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best charting systems

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone!   I looked through the forums a bit and couldn't find a current question like this, but I am sure it's out there somewhere...so sorry for the repeat, if it is one!!!!

 

I might start with a little about myself...   I have been TCC for about 5 or so months.  All I have noticed about my cycle is a 7 day "on" then a week and a few days go by, then I test positive on a ovulation test for about two days, then a little over a week and it starts over.  I think I am 29-31 days total. I am also starting to lightly bleed during the middle of my cycle.  (I know this is horrible tracking bag.gif)

 

So, due to the difficulty I am having, I would like to be able to say exactly when I am ovulating.  I would like an online charting system, but there are so many out there....any suggestion on which one might work best for me.  I would like to do temp, CM, Ovulation test...anything really.  Thanks for any tips!!!!!  shy.gif

post #2 of 19

I have used Fertility Friend from the start and love it, they are very helpful on the site with teaching you how to do everything and you can record all those things you want and then some smile.gif   

Only bit of advice with them is to make sure you record as much as you can! The more info they have the better and it will be the most accurate for you.

The VIP on there isn't necessary but fun to take the free trial when they offer!

post #3 of 19

This is my first cycle using fertility friend and if it is correct I should be pregnant this cycle, should know in about a week.

post #4 of 19

Hello!

 

I've used Fertility Friend from the start also, and totally agree with pastrypuff. There's a ton you can do on there, lots of recording options and I also have the iPhone app so I can record my temps onto my phone when I temp in the early morning. 

 

I also actually use Taking Charge Of Your Fertility, which perhaps sounds a little crazy to do two...haha. The reason I started was because they will let you set things to estimate your temp if you temp at a different time for some reason, or set it to remove outlying temps that seem weird. Because I'm fairly new to temping, I like having the two to compare - one that's totally raw data, and one that's more looking for a pattern. I don't think I'll continue with both forever, but for now it's nice getting a clear picture of what my body is doing. 

 

Hope this helps!

post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone!  I signed up for fertility friend and might look into taking charge.  Do people link their chart in their signatures?  How do people generally do the share/compare/advise?  I some people who are opening threads, should I just do that or....?   redface.gif   thanks.gif

post #6 of 19

Fertility Friend didn't work for me, I actually ovulated 10 days past the day they predicted I ovulated,  and I was doing a full chart. We just have to stick to "old fashioned" BD'ing every other day smile.gif

post #7 of 19

Mom2010 - That's great! I'm the threadkeeper for a thread called The ONE Thread, that encompasses a whole range of people TTC, if you want to come check it out? Here's the link http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1342826/the-one-thread-jan-22-29/100#post_16851331 We put everyone and their chart on the initial post so everyone can compare charts, support each other, vent, etc. Cassandraz hangs out there, too - it's a great group!

post #8 of 19

Hi Mom2010, welcome to MDC!!  wave.gif

 

I also use Fertility Friend (FF) and find it quite useful.  I do not rely on it to predict my O, nor to I 100% agree with it's interpretation of my chart every cycle.  However, it's great for keeping track of information and being able to share your charts with others on sites like this so that you can get advice about your O day or other things that may be happening in your cycle.  The more cycles you enter, the better it gets at predicting for you since it has more data to create averages.  But, again, I never rely on it fully.  I still use my own charting knowledge to interpret my charts.  You can paste the url to your FF site in your siggy, but you cannot put a hyperlink in your siggy- only site contributers can do that now.  I find it helpful when people post the actual link in their posts when asking a question so that I can quickly click on it instead of copying and pasting from their siggy.

 

If you'd like more information about charting, please just post.  I have summarized the basics in a long post that I can paste here as well.

 

As for the info you provided about your cycle, I'm a bit confused.  What do you mean by a week and a few days of "on?"  Is that the time between the end of AF and when you test positive on an OPK?  If OPK's are working for you (and they do not work for a lot of women!), then you should ovulate within 24-36 hours of the darkest positive.  The time between O and AF is called your luteal phase (LP) and it is generally agreed that you need at least 10 days to sustain a pregnancy.  You mentioned that AF arrives a little over a week after your OPK+... is that correct?  If so, that means your LP is quite short.. maybe only 7 days long.  IF this is the case, this is almost certainly why you are not getting pregnant.  You are very wise to start full time charting so that you can figure out what is going on!  Mid-cycle spotting is also not common.  Do you mean spotting around the time of OPK+, before or after?  Ovulation spotting is rare, but can happen.  Spotting at any other time is not normal and would likely be a sign of the same fluctuating hormones that could be causing a short LP.  Definitely keep us updated so that we can help you interpret what's happening and give suggestions for solving any problems that might be occurring!  Good luck!

