How to bring my "Dr. Spock" mom into the AP world?

[Shell]

Oh my gosh! I just had the weirdest realization about my own upbringing!!!

I am pregnant with my first, but also step-mother to two boys (ages 8 and 12, who don't live with us f/t) who were AP-raised. Dh and I are totally bought into the AP approach, but I have been trying to figure out how to bring my mom into our philosophy. She has always told me that Dr. Spock revolutionized child rearing and that she prescribes to his ideas 100%.

I recently bought Dr. Sear's book on Attachment Parenting, which I though I would send to my mom and let her read. That way, she will get it all in one complete picture, rather than me trying to have to explain it to her piecemeal, and in a not as eloquent way.

Anyway, as I have been reading about AP and thinking about my future life with babe, I had a flashback to my own childhood years. My parents never brought us into their bed, and certainly followed the "cry it out" approach. What I realized as I was thinking about this today is that when I was a kid I threw a lot of tantrums, and then would run to my bedroom and "cry." Well, my parents rarely came after me, and in fact, probably thought it was amusing, knowing full well that I was putting on an "act."

Well, this is really blowing my mind, as I realize that my tantrums were just an extension of their philosophy. I now realize that I had no way of truly expressing my emotions to my parents, because they never took it at face value. I was always trying to manipulate the situation to try and get their attention.

My two step-boys NEVER EVER throw tantrums. They are so incredibly well behaved! Every now and then the 8 year old has a "meltdown" but they are always real, and never contrived.

So now I have the task of bringing my somewhat unemotional mom into my world of thinking. I live in Maryland and they live in Florida. I plan on staying with them for a month in Florida during my maternity leave, and I am sure my mom will spend a couple of weeks with me right after the birth (November).

My mom and I are actually pretty close, although as different as could be. We have gone through some major clashes throughout the years, but are finally in a pretty good place together. She is 67 and my dad is 77 -- and this is their first grandchild. They have been waiting a long, long time to be grandparents, and I fully want to engage them in all aspects of things to the most practical extent possible.

Anyway... I was wondering if anyone else had any experiences with parents who had radically different child rearing beliefs, and how you handled it. I'm a little afraid to send them the AP book, because it could open a can of worms, but it is the only thing I can think of. The book will undoubtedly make them think. (Yet at the same time, I don't want to inadvertently insult their own parenting skills).

I'd love to hear other folk's experiences... or any good ideas as to how to bring my folks along.

[Shell]

I think maybe this thread should be under 'parenting issues,' but I do not know how to move it!

[mollyeilis]

Well didn't Dr. Spock change his own tune later on? Perhaps you could check out a newer edition of his work, review it, and if I'm right, just send her that! She might have been done with child-rearing by the time he figured it all out, and just never knew he'd changed his mind.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I confess that I haven't read Dr. Spock. But, wasn't his central tenet that parents should trust their own instincts rather than outside instructions? That seems like the perfect way to introduce the subject!

[Shell]

I don't know, ladies. The following quote comes directly from Dr. Spock's website:

Some small children go through a period of waking up frightened at night. They may repeatedly come into the parents' room, perhaps crying persistently, and the parents may take them into their bed with them so that they can all get some sleep. This seems like the most practical thing to do at the time, but it can turn out to be a mistake.

Even if the child's anxiety lessens during the following weeks, he is apt to cling to the security of his parents' bed, and there is the devil to pay getting him out again.

A good rule is to take him promptly and matter-of-factly back to his own bed. Of course, there are exceptions, such as illness or true fear, when it would seem cruel to cast the child out into his lonely room. But even then it is best to take him to his own room rather than give him confusing messages.

This is what I am probably up against with my mom!

[2+twins]

