Pregnant and Reevaluating Please Help!

[eternamariposa]

I am pregnant with my third child with about 6 more weeks to go in my pregnancy.  My first two children, 5 and 2, have not been vaccinated up to this point.  I chose originally to delay and separate, using single dose preservative free vaccines only and as I researched more I hesitated more and once my son began having febrile seizures I was decided: no vaccines.

Our circumstances have changed and I am not really sure to evaluate how they should change our stance on vaccines and I would really appreciate a good place to start and things to ponder.  Here is what is different:

We have a child in school now and we leave our kids at a church nursery weekly, this is new.

The big one, my husband is an active firefighter/paramedic here in South Florida where we have a large immigrant population.

  He is vaccinated and keeps up to date on his boosters for professional reasons.

I am studying to be a nurse.

Thank you so much for your input!

[Marnica]

IMO I don't think anything you have listed anything that would make me change my mind. I still know what I know. My son has been in daycare since he was 3 months old...I don't see how whether or not you leave your child in a daycare or if an older sibling goes to school is particularly relevant to whether you choose to vaccinate or not. Kids exposed to greater numbers of kids via school or daycare will likely get sicker more often with regular run of the mill colds ect until their immume system has been built up. If you feel that your husband would be a vector of disease in that he would expose your children to certian VPD's based on his job, you have already said he is up to date on all of his vaccines so that shouldn't be an issue and Im not sure how the fact that you are studying to be a nurse is relevant either. Maybe you can elaborate on what your fears are in regards to these changes??

[stik]

While febrile seizures might make me not want to vaccinate, two parents on the front-lines of any potential VPD outbreaks in the community would.  I would certainly make sure you and your dh stay up-to-date to help limit exposure.  Kids usually outgrow febrile seizures, and barring an outbreak of a VPD in the community, I would probably want to put off vaxing until later.  

[emmy526]

here is a link to the inserts so you can see the poison they deem is "safe" to inject into your child:

http://vactruth.com/vaccine-inserts/

Here are some things to consider about vaccinating....good luck and keep posting with questions.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vaccination:

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18 DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORHqEedtUY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/pink-chapters.htm

http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552&q

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6351515212287981735&hl=en

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf


WHO GRAPH-http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tsincidencepol.htm


Beyond Conformity Resources Page- http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/resources

Do you have a quick-fire summary?- http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/questions#

Inside Vaccines- http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

http://het.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/04/0960327111407644.full.pdf+html
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf

http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm

[stik]

I encourage everyone to download the MMWR.  It makes great bathroom reading.  I especially enjoyed the case report on the drum maker who got Anthrax from black-market goat hides.  It was a while back, but it was a classic.  PLUS, BONUS! Tons of Stats!  Fresh from the CDC!  I use it to track cases of plague and human rabies in the US, because those are my favorites.  

The CDC pink book is not particularly gripping, but you've got it listed twice.  And while I agree that it's pretty damn cool that the WHO put all that info on numbers of cases of diseases by country online for folks to ogle (I will certainly keep those numbers in mind when considering travel to China), I think many readers would benefit from some helpful context, like when vaxes for those diseases were introduced, and where those vaxes are available.  Likewise, despite my love of raw numbers, I don't think many people are going to be able to get much out of the VAERS CSV raw data file at the site you linked.  

Since this is a forum for parents just starting to consider their decisions, and since many parents are already juggling work and childcare, is there a shorter process you could recommend?  Maybe not so overwhelming for those new to the issue?  

[Taximom5]

The site www.14studies.org discusses in detail the serious flaws in the 14 studies that purport to show no link between vaccines and autism. 

This page http://www.14studies.org/ourstudies.html discusses the studies that support a connection between vaccines and autism and other disorders.

[eternamariposa]

To answer Marnica, I typically agree with you that added exposure to other children just results in greater colds and flu's and the like, I am just wondering if there is anything that I am sort of being overly casual about like meningitis for example.  The only vaccines that I have been pulled toward that I feel a little uneasy avoiding are for whopping cough-but minimally because of ebf- tetanus, and meningitis.  Honestly as I am typing this, I feel like my thoughts are being clarified a little bit and I think that what I really am after is information that will keep my husband convinced that at least delaying and selectively vaccinating is the right thing to do because he has sort of been following my lead in a shaky way on this from the beginning. But he has never been one to run out and do research either.

 

 

[stik]

I put off meningitis for my older dd and never worried about it.  I might do it with a kid who has a lot of trouble with ear infections or infections that go systemic and cause pneumonia.  That's not one I worry so much about.  

Tetanus you can do after exposure.  He won't get it from other kids.  

I'm vigilant about pertussis because my dd has asthma, but it's not one of the more effective vaccines, and hcps with known exposure (and their families) usually wind up being prescribed prophylactic abx after known exposure regardless of vax status.  I'd be worried about an infant getting it, but that's another I feel relatively comfortable delaying with no local outbreak.

The vax rates in the US are generally good enough that you can lean on herd immunity, especially when you have an issue like febrile seizures.  

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by eternamariposa 

To answer Marnica, I typically agree with you that added exposure to other children just results in greater colds and flu's and the like, I am just wondering if there is anything that I am sort of being overly casual about like meningitis for example.  The only vaccines that I have been pulled toward that I feel a little uneasy avoiding are for whopping cough-but minimally because of ebf- tetanus, and meningitis.  Honestly as I am typing this, I feel like my thoughts are being clarified a little bit and I think that what I really am after is information that will keep my husband convinced that at least delaying and selectively vaccinating is the right thing to do because he has sort of been following my lead in a shaky way on this from the beginning. But he has never been one to run out and do research either.

 

 

Meningitis is pretty darn rare.....and the bigger issue for me with prevnar in particular is serotype replacement. As for pertussis, The DTap is the first vaccine I looked into and I wouldn't touch this vaccine with a 10 foot pole. Initially what put me off was the fact that a baby I knew died within 14 hrs of receiving this shot. SIDS they called it. I know it was the shot that killed her, her family knows it is too. Anecdotal and unprovable yes, doesn't mean it's not true. What I have discovered since is that this vaccine is largely ineffective, does not prevent transmission and once a child reaches 6 months (which is when they would supposedly be protected anyway), WC is not as dangerous as it is a nuisance. I also have learned alot about how to treat it so should it ever visit out house, I am fairly confident we could get through it unscathed. It really is for me just that the risks outweigh what meager benefits this vaccine provides. As for tetanus, very rare, not contagious and not a concern 99% of the time if you tend to a wound properly.
 

[Tanya Dehmer]

I have 3 boys ages 3-8. My oldest was fully vaccinated when he was 5 in order to attend public school in NY. (from the vax he got hives & a fever and shortly after, pneumonia) He also went to school here in AZ for a short time but we did not maintain immunizations. My other son attended preschool and all though my kids are now homeschooled, all of their friends are public school kids. 

Im studying to be a midwife and am hoping to work with the inner city population. I will not be immunizing my children and will only get required vax for myself ( if any). 

My grandfather is a physiology professor and told me vax are not needed for the majority of the population. If you're going overseas or there are increasing numbers of cases, assess as needed.

Check out Dr Furhman's book, Disease Proof Your Children. I haven't read it yet, but plan to...

Congratulations and good luck on your search(: 

[mkreager]

I have 3 children from 3 months to 3.5 years. I use the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book to make my decisions. Pretty unbiased with 13years of research laid out in a great format. Love it and I am very happy with my personal schedule baised on our circumstances.

[mkreager]

The book has the answers to almost all of the questions listed above too.