Pitbull moved into apartment building - Page 3

[Mulvah]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Sources please? The only sites that say this that I can find are active pit bull advocates - obviously they are going to portray them in the best light possible. Every other site doesn't not say that.

"Dr. Brisbin, as well as the other experts, testified that pit bulls do not have locking jaws. Based on actual dog dissections and measurement of their skulls, the evidence demonstrated that pit bull jaw muscles and bone structure are the same as other similarly sized dogs. No evidence was presented to demonstrate that a pit bull's bite is any stronger than other dogs of its size and build."
 

Click here.

You can read about Dr. Brisbin's qualifications through a Google search.  I won't be doing that one for you. 

[Cyllya]

Hmm, how long is it acceptable to leave a dog home alone?
 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

But still, I cannot tell what type of dog owner you are by looking at your dog. I would not want her to approach me, no matter how sweet she is, because I don't know her and I don't know you. I cannot tell her from any other pit bull just by looking at her. I know other great pit bull owners (IRL, not you) that seem to think that I should inherently trust their dogs, and that I should just trust that a dog is good natured until the dog shows they aren't. I'm not willing to take that chance though, so I do not approach dogs (of ANY breed), and I do not want dogs approaching me or my ds either.

I also don't own dogs, because while I love dogs that I know and can trust (my aunt and uncles German Shepherd being one that I absolutely adore), I don't have the time to spend with them to train them and properly socialize them. And its impossible for me to tell which dogs have been properly socialized just by looking at them, or by looking at their owners.

Well, you shouldn't trust a strange dog any more than you should trust a strange human, certainly. But you not trusting dogs doesn't mean your neighbors shouldn't be allowed to have a dog in their home, which is what the OP is talking about....

Re: the bolded. From my experience, it's possible to tell a lot about a dog's behavior by looking at her. They tend to offer some pretty distinct visual hints about imminent behavior.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Hmm, how long is it acceptable to leave a dog home alone?
 

Well, you shouldn't trust a strange dog any more than you should trust a strange human, certainly. But you not trusting dogs doesn't mean your neighbors shouldn't be allowed to have a dog in their home, which is what the OP is talking about....

Re: the bolded. From my experience, it's possible to tell a lot about a dog's behavior by looking at her. They tend to offer some pretty distinct visual hints about imminent behavior.

I can see that there would be visual hints about imminent behavior. Imminent means that the behavior is happening immediately following that behavior. Once that visual hint starts, it very well may be too late to prevent the behavior.

[Mom31]

Exactly SSM.

I wonder what the mothers of the dead or disfigured children thought of the pit bulls in their neighborhoods. I wonder if they thought they were nice dogs.

[EarthRootsStarSoul]

There are always warning signs before a dog attack.  The problem is people don't recognize or ignore the dog's red-flag behaviors.  The red flags can be present for years before a bite happens. 

[Mom31]

In one of the cases I am most familiar with the child was in a park and a pit bull got loose and attacked the child. It all happened really fast.

The other it was family dogs and the child escaped his bedroom out a window into the yard. the dogs packed up and killed him. Both of these attacks happened in the last two years.

Very very sad.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama 
 Their jaws don't lock but they are very muscular and it may take a break stick (like a broom handle) to get them to let go.  I would NEVER adopt from a breeder and I really think there should not be any breeding for a long time.  There are way too many pits and they are being breed for looks vs temperament now a lot of the time.  A pit should not ever ever weigh 90+ pounds.  

A 90lb pit??  Holy crap, you're right, that should never ever happen. How big are they usually? From what I have seen they appear to be mostly medium sized dogs, with huge jaws.

Maedze - See the bolded. Seriously??  A dog who requires a BREAK STICK to get them to let go of someone or something that they are biting should not be considered somewhat dangerous?? A break stick. Meaning, you have to jam a stick into their mouth and pry their mouth open. As a random person walking down the street should I be carrying one just in case some irresponsible dog owner (or someone who swears that their precious rescue would never ever in a million years bite ANYONE ever) is walking a dog that attacks me or my kid? No thank you. I don't like pits, and I agree with PoppyMama that they should not be bred, although unlike her I would never own one. And I would certainly have one put down if they bit me while I was trying to feed them.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by EarthRootsStarSoul 

There are always warning signs before a dog attack.  The problem is people don't recognize or ignore the dog's red-flag behaviors.  The red flags can be present for years before a bite happens. 