I feel your pain. My parents couldn't be more different from me! We're a pretty AP family - we co-sleep, absolutely don't CIO, never ever spank, ebf, try our very hardest not to yell, truly listen to our children and try to recognize their needs, basically view them as real people who should be loved and valued, and oh yeah, we're vegetarians. My parents, on the other hand, value CIO, never ever co-slept with us (not even once - their door was always shut & we'd have to knock and wait for permission to enter), believed in yelling & corporal punishment, never made me feel like my opinion mattered at all (after all, I was just a kid), constantly tell me how I'm being manipulated by my kids (even by the baby), oh, and offer them a dish and call it "vegetarian" and they won't touch it (doesn't matter if they would have eaten it otherwise - us veggies are just too weird). My dad once told me (in regards to using baby monitors) that what they did was put me in my crib with my door shut. They shut their door too and he said that if I really needed them they'd hear me (screaming, I have to assume). Sucks, doesn't it? My point is that they are NOT the kind of parents I want to be and I actually have lots of very bad feelings towards them now that I have my own kids that didn't really surface before. The only advice I could give you would be that if you could find a way to discuss your feelings with your mom in a way that isn't going to sound like an attack (in her opinion), do it as early as possible. I literally have nightmares now at least once or twice a month about my parents doing something to drive me crazy and I always end up yelling at them and telling them that they can't see my kids anymore. My mom is just soooo super sensitive (as am I) that I can't bring myself to tell her how I feel. I guess I feel like they're so past change that all I'd accomplish is hurting her feelings. I really hope you find the answer and if you do, please pass it along to me! Good luck!

[eminer]

I've had realizations like that about my childhood and sleeping by myself. I think it explains why I'm afraid of the dark. My mom thinks it's because she went to me too often when I was crying at night. :-( The manipulation thing was also a common theme. And my mom is a very sensitive, nurturing person.

In some cases, the best way to discuss these things without seeming threatening is to wait until it comes up. Then others can see how wonderfully well-adjusted your baby is :-) and you get to make use of the particularities of your baby to explain how you arrived/are arriving at your habits. It's like, "This is what's working for us..." If challenged, you can always provide the books and theories. If your mom respected Dr. Spock deeply, maybe she will be open to Dr. Sears, in the spirit that "doctors are saying different things now".

Another way to broach the Dr. Sears book, assuming it's true, would be to say, "I really enjoyed this and am planning on using it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it." You'll probably hear a lot of reservations, but your way of thinking will be out there, in a way that gives it a tone of legitimacy and respectfulness. Acting on the expectation of friendly dialogue, and in openness to your mom's wisdom (where possible), is a good way to start up...well, friendly dialogue.

With my mom, we had a lot in common to begin with (I was #8 and her last, so she was definitely attached), but on some things, she continued to disagree politely. For instance, it clearly bugged her (right after the birth, and thereafter) that I never put dd down, because she felt like dd needed room to stretch out and time alone. That certain things, like nursing in bed and very frequently, were my midwife's advice, probably helped make mom comfortable with them immediately after the birth. On a lot of the differences, though, she came to understand my perspective as she saw dd and me in action. She now thinks co-sleeping is a great arrangement and loves how dd can sleep wherever and whenever. She's commented positively on my ability to nurse naturally and discreetly in public, which surprised her. Etc.

Good luck! :-D

Erin

[mollyeilis]

I'm back.

I did a little research since my answer (nothing involving actually looking at the original books and the 1998 revised edition, though), and while he might not think co-sleeping was a good thing, he DID change.

When he wrote his first book, he was looked on as a complete, permissive weirdo. In the 60s, he was blamed for hippies! Child-rearing experts thought he had caused it with his permissive ways...wow, right?

I googled him and one page I found interesting (didn't copy it down, sorry). It was just after he died, which was right before the revised edition came out in May of 98. So there was a little blurb by him about the upcoming new book, and some interesting tidbits (like the hippie stuff above) from his co-author. You might want to find that page, if you're interested.

I also looked (now this is where I got really scientific LOL) on the book reviews of Amazon.com, and one person said, basically, that if you REALLY read his book, especially the new book, you'll see that what he continues to say is that parents should listen to themselves. They shouldn't just do what some "expert" tells them to do, they should pay attention to their child and his or her needs and wants, and do what is best for them.

So...I wouldn't solely base my opinion on stuff on "his" website that's 6 years after the man himself died...I think just focusing on the fact (if your mom even brings it up!) that he was able to grow and change with the times, and that he was seen as radical when he first came out (and got more so later) and didn't stick with an outdated model will serve your "cause" well.

[hypatia]

I really liked Dr. Spock. He has a very soothing, reassuring style. He really empathiaes with children. He was also a vegetarian and promoted a vegetarian diet for children.

So, if I were you, I would read Dr. Spock. Then I would tell your mom you read it, and pick things you like about the book to discuss with her. Ignore the bad stuff. There is a lot of good stuff in there, so it shouldn't be that hard. It will probably really warm your mother up to know that you read her old favorite. Then, once you've found some common ground with her discussing Dr. Spock, you can talk about how Dr. Spock reminds you of Dr. Sears, blah, blah, blah, and gradually work in ideas that go beyond your mother's comfort range.

