Two therapists told me there are "red flags of abuse"...tell me what you think. - Page 3

[churndash]

Oh my god. I want to vomit.

SOMEBODY IS RAPING YOUR BABY.

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE POLICE NOW.

I am physically sickened that your pediatrician and these therapists, mandated reporters all, haven't called the cops already.

What more do you need? A videotape of your child being molested?

You are living in denial and your child is the one suffering. For a YEAR this baby has been abused. OMFG. Wake up!

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by eclipse 


Everything the OP has said about her father indicates that he's abusive on some level, too. Perhaps not sexually, but in other ways. He's emotionally manipulating the OP with the dying grandma stuff. The OP has said she's scared of him. If the father's teen sons are sexually abusing this little girl, there's a high probablility that they are acting out something that was done to them as children. The OP needs to think about who might have done that to them.
OP - CPS is your friend in this situation, for real. There's a good chance the doctor has or will be calling them him/herself. If you are proactive about calling them, it will show that you are taking it seriously and reduce the risk of your daughter being removed from your care while CPS sorts it out.
Please, please, please stop referring to your daughter telling you she was abused as "lying," even if that's what her father calls it. Your daughter can hear you when you talk.

I had to say "lying" with the doctor.  Her dad was present.  I was scared.  I later pulled Daughter aside and told her I do believe her.  She knows that I believe her. 

Originally Posted by eclipse 

Why was there an agreement that she not be left in the care of her brothers in the first place? Did you have concerns about them before? Again, I'm not asking to point the finger of blame at you - but you need to start writing anything down that you can think of that could be signs that there have been problems.

This was my hang up.  From my past, I've never been comfortable with his sons to babysit her.  I have a SA past.  It haunts me.  Her dad promised he'd never leave her alone with them or anyone else.  He lied.  And now our child is having all of these signs.  :(
 

Originally Posted by eclipse 


What you do is you call CPS and they get to be the bad guys and say she's not allowed over there, if you're worried about saying it yourself. And don't be so sure her dad has nothing to do with this. You say you know it in your heart - but you don't know it with your head, and that's what's important here. Your instincts have been failing you - don't trust them. Trust the professionals. The fact that there's another little girl living in this house makes it doubly important that you call CPS ASAP. If you don't, you will be partially responsible if that child is being abused and you do nothing to stop it. Seriously. Get off the internet and get on the phone to CPS and/or the police.

Awesome!  I hadn't thought of it like that.  I called the DCFS (here in Illinois, not CPS) office Thursday or Friday.  I left a message for my friend to call me.  I don't have her personal phone number anymore. 

I was hoping that she could open a case, annoymously.  I'm scared.  Daughter saw doctor on Monday and I would think that if doctor called CPS, they would have already contacted me.  I'm just scared to call with my name and open a case.  You don't know him. 

[meemee]

butterflybaby  this must be so hard for you. in every respect. i know hwat its like with an emotional abuser ex. even after 7 years mine is still the same. i've been successful in putting distance between us, but its taken a lot of inner searching and personal growth stuff to not be affected by him. the distance sure helps. however with my ex i know he is a good father and tries his best with dd. i completely trust him with her - even though he is so mean to me. in 3rd grade dd's teacher had to talk to him about badmouthing me in front of dd(he stopped thankfully).

he does not need any more explanations than you have already given him. stand your ground. try to appear cool and calm and dont fall into his trap of tyring to get a reaction out of you. that serves no one. i KNOW how hard that is to do.

right now your dd is home safe with you. i am sure between your gma and you - you guys are trying to figure out what plan of action to move forward with. 

[txbikegrrl]

I am another person who is very concerned about all those red flags.  So now that you've gotten confirmation what is your plan?

Here we have a place called Children's Assessment Center they only work on cases of possible abuse and everyone is very well trained.  They would not hold down a child, videotape all interviews and provide free therapy.  Access is via CPS only.  I'm not sure why your pedi or those therapists have not called, or of they did why it is taking so long, but yu need to call yourself, explain two professionals have determined there is red flag behavior NOW and ask how to get the process moving along quickly.