I'm NOT A DOG OWNER. I should NOT be required to recognize warning signs that a dog is going to attack me! That is the OWNERS responsibility. If they can't keep their dogs under control maybe they should face criminal prosecution for putting NON DOG OWNERS at risk. I don't own a dog, nor do I want to own a dog, and I should not be responsible for making sure someone elses dog doesn't harm me. I also don't approach dogs, and am not overly fond of people allowing their dogs to approach me without my permission (just as I would get permission to approach a dog). Sure, sometimes I pass dogs on the sidewalk, and most of the time owners are conscious of their animal and keep them on a short leash so that they don't approach, but all owners should do that. I especially hate it when owners allow their gigantic dogs to approach my son when we are walking on the sidewalk - he doesn't like dog slobber, and I don't want some huge dog knocking him down.

[Mom31]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama 
  I would give any pit the same cautiousness I have for any animal that could kill me.  Lots of dogs have the ability to kill me and I am cautious of all of them.

Like a cougar???

[EarthRootsStarSoul]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I'm NOT A DOG OWNER. I should NOT be required to recognize warning signs that a dog is going to attack me! That is the OWNERS responsibility. If they can't keep their dogs under control maybe they should face criminal prosecution for putting NON DOG OWNERS at risk. I don't own a dog, nor do I want to own a dog, and I should not be responsible for making sure someone elses dog doesn't harm me. I also don't approach dogs, and am not overly fond of people allowing their dogs to approach me without my permission (just as I would get permission to approach a dog). Sure, sometimes I pass dogs on the sidewalk, and most of the time owners are conscious of their animal and keep them on a short leash so that they don't approach, but all owners should do that. I especially hate it when owners allow their gigantic dogs to approach my son when we are walking on the sidewalk - he doesn't like dog slobber, and I don't want some huge dog knocking him down.

I agree.  People should have aggressive dogs put to sleep.  I've done it. 

I keep my dog on a leash for walks.  Most places have leash laws.  One time she pulled the leash out of my hand and ran half a block.  She froze when she realized I was so far behind and waited for me to catch up.  Haha.  The one place I let her off to run and play is remote.  She likes to swim in the river. 

[PoppyMama]

Dogs can become very changed in a pack.  I wouldn't trust a pack of dogs and wouldn't have one mingling with my kids.  My two don't sleep together, are separated when were out of the house and aren't aloud outside alone with the kids together.  This has nothing to do with their individual behavior and is good practice for all dogs.  Break sticks are used with pits because pits are breed to be sticktuitive and aren't used with other breeds because you are likely to get bit using it with other breeds not because it's easy to get other powerful dogs to stop attacking.  I want a moratorium on breeding pits because of the overpopulation and the number being killed as well as the irresponsible way theyre being. Rees not because they aren't wonderful dogs.  I am so spoiled by how tolerant they are with kids that I doubt I will ever have another breed.  They have a very high pain tolerance and are a playmate a living room floor buddy.  

SSM- i really can't believe you would put a dog down because they had no practice taking treats and didn't know how to get it without biting down.  Warning signs of human aggression and I will take my beloved pets out and Lenny them but let's not get hysterical here.  

I feel for people in areas with loose dogs.  I don't live in one and I'm super paranoid about mine getting out.  If there were loose dogs around I would be calling rescues then animal control and carrying a gun.

[Mom31]

The owners of the dogs in  the one at the park is in a lot of trouble.  This dog that attacked was a pet of a adult woman from what I understand.

[DoubleDouble]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

From my experience, it's possible to tell a lot about a dog's behavior by looking at her. They tend to offer some pretty distinct visual hints about imminent behavior.

We had a certified service dog (that had special training and exams.) I grew up with working dogs.

And I still have difficulties in telling a dog's intentions sometimes. It should not be my job. And, even if I see a hint about imminent aggressive behavior, and I forgot my tire iron in the other purse at home, what do I do?

Besides, not everyone can even read open hints about people's behavior (Asperger's comes to mind). And now we have to be dog whisperers, too?

PS. "Locking jaws" - if a jaw requires a bar to pry it open, I'd say "locking" is the right word. Not scientifically correct, but sound sense correct. It's not the jaw that locks, it's the dog that locks it and does not wish to open it. But it is locked all the same, end of story. If it did not "lock", it could be open with a push of a pinkie finger or a command, right?

