newborn meeting our non-vax kiddos

[phytoangel]

hey mamas!  so, something just came up that i have never thought of because both of my girls are non-vax and have a ton of friends that are non-vax.  friends of ours just had a baby and they don't have the heart to tell us that we cannot visit so we heard it from another friend that they don't want our girls around the baby.  at first i was bummed, now a bit frustrated and the emotions go on and go.  anyway, what is your take on the situation?  concerns, facts, ways of dealing with it, etc. 

thanks mamas!  what a wild world we live in.  i soooooo don't want to be in the herd.  :)

[Marnica]

That is unfortunate since these friends of yours are basing their choices about excluding you from visiting based on fear and misonformation, rather than facts. BUT it is their right to say who they want around their newborn and who they don't.

I would call this friend to arrange a time to go see them, thus she will have to take the responsibility and address her not wanting you guys to visit herself, rather than avoiding the subject. That also gicves you a window to offer to tell her the facts. Perhaps once their baby has had his/her shots, they will be a bit less nanal about who is around their baby. It's obvious they believe vaccines are effective, so maybe it's just a matter of getting to the 6 month mark and then you can visit.

[Taximom5]

Actually, I'm going to surprise a few of you here, and agree with your friends.

I think they should keep their newborn from all people, vaccinated or not, outside the immediate family for the first couple of months, and children, I think, tend to carry a lot more viruses than adults, even when they are not symptomatic.  

Our pediatric cardiologist told us that there is a period from 4-8 weeks where the mother's milk drops off in terms of immunoglobulins, but the baby's immune system doesn't begin to kick in until at least 8 weeks (and takes several years to completely develop, by the way).  (I've been hunting for a reference to that on PubMed, but can't find one--if I am passing on a myth, someone please correct me!)

There are many viruses that can be transmitted, that have nothing to do with vaccines. And if they're not breastfeeding, then the baby is at much more risk.

We found out the hard way, when my mother-in-law gave our 5-week-old Fifth Disease (even though I was exclusively breastfeeding).

[miriam]

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Edited by miriam - 5/27/12 at 2:44pm

[bygones75]

I just dealt with this with my brother.  My kids have still not seen their 6 month old cousin.

When I take the emotions out of it, it comes down to this: it's their baby.  *shrugs*  If they're open to talking about it to avoid any future misunderstandings, then kudos to them and to you.  But in my experience, I've found it's not helpful. 

Trust me when I say I understand your frustrations.  I am now practicing the art of letting go.  :)  They'll go their path, I'll go mine, and save myself some energy.

Also, as another poster mentioned, they may relax when the baby is a bit older. 

[1goodmama]

I agree with taximom5 on the fact that kids carry so many germs (espcially considering its winter), and the parents of the newborn have the right to say who comes to visit the baby.....personally i think those parents should be more concerned about other viruses that spread during the winter months that diseases that are vaccinated against but it all boils down to their choice....

[lokidoki]

I absolutely think that it is their right to decide who comes to see their baby ~ because I wish to have the same rights concerning my children. That being said ~ I am not ever one to restrict my babies from seeing other children or adults. My children have always been incredibly healthy and I had BOTH of my babies out in public within days of being born. I certainly do not go rubbing their little faces, hands or mouths on the handlebars of shopping carts ~ usually put them in my Moby wrap or carry in an infant seat...but I also am of the camp that life goes on when I have my babies and they incorporate into it.

Either way ~ their choice. Perhaps they will understand more fully when they have to watch a vaccine reaction...

[phytoangel]

thanks mamas!  i absolutely agree with everyone's posts.  we made our choices for good reasons and they are doing the same.  nonetheless, it does hurt.  my friend said that my husband and i were more than welcome to come by, but without the girls.  no thanks!  i do agree with the period of time that babies should be kept within the home and with the family for soooo many reasons.  funny thing is, that everyone of our other friends are pouring into their house to meet the lil man.  that is what hurts! to add to the frustration, my brother in law told dh that the same stands true for when they have their daughter in february.  it is going to be hard to explain to our girls why they can't meet their cousin.  i am obviously respectful of others choices, but it doesn't make it easy or less hurtful in some situations.  thanks ladies!

[Taximom5]

Would your friend consider letting your girls meet their baby if the girls wear medical masks and gloves?  I know it's ridiculous, because whatever germs your girls are carrying, so are you and your husband, and, for that matter, anyone who has had the blasted vaccines anyway (vaccines do not stop you from spreading viruses, though they can certainly limit the amount you spread at one time).

If your friend is that worried, she shouldn't let ANYONE near the baby.

But my suggestion is with the aim of compromise.  And maybe you can make it something fun for your girls (I don't know how old they are?) by purchasing a set of doctor scrubs in their size, so they feel like a doctor rather than like Typhoid Mary.

You also might tell your friend that anyone vaccinated with a live-virus vaccine (such as MMR or FluMist) can spread those viruses for up to 3 weeks.