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by churndash 

Oh my god. I want to vomit.

SOMEBODY IS RAPING YOUR BABY.

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND GO TO THE POLICE NOW.

I am physically sickened that your pediatrician and these therapists, mandated reporters all, haven't called the cops already.

What more do you need? A videotape of your child being molested?

You are living in denial and your child is the one suffering. For a YEAR this baby has been abused. OMFG. Wake up!

Hey now.  Just a minute.  A UTI, a nervous tic and sensory issues doesn't scream "danger".  When my daughter alarmed me, I took action immediately...took the steps I thought were correct (and they're outlined here a few posts back).  I didn't connect any of these together until she alarmed me. 

I am at work.  She is safe, with my grandma.  AND HE IS A DAMN COP WORKING IN THE TOWN WHERE I WORK AND MY GRANDMA LIVES.  This will be handled, trust me.  But I have to do it the way I feel is safer.  The DCFS office will open tomorrow and I will be their first customer of the day, I promise. 
 

[matte]

You need to call the police NOW. If you are scared to do so, pm me the relevant info and I'll make an anonymous call for you.

Your poor baby suffers MUCH more when you deny it.

[txbikegrrl]

OkaY so dad being a cop, makes sure you let CPS know and ask what protocol(s) they have in place to ensure there is no preferential treatment for a fellow officer.

[meemee]

oh dear. we are all cross posting all over the place.

good luck OP. let us know how things went tomorrow. i will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you. 

and we will all be waiting for an update.

good luck. 

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by jess in hawaii 

OP- you are doing what you need to do, I hear that. I have a friend IRL who is going through this too. Her process started about three weeks ago, and I have been one of her main supports, so I totally get that you are trying to do the right thing, but it's confusing and scary and hard to know exactly what steps to take and when. My friend got proactive on the police and CPS fronts, and that will help her in the long run, but it was a few days of deliberating agonizing before she could come to grips with doing it and she had her therapist friend go with her. Being in a state of shock is understandable, but you do need to move past it and really get things moving, not just wait for the therapist, dr. etc. After reading the PPs' comments and as you have divulged a bit more, I do think you should contact the police and CPS. They are your allies in this, and you need allies.

PS what he is doing to you with the guilt trips and manipulation is Gaslighting. He is trying to make you doubt reality. I think you should not talk to him anymore, at least for the time being. If you have to communicate, use text or email, keep it simple, to the point, facts only. And as you know, DOCUMENT!

Thank you.  I tried called the office today but they were closed for MLK.  I will call them first thing tomorrow.  I'm surprised my therapist didn't make an annoymous call.  Maybe she did.  But they will be involved one way or another, I promise.  My therapist did say, though, that Daughter has to say the "magic words" to HER therapist before they involve DCFS.  So..that's why I hadn't called immediately.  That's why I left the message for my friend, instead of opening a case right then and there. 

Originally Posted by meemee 

oh dear. we are all cross posting all over the place.

good luck OP. let us know how things went tomorrow. i will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you. 

and we will all be waiting for an update.

good luck. 

Thank you.  I will update tomorrow. 

[joensally]

Originally Posted by ButterflyBaby11 

Thank you.  I tried called the office today but they were closed for MLK.  I will call them first thing tomorrow.  I'm surprised my therapist didn't make an annoymous call.  Maybe she did.  But they will be involved one way or another, I promise.  My therapist did say, though, that Daughter has to say the "magic words" to HER therapist before they involve DCFS.  So..that's why I hadn't called immediately.  That's why I left the message for my friend, instead of opening a case right then and there. 

Thank you.  I will update tomorrow. 

Please consider getting a new therapist.  It's not the therapist's job to assess for child sexual abuse - it needs to be referred to the authorities who can ensure that the process is handled properly, to protect the child and to increase the likelihood of conviction.