post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 

Jaimee:  Thanks!  I am going to try to link my chart.  It is not much of one.  The first couple of months are from memory and the most recent month is the most accurate.  I think that you got it right and am interested in knowing more about why my LP phase being so short might be the cause.  Thanks for any additional advice!!!    http://www.fertillityfriend.com/home/babyhopes2012  I hope the link works.  Let me know if it doesn't.  But if AF is the same as CD1 then I have noticed that I have a AF time frame of about a week, then a week will go by, the middle of the next week I will usually pop positive of a Ovulation test OPK?, then then end of that week goes by, plus one more week, then I will have AF again.  So, Week 1 = AF, Week 2 = nothing, Week 3 = OPK+, Week 4 = nothing, repeat.  

post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 

<a href="http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/babyhopes2012">My Ovulation Chart</a>

 

Okay, gonna try again.  The charts seem weird to me but hopefully you can make since of them help.gif tiphat.gif

post #11 of 19

The link works.  First I'm going to paste in the post I was talking about regarding charting.  It's a summary of how to chart to help you get going with temping and CF.

 

********************

 

The first day of red blood is cycle day 1.  Pick up a copy of Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler at the library (or buy it).  You don't need to read it cover to cover to get started, but it really is an excellent resource.

 

You can pick up a basal body thermometer (BBT) at your local drug store.  Some are better than others.  I prefer ones that take longer than 30 seconds (they seem more accurate to me) and can hold two temperatures in memory (this is especially handy when you wake up, temp, and go back to sleep- you can look at and record the temp later).  The Walgreens thermometer gets generally bad reviews.  BD gets good reviews. 

 

When temping you want to focus on a few things: taking it at the same time each morning (within 30 minutes); taking it after a solid block of sleep (3 hours is usually recommended); and making sure that you don't get out of bed, sit up, drink water, or fall asleep before or while temping.  So basically you just wake up, roll over, temp, and go back to sleep or get up. 

 

Some women are really sensitive to changes in sleep patterns or ambient temperature (like if your room is hot one morning and not the next or you wake up snuggled under a warm blanket and the next are out of the covers).  But other women find that they can see their pattern despite numerous night wakings, not getting a 3 hour block of sleep prior to temping, or environmental changes.  Other things that can affect temp- pretty much the same things that can delay ovulation: travel, stress, diet changes, injury, illness, and strenuous exercise.

 

Next, cervical fluid (CF) is something you can observe throughout the day- whenever you feel it, whenever you see it (while wiping, on your panties), etc.  Here is my general guide to CF:

 

Dry: you'll feel dry all day and there is nothing on your panties

Sticky: you'll generally feel dry and there will be a bit of staining- usually yellow- on your panties.  It might be a bit crumbly or clumpy.

Creamy: generally you'll feel a little wet, lotiony in texture, could be slippery when you wipe, often it will stand up on your panties

Wet: you'll feel wet and your panties will likely be wet- maybe even soak through, may look like skim milk (I rarely get this)

Eggwhite: you might actually feel it slipping out of you throughout the day and it might fall out of you while using the bathroom, stretchy- it may stretch from you to the TP for several inches- and usually clear or yellow tinted, often quite profuse

 

Temp and CF are the two basic fertility signs you need to chart.  There are other signs you can record like cervical position (CP), but it's not necessary unless your temps and CF are not showing a clear pattern.

 

So what you're going to see is a group of low temps from the start of AF, which is cycle day 1 (CD 1) until the day after ovulation (O) when you should see a spike in temp or steady climb to a higher group of temps.  The days between O and AF are called your luteal phase (LP).  Generally it is said that you need at least 10 days to sustain a pregnancy.  The average length is 12-14 days.  Your LP will not vary much- usually just by one or two days cycle to cycle.  But your O day could vary considerably.  So when you see O on your chart you can then predict when AF should show based on your average LP length.  If you go 3 days past your longest LP length then that is an excellent sign of pregnancy.  If you get 18 high temps after O that is 99% accurate- just like an HPT.