[Shell]

I promised my mom that I would read the Dr. Spock book if she would read a Dr. Sears book. We both agreed. We aren't adversarial about it. I'm going to get a Spock book from the library.

Even if Dr. Spock did change in later years, I need to get myself in the mindset of his writings from 35 years ago -- because that is her frame of reference. While Dr. Spock might have changed, she has not! And she isn't the type who will start doing a ton of research on it either. They are VERY set in their ways.

I'll be sending her the book next week -- we'll see what happens! I'll keep everyone posted, but it may be a few weeks until she reads it.

[MisfitMama]

Shell,

I think that you have a great idea and I hope you will remember to tell us how it goes. I wish I had thought of it when I was pregnant! My sister and I did a book-swap like that, and it was great. Then, when my baby was 10 months old, my aunt gave me _Children, The Challenge_, which was the book that she and my mother raised us by. (Supposedly.) I started (respectfully) telling my mother which things in the book I did not agree with, and she was appalled - she didn't even remember them being in the book! (There's some amazingly brilliant stuff in there, and some totally psycho stuff in there, too!). I think it helped me understand my own childhood (like you said) and it made it easier to discuss our opposite beliefs, since we were actually discussing a book.

Your mom might never agree with you, but I think it will be great that she will at least know *why* you are doing things. Hopefully this will bring you closer.

MisfitMama

[kofduke]

Get the book "Raising America" by Ann Hulbert. Its' a review of parenting advice-givers since the late part of the last century. It's facinating to see how much the advice has changed, and how much it's stayed the same!

[Shell]

Thanks for the reference to the "Raising America" book -- I am going to try and find it at our library too. Sounds like a very interesting book, and one that really is appropriate to my situation. Thanks!

[Shell]

Well, Mom read Dr. Sear's AP book. An interesting dialogue followed.

Her main critique was that "every page" of the book said to "trust your instincts" but that every other page of the book told you exactly what your instincts should be.

I thought that was a valid critique. Even though the book says over and over that these are just guidelines and not rules, and that every couple needs to do what feels right, it does sort of suggest that if you don't want to breastfeed, co-sleep, baby wear, etc., then you don't have nurturing instincts and you are a controlling type of parent. (I know it doesn't say that outright, but it is hard to read that book and not feel that way).

My dad then jumped on the phone, to tell me a little "story." I love my dad. He said, "Once upon a time there was a new mother whose new baby son swallowed a nickel. The mother panicked, and called the doctor, the nurse, the hospital, the neighbors, the relatives, the school -- to figure out what to do. A couple years later a second son was born. The second son also swallowed a nickel. The mother deducted it out of his allowance."

The point of the story, my mother explained, is that you can read all the books in the world that you want, and have all the intentions to do something one way or another, but until the kid is born -- you won't really know what your "instincts" will be. You can only learn to parent experientially, and that it is only natural to "over plan" for the first baby.

And of course, I totally agree. In other words, they are slightly amused that I am reading all these books and developing all these parenting philosophies. But that is okay. Whether they know it or not, they now have "references" for some of the "strange" things that I very likely will be doing -- extended breastfeeding, cosleeping, etc. I think they think that when the time comes, I won't be doing any of the things mentioned in the book. When I mentioned to her that we planned on co-sleeping, she expressed that she thought it was dangerous (could roll over on the baby) and that it could ruin my marriage (no sex), and that we will never be able to get the baby out of the bed (of course, we won't be trying to).

I'm glad they read the book -- and that we had an agreeable discussion about it, and not any prolonged arguments. I know them well enough to know that they will "let" us do what we want, but that they think we will be sorry for it down the road. In other words, my mom said that we might raise the first kid this way, but we will never, never raise the second this way.

As a reminder as to why this stuff is important anyway... DH and I are planning on spending a month at my parent's house in Florida (dh and I live in Maryland) when the baby is about six weeks. I didn't want to have a month of "put the baby down, you are spoiling him/her" and "it isn't right to have the baby sleep with you. You'll never get the baby out of your bed."