I'm glad you're contacting them tomorrow.  Something is going on with your daughter, and a different group of professionals with better insight need to be involved to figure out what's happening.

Good luck to you.  This must be unbelievably painful.

[eclipse]

If your daughter's ped and your therapist haven't called CPS, you need new care providers. They are mandated reporters and they are seriously dropping the ball here.

[meemee]

you know we dont know what's going on. perhaps the wheels are in motion. but because the child is with the mom and is safe they are not rushing into it? 

i am not sure exactly what will happen? the police or CPS go knock on the dad's door and say we have some questions for your son? wouldnt they want to first make sure this is a legitimate concern before they move forward?

i am not expecting a lot of fireworks to take place. 

[canadianhippie]

wow

so glad youve made your calls, that went on way to long, waaaay to long

do not take that lightly!!!!!!!! please!!!! 

oh my im feeling for your daughter right now, and you, dont be afraid to speak up, she is depending on you to do so 

in my future profession absolutely any signs MUST be immediately reported

finished reading the jaycee duggard story, alot of calls/signs were ignored 

calling the police will get you immediate CAS involvement and press charges! my god your passive about this 

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by meemee 

you know we dont know what's going on. perhaps the wheels are in motion. but because the child is with the mom and is safe they are not rushing into it? 

i am not sure exactly what will happen? the police or CPS go knock on the dad's door and say we have some questions for your son? wouldnt they want to first make sure this is a legitimate concern before they move forward?

i am not expecting a lot of fireworks to take place. 

Exactly.  My therapist told me what to expect.  My daughter has to tell them "the magic words" before the therapist involves the authorities.  She hasn't even told ME "the magic words". 

Originally Posted by canadianhippie 

wow

so glad youve made your calls, that went on way to long, waaaay to long

do not take that lightly!!!!!!!! please!!!! 

oh my im feeling for your daughter right now, and you, dont be afraid to speak up, she is depending on you to do so 

in my future profession absolutely any signs MUST be immediately reported

finished reading the jaycee duggard story, alot of calls/signs were ignored 

calling the police will get you immediate CAS involvement and press charges! my god your passive about this 

I've removed her from harm.  She is safe.  There are no physical signs of abuse.  Cops are not therapists...they don't know what to ask my daughter, not that she would talk to them anyway.  For the time being, I'm following the advice of my therapist.  The difference, is I'm not waiting for my daughter to say "the magic words" before involving the PROPER authority...I will call them tomorrow.  DCFS will be the first call in the morning.  Calling the cops IS useless, especially when HER DAD would be the responding officer.  Don't start turning this into a "bad mother thread" cuz that is complete BS and I don't need badgering right now. 

[eclipse]

I think it makes sense to not call the police in your town if her father works for them. It is very important that you tell the DCFS worker that her father is an officer in your jurisdiction and ask them how they will handle it so that it's taken care of in the best interest of your daughter.

I think your therapist is full of crap, though. There are no "magic words." If a mandated reporter (like your therapist) suspects abuse, they have to report it. She doesn't need to hear anything directly from your daughter. If you told her the things you told us, that should be enough. Her pediatrician should also have reported it.

[meemee]

i am with you eclipse. what are these magic words they want out of the mouth of a babe. i know they have a series of words and behaviours - but one magic word. that makes no sense to me. 
 

Originally Posted by canadianhippie 

calling the police will get you immediate CAS involvement and press charges! my god your passive about this 

you know RL is not like it is in shows or the news. nothing happens immediately. things will move slowly and surely. but first they have to establish if there is a case or not. 

OP could well be a crazy mom trying to malign another child. i cant remember now but even in the Penn State situation didnt they remove the coach after they had established proof that he had molested? they didnt go arrest him right away did they?
 

[joensally]

I am not badgering you or calling you a bad mother.  You sound overwhelmed.  And sad.

