Random question about decline of diseases - Page 2

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I think though that this is the case with many VPDs...they just do not get diagnosed or get mis-diagnosed as something else because doc figures "vaxed for that, couldn't possibly" and diagnoses as something else...and the vaccine has changed the actual symptoms of the virus/disease and so it no longer looks like the traditional symptoms.

I have been thinking about this in regards to polio.

Do doctors ever test for polio anymore, in the US?  When nonparalytic polio presents as a flu-like illness, isn't it possible that polio is still around, and just not as damaging as it once was, for whatever reason (no more smallpox shots or OPV; nutrition; hygiene; virus mutation; etc.), or that it is still around at a subclinical level?  I may be way off on this and maybe doctors do still test for it or perhaps there is some other way of knowing, but I do wonder if it is misdiagnosed as something else, as many cases that were diagnosed as polio in the 50s were actually another illness.

[Taximom5]

"may require the exclusion of the pupil from that school, child care center, day nursery, nursery school, family day care home, or development center until the completion of the incubation period and the period of communicability of the disease."

 

Perhaps they are thinking of the kids who don't hold a titer?

 

The use of the word "may" also gives them a lot of leeway. :)

[member234098]

Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 2:37pm

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by miriam 

About ten years ago in Minnesota the media reported an Amish child had been hospitalized and then a stool sample was taken as a routine. The little girl had an immunodeficiency that vaccination would never have corrected, and may have contradictated vaccination. I doubt this procedure would have been done for a fully vaccinated child, but this child was Amish and suspected of all kinds of things.  Sure enough her stool sample was + for polio.  The girl had no other sign of polio.  The media ran with this and said that there was a polio outbreak in MN among the Amish. 

Much ado about nothing ... notice how widespread the information is in these articles.

http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=200

http://www.virology.ws/2009/03/09/polio-among-the-amish/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/national/08polio.html?pagewanted=all

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/10/28_postt_polioupdate/

That's fascinating!  Eradicated but there was an "outbreak"?  They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Could what is now called Guillain-Barre actually be paralytic polio?  Again, I don't know much about how they are diagnosed, but it is curious that GB can occur after the flu vaccine, as polio often would occur post-vaccination.

[member234098]

Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 2:36pm

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Another name for Guillain-Barre Syndrome is French Polio.  Google French Polio and that is what you get. A neighbor I grew up with had this diagnosis, one of many, before she was finally diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.  She got sick after getting the swine flu vaccine. That was 36 years ago. She died in 1993 at the age of 38.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/French+Polio

http://www.answers.com/topic/guillain-barr-syndrome

So my next question (and OP, I apologize for the thread hijack): Is there a standard, reliable test for "polio"?  Or is it diagnosable with a cluster of symptoms only?  If so, how could it be declared eradicated?

My mother's best friend died of ALS over the summer.  She was initially diagnosed with MS.  I've always wondered if there was another cause or undiagnosed illness.  (I hadn't seen her in years and only heard about her decline from my mother, so my curiosity is pure speculation and nothing else.)

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by shiningpearl 

I honestly believe that there isn't a huge NEW whooping cough epidemic.  I think because the fact that the non-vaccinated movement has gained a voice and people are aware and Doctors are starting to diagnose WP even in vaccinated individuals thus showing how ineffective the vaccine is and creating the epidemic.  But of course non-vaccinated individuals are the problem: Typhoid Mary's ya know.

I think this is true.

I have known several people who said they or their children had whooping cough as a child/teen.  In all cases, the doctors did not call it whooping cough - but the symptoms certainly looked like whooping cough.  None had any test done.  I think doctors (in the past) were reluctant to diagnose vaccine diseases - perhaps (speculative) because they thought the vaccines prevented the disease, hence the disease couldn't be pertussis.  

I now think the opposite is happening.  Doctors, the medical community and the media  are quick to highlight vaccine available diseases as it puts fear into people - which in turn  convinces  people to vaccinate.  

[purslaine]

I do think some diseases have declined through vaccines - it is hard to know by how much as factors such as sanitation, nutrition and perhaps life-spand of diseases play into it.  I know the severe complication rate from diseases have decreased in wealthy countries due to better medical care, nutrition, etc.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I think this is true.

I have known several people who said they or their children had whooping cough as a child/teen.  In all cases, the doctors did not call it whooping cough - but the symptoms certainly looked like whooping cough.  None had any test done.  I think doctors (in the past) were reluctant to diagnose vaccine diseases - perhaps (speculative) because they thought the vaccines prevented the disease, hence the disease couldn't be pertussis.  

I now think the opposite is happening.  Doctors, the medical community and the media  are quick to highlight vaccine available diseases as it puts fear into people - which in turn  convinces  people to vaccinate.  

Yep.  My kids all had it (in spite of being fully vaxed), but the doctor didn't call it "whooping cough," he called it "pertussis."  And he wasn't the least bit worried about it, so neither was I.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

So my next question (and OP, I apologize for the thread hijack): Is there a standard, reliable test for "polio"?  Or is it diagnosable with a cluster of symptoms only?  If so, how could it be declared eradicated?

My mother's best friend died of ALS over the summer.  She was initially diagnosed with MS.  I've always wondered if there was another cause or undiagnosed illness.  (I hadn't seen her in years and only heard about her decline from my mother, so my curiosity is pure speculation and nothing else.)

My understanding is that there IS a blood test for polio, but that as soon as the poliovaccine came into use, the assumption was that a vaccinated individual could not possibly get polio, so the test is never used on anyone who has been vaccinated, and it's assumed that that patient would have another diagnosis (like "acute flaccid paralysis," which was actually the previous definition of polio--go figure).

I write this, though, without having looked it up first, as I'm in a bit of a rush.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

[mrs.t]

It's ok about the thread hijack, I'm actually curious about the whole idea of doctors not diagnosing (or even testing for) diseases that we have been vaxxed for. Such an interesting topic!

[vforba]

It's interesting but my dad still says to this day that the swine flu shot from back in the 70's or 60's or whenever it was messed up his shoulder.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by vforba 

It's interesting but my dad still says to this day that the swine flu shot from back in the 70's or 60's or whenever it was messed up his shoulder.

Very likely ~ that vaccine was riddled with all kinds of issues and caused a lot of health problems (including death). So tragic...and one of the MANY reasons I am so glad I do not vax myself or my children (or my dogs, for that matter). Humans are not known for their critical thinking abilities when it comes to seeing through 20-50 years ahead...we think in the moment ~ and if it solves a problem in the moment then who the heck cares what it does to us 50 years down the road!

[member234098]

Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 2:35pm

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by miriam 

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/cbs+60+minutes%2C+swine+flu+vaccine/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webcam

For the record, measles is now being declared eradicated also in the US and polio is being declared eradicated in India, unless, of course you got polio from the OPV.

Sounds like just the definitions are what are being eradicated, not the illnesses themselves.  They are just being renamed.

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Sounds like just the definitions are what are being eradicated, not the illnesses themselves.  They are just being renamed.

Right!