 

Likewise your CF will go from dry just after AF to sticky, to creamy, to EW as O approaches.  You may or may not go through all the different types of CF prior to O or you could skip from dry to creamy or dry to EW.  You might have many days of creamy and one or two of EW or you might have 3 or 4 days of EW with hardly any creamy.  It all depends on the woman and that particular cycle.  But after O you will dry up.  It could be instantaneous- like the day of the spike you're dry.  Or it could decrease slower- EW to creamy to stick to dry.  But usually you will dry up within a few days and then may or may not experience a few more days of creamy or even wet/EW later in your LP, just prior to AF.

 

Anyway, that should get you started!  Post if you have questions and use www.fertilityfriend.com to share your chart!  Good luck!

 

*************

 

Okay, as for your charts it looks like you had an OPK+ on CD14 and got AF 11 days later.  If you O'd on CD15, that would give you a 9 day LP, which could be causing problems for you.  As I mentioned above, your LP will only vary 1-2 days so you could be having 7-9 day LP's, 9-11 day LP's or something in the middle.  I just noticed that you have an 18 month old... are you breastfeeding?  When did AF return?  Bfing suppresses progesterone.  While some women have no issues conceiving while nursing, others find it takes many months or even years to fully regulate back to fertile cycles, and some find they have to cut back on nursing or wean completely to regain fertility.  It is possible you're just still regulating.  To aid in this process you can start taking 50-100mg of vitamin B6 and make sure your diet is healthy.  Being under or over weight can also affect your hormone levels as progesterone and estrogen are stored in fat.  After you get a couple cycles charted you will have a much better idea of what is happening and how to proceed.  You could be having repeated chemical pregnancies if your LP is too short.  But if your LP does make it up to 11 days some cycles, it will just be a matter of luck of catching those more fertile cycles.  Good luck!

post #12 of 19
Thread Starter 

I stopped Breast Feeding about a year ago.  My husband and I got preg. without trying the first time, and the second time on the first month of trying.  Our second ended at 5w4d, before fetal development.  Since then we have not been able to achieve a detectable pregnancy.  One month I didn't even have a positive OPK test.  My OBGYN said that she would do a progesterone test as soon as I got pregnant again...but we have had no luck.  So last month I thought for sure that we had timed it all right...but if I understand you correctly, then I could be "shedding" my lining before the egg has a chance to attach itself, so I need to hope for a earlier OPK+.  I am also taking prenatal vitamins.  I am around 111lbs, and 5'2'.  Fairly healthy, and active.  I also have a multi nodule goiter, and was hyperthyroid, (a condition that happened 6 months after my DD was born).  Now my thyroid HCG levels are around .98, which are considered normal.  Thanks again for all the advice!

post #13 of 19

Jaimee - Thanks so much for posting this info, it's so helpful! I feel like I have no idea what is going on with me this cycle, so it's always good to refresh yourself with the charting basics and try to not feel so out of control, you know? This month I've had a lot of creamy cm, that is also as stretch as ewcm would be....and now my temps are all over the place I'm not actually if I've ovulated at all yet! I don't want to derail the thread, but if you get the chance and wouldn't mind taking a look at my chart that would be so great, sometimes all it takes is fresh eyes. 

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2010 View Post

So last month I thought for sure that we had timed it all right...but if I understand you correctly, then I could be "shedding" my lining before the egg has a chance to attach itself, so I need to hope for a earlier OPK+. 

Yes to the first part and no to the second part. winky.gif  

 

A chemical pregnancy is when the embryo does not have a chance to implant or implant well before the uterine lining starts to shed and sheds the embryo with it.  So this can happen with a normal  length LP if implantation happens on the late end (12ish DPO).  But more frequently happens with a short LP.  Since 84% of the time implantation occurs between 8 and 10 DPO, if your LP is only 9 days long the embryo doesn't have a good chance.  My average LP is 10 days, but it sometimes is 11 and rarely 12.  I have successfully conceived three times (and had 2 early losses).  So it's totally possible with a 10 day LP, but you need to have an embryo that implants on the earlier side. 

