Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think. - Page 8

[LROM]

I don't know what state you live in (and since some of these posts are searchable you probably don't need to tell me) but sometimes when you call CPS you either get a good worker who isn't getting the details that will make a case open-able... or sometimes it's not as good a worker and they don't recognize a problem when they see it in some cases. 

For now I have some advice for you... first off, I absolutely 100% agree with the lawyer you spoke to: do NOT let your daughter visit him, at all, period, end of story.  I think I read here that his name's not on the birth certificate, you were never married, don't know if there's ever been a blood test, and was he in her life consistently all these years... all those things go to whether he has visitation rights.  Sounds like right now, given the concerns, he doesn't, unless I'm missing something.

Next, do speak to these lawyers to find out how you protect your rights.  If you think it's healthiest to cut off contact, or to only have supervised visits in a neutral place... whatever you think in an ideal situation is best, get advice on the best way to get that.  And ask your lawyer if you should file a police report about what she said, even if the police wouldn't do anything.  Ask if there's a way to do it safely, since he's a local cop and of course you'd rather he not retaliate (i.e. can you report in another jurisdiction?  I don't think you can but you should ask anyway in case there's a way).

If you haven't already, sit down and right down EVERYTHING.  Write down all your concerns and red flags, when you first noticed them, the correlation with her visits with her dad, her separation anxiety, EVERYTHING.  It's always good to have the story in writing because you never know when you'll need to draw from it or even want to submit it to your lawyer or someone you trust.

Re: her separation anxiety, let me be clear that obviously I don't know what actually did or didn't happen between your daughter, your ex/her dad, and his sons.  But I DO know that often when children are abused, part of how the abuser keeps the victim silent is to tell them that if they speak up, they'll lose what they value most: in this case your daughter would lose you.  I would not be suprised at all if your ex didn't tell her that he'd arrest you or something else scary and terrible as a way to try to get her to shut up.  Maybe that's not what happened... but given the flags on this, I wouldn't be suprised if that's exactly what happened.  Especially if he's a cop.

Have you ever asked your daughter whether anyone's ever asked her to keep a secret, especially a secret she didn't want to keep but she was afraid to tell?  And what she was afraid would happen if she told?  If you haven't asked her, you should.  Sometimes that is a question that can help open the door to more truth about what she's been through, if there's anything she hasn't told you yet.

Best of luck mama.  Sorry CPS closed it already, but who knows, it could be they really didn't have enough to go on yet, since she hasn't disclosed.  But that's why you need to write down all her behaviors and especially the timeline between when she visited her dad and noticing the penetration and other behaviors (you mentioned her getting more difficult to deal with, etc) and any anxiety/upset she showed when it was time to go visit her dad.  Write ALL that down.

Heaven forbid you ever need to report to CPS again, but having this will make it much more effective a report.

[LROM]

Oh, I forgot one last piece of advice, but it's important: be clear, this is just my personal opinion, and a hunch, but you be the judge: If I were in your shoes, and I was afraid of my ex, and with all this going on, I don't think I'd tell him the reason he's not getting visits is your concern about abuse.  Even if he's aware a report was made (which maybe he's not), I would just say you're concerned about your dd's behavior and you are trying to really focus on her and supporting her, so you are limiting a lot of what she does right now.

I don't know if he'll protest or how long that will hold him off, but things would probably get trickier much faster if he was aware you're following up on concerns that he or his sons (or all of them) may have abused her.

So maybe just generally say you've got concerns about her behavior and you are limiting her activities for awhile.

Last thing, have you made sure the school knows he is never to pick her up or drop her off or even see her at the school?  As the custodial parent, if he isn't not her father on record, you can say that he's not to have contact with her at school or ever pick her up or talk to her.  And maybe talk to her about how she feels about not seeing him for awhile, and tell her (if you think it's the right thing to do) that no matter what she's afraid of, you will do everything you can to never be separated from her so if he finds a way to talk to her and says anything that scares her, she should always always tell you immediately.  And if it's true he has no rights, be clear with her that she NEVER has to go with him if he shows up somewhere suddenly.  She can say no, and it's even good to have a safety plan, like what should she do if she's walking home from school or getting off the school bus and he's there?

I don't want to scare you, or have you scare her, but if you talk to her in matter of fact, general safety language and assure her you're not going anywhere, it will help her deal better if he gets upset that he can't see her and tries to see her without permission.

[jmarroq]

OK, so I finally read the whole thread. I guess the part I wrote about getting a cop to go with you if you are afraid of her dad...that doesn't really apply...he IS a local cop! UGH!

I know some moms were upset that I that I didn't understand why the daughter was allowed to go to his house in the first place, with him being such a horrible person and having no claim to her (not on birth cert...not married...etc)...didn't mean to offend...if you keep reading, I did say that she probably did things out of fear due to the fact that she was a victim of abuse, etc...and that it was good that she was finally getting help.

OP, from your last few posts, sounds like things are getting much better. You filed the report, have managed to keep her from her dad's house, daughter seems to be adjusting well, behavior seems better, you're both in therapy, investigation is ongoing... You must be so proud of yourself!!

Originally Posted by jmarroq 

Major red flags. Like you said, some of the stuff is probably nothing...kids get UTIs sometimes, but put it all together and it's bad.

Be careful about the recording and such. Heard a similar case in CA and it backfired on the mom. Get a good attorney, and a good therapist...second opinions. They need to evaluate her immediately after there is abuse suspected or the credibility of the claims won't hold up in court....too many people can contaminate the case by talking to her about it before the evaluation. Sounds like you already had the evaluations..but you may need an expert in that area who can get some answers out of her...and it might be too late for that. I mean, you should still do it so you can get answers and help her, but it may not hold up in court.  

I think there is more to this story. What doesn't sit right with me is the fact that you let her see him to begin with when he has no legal rights to her....not just see him...spend 4 days with him! His name isn't even on the birth certificate? Why not? Sounds like he didn't want to be involved at that point...then changed his mind. Too bad. He needs to get a DNA test if he wants any claim to her. Please tell me there is a chance he may not be the real daddy!! 

If you really wanted her to see bio dad, you could have gone with her. Don't trust her with someone like that. Sounds like he was still manipulating and verbally abusing you and you were too scared to tell him "no". You needed to seek help to protect you and your daughter. Sounds like you have finally come around and are realizing that.

Maybe because of your past history with sexual and verbal abuse, you weren't able to see that you were putting your daughter at risk for letting her go see this irresponsible, horrible person...who was basically a stranger since you can't ever really know a liar...and his two stranger sons. It wouldn't surprise me if his son's turned out to be monsters...product of their environment. Keep in mind that dad may know of the abuse, and may be protecting them. Do you know anything about these boys she was staying with? Have they been in trouble before? Have they been sexually abused? 

With the way he treats her (leaves her with brothers, doesn't provide appropriate supervision, etc.), it sounds like he doesn't really care about her...only wants visitation because he knows it annoys you. Using her as a pawn.

You gave her the cell phone because she said she cries for you and her dad won't let her call you...then she calls you with the cell phone, and you hear him being irresponsible by letting a 4 yr old stay up at midnight to watch violent R rated films, and then she calls you an hour later, crying, saying she is scared....I don't know that I would have waited for that second phone call. What held you back from going to save her at that point? Fear? Maybe you could have brought a cop with you knowing it might get ugly. The cop could probably get him for kidnapping if it came to that.

It probably feels good to finally be able to put your foot down and protect your little girl. Stay strong and keep it up!