I work in children's services.  Your daughter is clearly telling you, through her words and behaviour, that something is amiss.  Help her.  Involve professionals who can help her.  Frankly, you seem to be 0 for 2 with the two you've involved.  If the ped called last Monday, you would have been contacted by now almost certainly.  The ped and therapist are mandated reporters.  There are no "magic words" that a child needs to utter.  That's nonsense, and I'm pretty sure whatever board licenses her would be interested in knowing that she's made up some cockamamie threshold for when she needs to report.

Here is information for your state:

http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/faq/faq_faq_can.shtml

Here's the hotline number. You could try it now.  Your friend is not going to be able to open an anonymous report, and ethically should hand this over to a colleague immediately.  And how long would it stay anonymous?  There will be a process.

1-800-25-ABUSE (Illinois)

[joensally]

Originally Posted by meemee 

i am with you eclipse. what are these magic words they want out of the mouth of a babe. i know they have a series of words and behaviours - but one magic word. that makes no sense to me. 
 

you know RL is not like it is in shows or the news. nothing happens immediately. things will move slowly and surely. but first they have to establish if there is a case or not. 

OP could well be a crazy mom trying to malign another child. i cant remember now but even in the Penn State situation didnt they remove the coach after they had established proof that he had molested? they didnt go arrest him right away did they?
 

They would be talking to mom and child.

Mom needs to report.
 

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by eclipse 

I think it makes sense to not call the police in your town if her father works for them. It is very important that you tell the DCFS worker that her father is an officer in your jurisdiction and ask them how they will handle it so that it's taken care of in the best interest of your daughter.
I think your therapist is full of crap, though. There are no "magic words." If a mandated reporter (like your therapist) suspects abuse, they have to report it. She doesn't need to hear anything directly from your daughter. If you told her the things you told us, that should be enough. Her pediatrician should also have reported it.

Well, if they did, nobody has contacted me.  I even mopped today, expecting a knock at my door.  Today the offices were closed for MLK but I cleaned my house today with the assumption that DCFS would be knocking on my door tomorrow...either because someone else called them or because I called them.  I'm ready.  I'm ready for a fight.  I've already made the first steps to protect my daughter.  The sad thing is, in the eyes of the law, "nothing" has happened.  So, she was left alone with her brothers...so?  So, she has a sensory disorder...and?  So, she said her brothers pulled her pants down (and dad says it didn't happen)...so?  Based on what HAS happened, if I tried to make a police report the cop would look at me like I was crazy.  DCFS would be my best bet to protecting her.  That's where I'm starting.  I called them Thursday, left a message.  I called Friday and the person I was trying to contact was out of the office.  I called today but they were closed.  The only thing I did "wrong" was not talk to "anyone" there.  I specifically want to talk to someone special and get her opinion off the record to see what step I should take next.  But Daughter is safe...this is not an exigent circumstance.  Daughter has been penetrating herself all week.  If she was examined....surprise!...they would find that she's been penetrated.  The last time she could have been harmed was tues/wed.  By now, any evidence (if any) is long gone. 

[ButterflyBaby11]

Originally Posted by joensally 

I am not badgering you or calling you a bad mother.  You sound overwhelmed.  And sad.

I work in children's services.  Your daughter is clearly telling you, through her words and behaviour, that something is amiss.  Help her.  Involve professionals who can help her.  Frankly, you seem to be 0 for 2 with the two you've involved.  If the ped called last Monday, you would have been contacted by now almost certainly.  The ped and therapist are mandated reporters.  There are no "magic words" that a child needs to utter.  That's nonsense, and I'm pretty sure whatever board licenses her would be interested in knowing that she's made up some cockamamie threshold for when she needs to report.

Here is information for your state:

http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/faq/faq_faq_can.shtml

Here's the hotline number. You could try it now.  Your friend is not going to be able to open an anonymous report, and ethically should hand this over to a colleague immediately.  And how long would it stay anonymous?  There will be a process.

1-800-25-ABUSE (Illinois)

I am overwhelmed.  Sad is an understatement. 

I'm calling right now.