Edited by DoubleDouble - 1/25/12 at 9:45am

[PoppyMama]

Well then I guess a great number of dogs have locking jaws including many small dogs.  The break stick was designed to separate two fighting dogs without pulling and increasing injury.  It's not used with other breeds because it's riskier for the person doing it.

Cougars, uhm yeah, irrationally afraid of them considering how unlikely I am to be attacked by one.  Not sure what that has to do with this though.

[Maedze]

I think you have a very strong case of 'delusional fear outweighing capability for rational thought' here.  

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

A 90lb pit??  Holy crap, you're right, that should never ever happen. How big are they usually? From what I have seen they appear to be mostly medium sized dogs, with huge jaws.

Maedze - See the bolded. Seriously??  A dog who requires a BREAK STICK to get them to let go of someone or something that they are biting should not be considered somewhat dangerous?? A break stick. Meaning, you have to jam a stick into their mouth and pry their mouth open. As a random person walking down the street should I be carrying one just in case some irresponsible dog owner (or someone who swears that their precious rescue would never ever in a million years bite ANYONE ever) is walking a dog that attacks me or my kid? No thank you. I don't like pits, and I agree with PoppyMama that they should not be bred, although unlike her I would never own one. And I would certainly have one put down if they bit me while I was trying to feed them.

[Mom31]

In my neighborhood you are way more likely to be attacked by a pit bull. They are bred around here- with breeds such as Gotti.

[mamayogibear]

So my questions are: How uncomfortable would you feel with a pitbull in your building?

I am only comfortable when there is a pitbull in my home:) I admit I'm biased as I've owned a couple of wonderful pitbulls over the years.

How would you approach the neighbors about it?

I would ask them about their dog and if they are getting it any obedience training or if their dog has undergone a temperment test or a good citizen class. and maybe suggest hiring a daily dog walker for when they are at work. Oh and *I* would thank them for saving the poor dog in the first place.

Or would you go directly to the landlords?

Nope I'm not that kind of gal.

[mamayogibear]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Hmm, how long is it acceptable to leave a dog home alone?

An adult dog should be able to be left alone for up to ten hours at a time. Sorry but dog owners, especially single mom dog owners, need to have full time jobs too. My  dog would spend her day sleeping on the couch and getting up to bark at the mailman. She had a toybox full of ropes and chews that I would pour on the floor each morning and then put away when my daughter and I came home for the day. When my dog was younger and I had a roomate they would take her out for a walk mid day. 

[Ola_]

Wow, this sure has gotten passionate!  I'll stay out of the (various) debates but will share my thoughts on the OP's situation:

First, I'm a dog owner and do not have a problem with pitbulls.  I do however have a problem with dogs who are aggressive and/or owners who don't take safety precautions.  That said, I would speak to the neighbours and let them know the issues you are having (mainly the whining it sounds like).  From your post they sound like they are trying to be considerate of you, since you said the dog doesn't bark and they don't take him/her into the shared yard (which I would appreciate in your position since it means no dog pee/poop in your child's play area and the dog is getting better exercise on walks to help him be calmer, also a sign of a good owner).  I would guess since it's a new-to-them dog and you live in an apartment that they are probably crating the dog while they are away or confining him in some way to keep him safe from household hazards and prevent any property damage.  Again, another sign of a responsible owner!  Let them know about the whining (they may honestly not be aware of it or may be working on it) and ask them if they can move the dog to a different room in the meantime so that it doesn't disturb your child's sleep.  Also, I'd consider a white noise machine (we use a small fan for DD) to block the noise if the walls are so thin that you can hear it no matter where the dog is.

At this point it doesn't sound to me like you have any cause for concern.  The dog is supervised, exercised, and seems well cared for.  As for how long you can leave a dog home alone for, when DH and I were working out of the home our dogs were alone for 8-10 hrs.  This is not an issue for a healthy dog (not a puppy though usually) that is accustomed to it.  With sufficient exercise and potty breaks before/after they really mostly snooze the day away.  That's what they do while we are home (me with DD and DH is WAH), their potty breaks and meals are at the same time as they were then just out of habit.

Hopefully with a friendly chat with the neighbour you can make this less of an issue for you and everyone can be happy.

[mamayogibear]

Any dog can be taught to have a soft mouth. A retrieving grip is different than an attack grip. My first pit bull that I had as a teen figured out how  to carry water balloons without popping them. She loved carrying and catching things but was horribly afraid of water so she managed to figure out how to play with waterballoons without getting wet. Her second passion was dangling from a tire haning in a tree so I'm pretty sure her jaws were still strong.