[Jennyanydots]

I can see how this would be hurtful, and it seems unfair to exclude your little ones if they have no problem having other kids over to meet the baby.  Personally, I agree with what Taximom said about limiting the number of visitors a baby gets, period.  When my son was a newborn I felt very uncomfortable having any kids around him.  My SIL & BIL stopped by with their two school aged kids, and I wished I'd had the backbone to ask them not to bring them... I just couldn't think of a tactful way to do it.  No idea whether they vaccinate, and I don't care- people, especially kids, are just big germy things that should be kept away from newborns!  I would personally not bring my kids to meet a baby.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by phytoangel 

thanks mamas!  i absolutely agree with everyone's posts.  we made our choices for good reasons and they are doing the same.  nonetheless, it does hurt.  my friend said that my husband and i were more than welcome to come by, but without the girls.  no thanks!  i do agree with the period of time that babies should be kept within the home and with the family for soooo many reasons.  funny thing is, that everyone of our other friends are pouring into their house to meet the lil man.  that is what hurts! to add to the frustration, my brother in law told dh that the same stands true for when they have their daughter in february.  it is going to be hard to explain to our girls why they can't meet their cousin.  i am obviously respectful of others choices, but it doesn't make it easy or less hurtful in some situations.  thanks ladies!

Did they ask your vax status before welcoming you and hubby over for a visit? They are obviously gravely misinformed about vaccines and their purpose. Children are not the only germy ones (not to say you and your husband are germy but hopefully you understand what I mean...). Are they asking for the vax status of everyone before allowing them to come visit or is it just because they know you do not vax that they are not allowing your children?

[Asiago]

Try not to be hurt by it and just respect their decision. I understand your view and I understand theirs.  I observed a period of confinement also, but I think everyone should do what they feel is best. Good luck and hopefully the relationship will pick up where it left off, just keep in touch for a while in other ways. 

[Alenushka]

I did not allow people without a DTap around my newborns. I nursed but it does not really protect against whooping cough which can be deadly to infants.

My brother is the same way. His MIL was not happy but got a  booster shot like the rest of us

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I did not allow people without a DTap around my newborns. I nursed but it does not really protect against whooping cough which can be deadly to infants.

My brother is the same way. His MIL was not happy but got a  booster shot like the rest of us

I am sorry to say that sadly this did not protect your infant ~ perhaps it did in your mind but transmission of WC is not prevented by being current on vaccinations. WC can be deadly to infants just like many other illnesses...but it doesn't mean that it has to be and BF does offer protection against WC (not 100% protection but it offers some valuable protection). In fact ~ it might have increased the chance of exposure as the vaccination lessens the chance of getting the identifiable "whoop" to the cough but does not stop the cold symptoms thereby allowing someone to think that they do not actually have WC when they do...

[bygones75]

Originally Posted by phytoangel 

thanks mamas!  i absolutely agree with everyone's posts.  we made our choices for good reasons and they are doing the same.  nonetheless, it does hurt.  my friend said that my husband and i were more than welcome to come by, but without the girls.  no thanks!  i do agree with the period of time that babies should be kept within the home and with the family for soooo many reasons.  funny thing is, that everyone of our other friends are pouring into their house to meet the lil man.  that is what hurts! to add to the frustration, my brother in law told dh that the same stands true for when they have their daughter in february.  it is going to be hard to explain to our girls why they can't meet their cousin.  i am obviously respectful of others choices, but it doesn't make it easy or less hurtful in some situations.  thanks ladies!

I hear ya.  And I get how it hurts.  Hugs.

My kids are meeting their cousin for the first time tomorrow.  She's six months old.  They're finally allowed to see her but "not breathe on her."     Funny thing is, my mom has had a hacking cough for weeks, and she watches the baby 20 hours a week.  But that doesn't concern my brother or his wife at all, since she's vaxed  (or she was, 50 years ago.  They haven't really considered the waning efficacy of vaccines, obviously).  It's frustrating and hurtful, but I have to let it go.  We cannot change other people, only our reactions.  My reaction will be to spend most of tomorrow playing in the basement with my boys while the rest of them feel superior upstairs.  That's ok.  We'll have more fun. ;)

[Alenushka]

You misunderstood. My children had no childhood ilnesses thank to vaccinations. The only one one of my kids had was CP because they did not have a vaccine yet.

No vaccine is 100% .....but I still would not have unvaccinated kids or adults  around my babies. My child, my choice.

[slmommy]

Alenushka,

Lokidoki didn't misunderstand. DTaP does not make you immune to pertussis, it makes you immune to the toxin the pertussis bacteria creates.  

Everyone on this thread seems to agree with my child, my choice, no matter the choice.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Alenushka,

Lokidoki didn't misunderstand. DTaP does not make you immune to pertussis, it makes you immune to the toxin the pertussis bacteria creates.  

Everyone on this thread seems to agree with my child, my choice, no matter the choice.

 I get that everyone has a right to make decisions for their children regarding vaccinations (I wouldn't want it any other way) ~ however do not do so under false illusion that you are "protecting" you baby by requiring everyone that visits be vaccinated...because that is not necessarily (and in most cases not at all) protecting your child from illness...breastfeeding is doing FAR more protecting than vaccinating at that age!

[luckiest]

Well, I remember a bunch of family coming to visit us when DS was 3 weeks old, including his older cousins, aged 3 and 1.  I'm a non-vaxer, they were vaxed, but I still wasn't comfortable with them being around him.  He's so tiny, they'd just been on an airplane, plus they're at that age when they always seem to have a runny nose or a cough, and who knows whether it's a virus or an allergy.  We didn't ban the cousins from our apartment, but they didn't touch the baby or even get within a sneeze's reach.

I think her reason for not wanting your kiddos around is misguided, but still valid in that it's her baby and she gets the say-so.  Kind of crappy that she's avoiding telling you, but whatever.  I guess my question for her, if I were you, is whether she's *ever* going to be comfortable with your kids being around hers.  If not, then I'd try to educate her on your decisions and vaccines in general, and straighten out some of the misinformation so that she can make a truly informed decision.