 

When you get an OPK+ doesn't really matter b/c your LP will still be the same length from that time on.  What I'm guessing is that you need to work at elongating your LP.  Sounds like you're pretty healthy.  I would add the vitamin B6 to your routine and see how that helps.  But we need more full charts to really understand what is happening.  Depending on how you'd like to play this, I would wait 2 more cycles of charting to see what's happening before making a trip to the doctor.  But you could also just demand to have your levels tested now.  You should be able to make a convincing argument that your LP is short and would like before AND after O progesterone testing.
 

 

post #15 of 19

Rebekah, your charts are definitely a bit puzzling.  Looking at December's chart I do not agree with FF's guess.  As you can see, FF isn't entirely sure either (hence the dashed lines).  I would say it is much more likely that you O'd on CD24.  It is not likely at all to have 19 high temps and test negative.  Plus your temps and CF do not definitively point to CD16.  There is a much clearer biphasic pattern from CD24 on, IMO, plus you had EW on CD24.  I see that it is normal for you to continue to have fertile CF after O.  How confident do you feel about your CF observations?  Are you taking them externally or internally?  Your temps are also on the low side and I see it is common for you to spot the day prior to AF.  Spotting in your LP is not considered normal and is often a sign of low progesterone.  I see that you had a loss in October... I'm so sorry!  How far along were you?  I also see November's cycle was annovulatory, though your body was trying very hard to O based on your repeated patches of fertile CF.  While many women experience heighten fertility after an early loss, this is not always the case and if your loss was farther along it can take your body longer to recover.  It therefore does not surprise me that the following cycle was a bit on the low side, but at least it appears your LP made it to 11 days, with that one day of spotting.  So really just 10 days.  For fertility purposes you cannot count that day of spotting in your LP.

 

This cycle, I do not think you O'd on CD10.  Not only is that very early, but your CF does not support it.  It looks to me like once again your body is repeatedly gearing up to O but has not yet succeeded.  Your temps are quite low and you're continuing to get fertile CF.  I do not see a clear biphasic pattern yet.  My advice would be to continue to DTD every other day if you can and definitely on days of EW or wet CF until you have three obviously high temps and you dry up (at least for those few days).  I would also recommend adding 50-100mg of vitamin B6 to your diet as well.  How would you rate your health, weight, diet, etc.?

post #16 of 19

Jaimee - Thanks so much for taking a look! I've been feeling a bit in the dark about it all, it's frustrating not know what's going on and feeling like you don't have 'control' over this one part of TTC you're meant to have control over, ha. It's interesting what you say about CD24 in my December cycle, because I know that if I discard the temp from Dec 23rd then FF moves my cross hairs to CD24! I just didn't have a real reason to discard that temp, it was taken at the right time, I had a good amount of sleep, etc. But I think you're right, unless you discard the temp spikes on CDs 9 & 14 it's not biphasic until later on. As for CF observations, I feel like I'm always second guessing myself. This current cycle the cream CF was really obvious after AF but it was also stretchy like ewcm. In fact, I'd marked down ewcm on CD 6 or 7 because it was that stretchy, but also creamy...and then changed it later because I wasn't sure! I take it both internally and externally and try to go from there, but I pretty much have watery but milky in colour CF right up until AF from what I've noticed so far. I've never been sure if I should mark that as watery or creamy! I just feel like it's always wet in there, haha. 

 

Yep, had an early loss in October. I'm not exactly sure how far along I was because the dr basically made me wait it out to see what would happen when my betas were low. It was pretty awful, I never bled and then eventually was allowed another blood test that showed no HCG. I think it was likely a chemical pregnancy, though. I'd bled prior to getting the positive pregnancy test, which I'd initially thought was a short period but when I felt a bit off afterwards I tested and it was positive. So I assumed it was implantation bleeding, but then after the loss I didn't bleed until 40 something days later so who knows! 

 

As for the spotting, I guess it's a bit more than spotting but just my period usually starts off pretty light and only shows on the TP mixed with ew like cm so I put it down as spotting because it seems to fit best. I guess either way that means my LP could be a little short though which might be an issue. I've been taking a B complex for about a month now, and I'm also on Vitex and metformin. Aside from that, health wise I'm ok...I have PCOS but fairly regular periods from what I can remember before charting. I'm a overweight a bit and definitely need to be more active, it's been a stressful full on year moving back to NZ and teaching full time again so I know I've let things slide a bit. But, we're vegetarian and eat really well so aside from fitness (and low iron) I feel like I'm doing ok. 