Meanwhile, the pregnancy is progressing nicely (week 17) and we are growing more and more excited! My folks are coming to visit us in two weeks; they are actually going with us for our sonogram, at which we will find out the sex of the baby. My parents have an "agenda" of things they want to do with us that weekend. This is their first time seeing us since we got pregnant. I am SURE I will have updates for you all after this weekend, and that the discussions with them on attachment parenting will continue...

[Piglet68]

I'll move it. It is a Parenting Issues subject...

[tracymom]

Book recommendation: "Spock on Spock: A Memoir of Growing Up With the Century," Dr. Spock's autobiography written with his wife Mary Morgan.

It is very interesting reading. I've always meant to get the new "Baby and Child Care" edition but never did. My mom said she liked Dr. Spock but not everything and just took what she wanted (so even though she was a ff and did let me CIO at least once that I know of, she was pretty AP in THAT sense!)

[Elana]

Hi!

I found this thread interesting! My MIL sounds a bit like your mother. They couldn't really understand why I wanted to give birth at a certain hospital, insisted on not giving a bottle/pacifier, used a sling, etc.

The one thing that I stuck to was: this is what's good for me. I think that if my MIL felt that I was judging the way she parented, she would have been pretty defensive and trying to convince me that I was wrong. I took the "this is what I learned and find easiest"... I felt that that helped her open up and accept my way.

It's pretty clear that generations change and Dr. Spock was the "IN thing" to do. Now Dr. Sears is the "IN thing" to do. It's a bit shallow, but it also works.

The only major issue that kept on coming up for a while was what happened when I wasn't around. I had to make the things important to me very clear. and if I felt that they wouldn't stick to my guidelines, I wouldn't be able to leave my girls there very often. Now, my older dd is 4+, and my MIL is a big part of her life, so things did work out. I even hear her, from time to time, boasting to her friends that her granddaughter still nursed at the age of 2.6, and that her DIL had 2 natural births, etc... :LOL

(I just reread my post and realized that I didn't mention DH even once! Wow, I have to think about that one - I know he was in on everything too )

[kerc]

Her main critique was that "every page" of the book said to "trust your instincts" but that every other page of the book told you exactly what your instincts should be.

your mom has just put into words what I have been struggling to come up with for lo these 18 months! My dd is not like the sears kids. She doesn't react the same ways. SOme of the things in their books I notice developed after they had several kids -- in other words older siblings tp hang around and help out. anyhow, i found the sears books to be very, umm, well for lack of a real word: I felt like I wasn't a good mom because I was trusting my instincts and my instincts weren't always what was going on in the book.

But cool that you're initiating this conversation with your parents. I think it is neat that they will be that involved.

Were you formula fed? I was and dh was and i think MIL changed her tune on the baby in the bed issue when she began to realize that most breastfeeding moms end up with baby in bed for some span of time. And i think it helps that we have explictly said for us parenting is about making choices that work for everyone in the present. Baby is likely going to change day by day and as such right now our parenting "tricks" change -- so no baby won't be in bed with us forever.

[Arduinna]

wow, great OP. My dd didn't do the tantrum thing either.

Anyway, my parents were progressive for their time. 1960's and I was BF'd and CD'd. But they didn't do GD which was where I had the battles. I did a combo of " I'm the mom and this is how I'm parenting so deal with it" combined with explinations about how dd is behaving in an age appropriate way regardless if it's like you think she should act.

As far as "overplanning" your parenting before the child arrives. I got that same rhetoric when I was pg with dd from pretty much everyone. Imagine their surprise when I didn't end up learning that "spanking was for the better anyway" and that I'd raise a spoiled child ect. Yes, we each have to find what works best for our kid. But, I've never heard that statement about "overplanning" from someone that didn't think I'd eventually figure out that THEY were right about how to parent afterall.

[captain optimism]

My mom said that she got all her breastfeeding information from Dr. Spock, ca. 1965. This is interesting to me--I was at my MIL's and found an early version of his childrearing manual, and he has just stupid bf'ing advice. But my MIL bf'ed too and just ignored what Spock wrote about formula in the earlier book.

Spock isn't the only person who advocated teaching independence, and independence is the big value that grandparents seem to harp on about keeping the child close at night. What I decided to do about this was to emphasize that this way is supposed to create independence in the long term.

Your parents sound great to me, Shell. My dad does that thing of using a humorous anecdote as though it were an instructive text from the holy writ! I figure, they are going to find fault with our parenting, no matter how closely we follow their philosophies. AFter all, these are their grandchildren---and, this is a big expression of our differentiation from them.