling. You're definitely a hero.

 

One thing I want to add, the nurse that said to run to the room while you're daughter can't see you... bad advice... does not build trust.. She should always know where you will be, what you will be doing. No lies or tricks.  I still remember my first day of kindergarten my mom said she'd be right there at the window looking in at me she promised she wasn't going to leave.. As soon as I started working on something she left! I looked up and the face that was there a minute ago was GONE and I screamed bloody murder  lol   ... and still remember that deception to this day.   It might have been just as tough, but I would have much rather her told the truth. I'm not sure I ever trusted her again after that!

 

So glad to hear you stomped out your guilt... you go girl.  If that guilt ever comes back or he tries to make you doubt yourself you stomp that guilt right out again!

 

Advice about the dentist, we see an awesome pediatric dentist - my 3 yr old had a tooth extracted & they used the gas (nose piece) it REALLY relaxed him in less than a minute - it was piece of cake from that point on of course it was a quick procedure but he was very anxious does not like to open mouth for dentist (1st experience at another place was horrid!) - you might want to consider a specialist with the option for the nitrous oxide gas it completely calms anxiety. (this is not iv sedation... they are  conscious and awake and back to normal after the gas is removed)

post #117 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post

grouphug.gif
Your daughter is lucky to have you.


yeah!

post #118 of 143

Oh, mama. You are her hero. The fact that DD knows and acknowledges that you are standing up for her speaks volumes. Very proud of you. grouphug.gif

post #119 of 143

Way to go, OP. I started crying when I read "mommy is my hero". Of course you are! Your dd is lucky to have someone who is listening and paying attention.

post #120 of 143
Thread Starter 

Just a quick update. 

 

Thursday, my daughter went to the Children's Advocacy Center.  I do not know what she told them.  But she told them enough information for the investigator to come out and say....

 

 

"This will be an ongoing investigation.  We will notify the police.  The police will contact the perpetrator." 

 

 

That's all he told me. 

 

I all but lost my mind Thursday.  It was confirmation that my baby was hurt. 

 

 

I have calmed down.  DD and I are doing okay.  Trying to resume life as normal, not talking about it.  Our first therapy session is Tuesday (with SA therapist, referred by Advocacy Center).  I will ask the therapist what to say to dd.  I don't want to say the wrong thing. 

 

I'm in disbelief.  My mind is racing through thoughts and memories.  I could have done this, I could have done this better.  What if this?  What if that?  How could he allow this to happen?  How did I not see this coming?  I can't sleep, even with a PM.  Keep waking up, thoughts racing.  I just need my mind to "hush". 

 

Thank you all so very much for your help and support.  Thank you for urging me to call the hotline.  I was so terrified but you made me do it.  Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think.