 

Sorry for the giant post! Hope all this info means something, haha. Thanks again so much for taking a look!

post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by doularebekah View Post

As for CF observations, I feel like I'm always second guessing myself. This current cycle the cream CF was really obvious after AF but it was also stretchy like ewcm. In fact, I'd marked down ewcm on CD 6 or 7 because it was that stretchy, but also creamy...and then changed it later because I wasn't sure! I take it both internally and externally and try to go from there, but I pretty much have watery but milky in colour CF right up until AF from what I've noticed so far. I've never been sure if I should mark that as watery or creamy! I just feel like it's always wet in there, haha. 

EW is usually clear and will stretch like an inch or more between you fingers.  It can be yellow tinted (a possible indication of less fertile CF), but still clear.  The lotiony texture is creamy.  I would suggest only taking external observations.  The studies done on charting have all been done with external observations.  Often checking internally can be confusing.  Always mark the most fertile CF you see that day by just checking you panties and the TP each time you use the bathroom.

Quote:

Yep, had an early loss in October. I'm not exactly sure how far along I was because the dr basically made me wait it out to see what would happen when my betas were low. It was pretty awful, I never bled and then eventually was allowed another blood test that showed no HCG. I think it was likely a chemical pregnancy, though. I'd bled prior to getting the positive pregnancy test, which I'd initially thought was a short period but when I felt a bit off afterwards I tested and it was positive. So I assumed it was implantation bleeding, but then after the loss I didn't bleed until 40 something days later so who knows! 

Hmmm... a frustrating situation, I'm sure!  Miscarriage is, unfortunately, quite common so until you've had repeated losses, care providers don't tend to think much of it.  When I started spotting with my second conception (after an early loss), my mw just told me that there wasn't anything that could be done and to relax as much as possible, waiting it out.  I remember feeling so hopeless.  Fortunately my spotting stopped that time and I went on to have a healthy pregnancy, but I completely understand your emotions!  If I had to guess it sounds like enough hCG was produced to still linger after the bleeding, giving you that HPT+.  But it is certainly possible that you started to bleed, stopped and m/c later on.  Sometimes even after hCG has stopped being produced it can take the body a while to actually complete the m/c.  So you might have been about 3 weeks along (chemical) or you might have been more, as you said.  It's no wonder then that your body needed some more time to regulate after that.  Just a side note: implantation bleeding is really quite uncommon.  What is much more common is bleeding around the time of expected AF due to hormonal fluctuations. 

Quote:

As for the spotting, I guess it's a bit more than spotting but just my period usually starts off pretty light and only shows on the TP mixed with ew like cm so I put it down as spotting because it seems to fit best. ...I have PCOS but fairly regular periods from what I can remember before charting.

Yes, that sounds like spotting to me.  And I didn't want to mention PCOS until I had more information, but that was one of my first thoughts looking at your charts.  The repeated patches of fertile CF with erratic temps sort of screams PCOS.  But the good news is that you do ovulate at some point since many women with PCOS don't ovulate very regularly at all.    It's no wonder then that you are dealing with erratic hormones as well.  I am no expert on PCOS so I don't really have any advice for you there, but I know other women on this forum are, so you could ask around to see if there are other things that you could do to help your cycles than what you're already doing.  Good luck!

post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 

Hey Jaimee, Thank you for all of your advice!  I bought the B6 and took my first one this morning.  I hoping to get your take on my resent development.   I started (spotting?) this morning.  Coincidentally CD13 (today) was the same time last month I had a POS OPK test, however that is not the case this morning.  OPK-.  I think I remember that last month I got the positive OPK after my spotting.  Last month my spotting lasted a couple of days, but the month before that it was just a light brown spotting, with no OPK+ at all.  The month before that no spotting, the month before that light brown spotting and NEVER ever spotting prior to my MC.  So, could this be a ovulation precursor?  (one can have high hopes right? My instinct says probably not though.)  I'm thinking hormones?  And does this spotting mean it will probably not happen this month either?  What does it mean for for me?  Thank you so, so, so much!!!

post #19 of 19

Hey Jaimee, thanks so much for all your advice! It's been really helpful for getting my head around charting. For now I'm just trying to let things be and see what happens with my temps this cycle. I'm assuming I haven't ovulated yet, and I'm thinking of getting an OPK for next cycle to try and help me get a better handle on it. In a way it's a bit exciting to think that we might not have missed out chance this month!

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