Ever feel like you missed the boat...? - Page 3

[journeymom]

To answer your general question, did I ever wonder if I missed the boat, specifically should I have scheduled my baby's sleep?  With my dd, definitely yes, I wondered.  I never once was I able to put her in the crib while she was awake, like the books describe, and just walk away. Either I nursed her to sleep, or she fell asleep on dh's or my lap late at night when we were exhausted, or dh walked her to sleep. From the time she was 2 y.o. she could not (would not) go to sleep without dh or me sitting on her bed, reading to her, singing or just waiting in the dark, while she chattered endlessly.  It was maddening.  It wasn't till she was...4 y.o.? that we could put her to bed and walk away.  Of course she'd get up a dozen times before she went to sleep. 

Edited to say, really this means that my evenings were almost entirely focused on my oldest for 4 or 5 years straight.  But really, I was doing the best I could. 

[Youngfrankenstein]

I was the same way, journeymom.  I guess I didn't see why I had to "give" 100% in every situation.  I wasn't leaving my baby to cry so I could go out, I was going to the bathroom. 

I've said it before but I'll say it again, AP is putting the kids' needs at the top of the list to consider first and then seeing how that fits in with everyone else involved. 

[Storm Bride]

hmm....I don't see you ladies as selfish. I just don't know how you do it. If I have a choice between sitting on the pot nursing a baby, or trying to take a poop while listening to said baby scream, sitting on the pot holding the baby is the easy choice, by far. I can deal with older kids whining or making a fuss, and we have a strict "leave mama alone until she's had breakfast" rule (I used to get their breakfast first, then basically tell them to go away and leave me alone - but they get up before me, now, and dd1 gets breakfast for herself and for her two young siblings). But, if my infant/toddler is screaming bloody blue murder, then my relaxation is completely off the table, anyway...and listening to it upsets my digestive system, so it's better for me to take care of them, and then eat my yogurt (or whatever). It's not a martyr thing at all.

DD2 doesn't come in the bathroom with me. I'm pretty burned out on the not being able to poop in privacy thing. But, she also doesn't freak out about it the way at least one of her siblings did (personally, I think that's at least partly because she has her siblings to keep her company). If she did, I'd let her come in, simply because that's the easier choice for me.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

hmm....I don't see you ladies as selfish. I just don't know how you do it. If I have a choice between sitting on the pot nursing a baby, or trying to take a poop while listening to said baby scream, sitting on the pot holding the baby is the easy choice, by far.

I guess the point is that we should do what we want to.  I think either way can be right.  We shouldn't have people guilting or shaming us for not doing what they'd do.  I remember awhile back there was a mother who got severe constipation because she couldn't "go" til her husband got home from work each day and she didn't want the baby to cry when she went to the bathroom.  She didn't feel she could do both at the same time.

She defended herself a lot so she felt strongly about it.  I just don't agree and that's ok.

[Dr.Worm]

Originally Posted by jnet24 

I reread your posts Lupena and I wanted to tell you that you are a good mom.  We get so caught up into doing everything the right way that we forget that the right way is always changing.  Like a PP said each child is different, and you know each situation is different and the day may be different too.  You are not giving yourself enough credit.  You are not a failure as a mom bc your child went to bed late.  Imagine how the world would be like if  that was the worst thing any mom ever did. You are allowing your child to explore their world be creative and energetic.  Raising free thinkers and leaders. Those are all qualities we want our children to have. You love you children, you are looking for support, and really everyone's parenting falls short of perfection. But at least you are striving to do the best for your child.  Give yourself more credit.

I just wanted to say I agree with this.

[Lupena]

Edited by Lupena - 2/3/12 at 1:23am

[Lupena]

double post

Edited by Lupena - 2/3/12 at 7:48am

[Lupena]

Edited by Lupena - 2/3/12 at 7:47am

[Lupena]

Thanks Mom 31 for help re. the double post!

Edited by Lupena - 2/3/12 at 7:49am

[Mom31]

:) go in and edit the posts just delete the post and type double post.

[jnet24]

Originally Posted by Lupena 

I was being ridiculous too.  I think it stemmed for being at Mothering for so long.  i felt like I had to do all the things  the "right way" or I wouldn't be bonded enough to my little ones.  Then I was over tired, stressed, and at my wits end.  I still fall back into it.  I still lose my patience.  I yell too much.  But I am trying to set rules and boundaries that aren't OTT or not realistic for a 5 and 3 yr old.  This is such an interesting topic.

[Lupena]

Originally Posted by jnet24 

I was being ridiculous too.  I think it stemmed for being at Mothering for so long.  i felt like I had to do all the things  the "right way" or I wouldn't be bonded enough to my little ones.  Then I was over tired, stressed, and at my wits end.  I still fall back into it.  I still lose my patience.  I yell too much.  But I am trying to set rules and boundaries that aren't OTT or not realistic for a 5 and 3 yr old.  This is such an interesting topic.

Well, I never would have thought of that! It is true, though - that many mamas here seem capable to the point of godliness.It inspires, but it also makes one feel very mere-mortal-ish.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Lupena 

Well, I never would have thought of that! It is true, though - that many mamas here seem capable to the point of godliness.It inspires, but it also makes one feel very mere-mortal-ish.

I've fallen prety to this more than once, but I'll mention something I've mentioned here a few times over the years.

We have moms here who are 24/7 AP (never put the child down, always babywear, take baby to the bathroom, etc.), and moms who do all kinds of amazing crafts, and moms who cook absolutely everything from scratch (including canning their own fruits and veggies, making their own pasta, if applicable, making their own yogurt, making all their own broths, etc.), and moms who homeschool four (or more) kids, and moms who run WAH businesses, and moms who WOH and go to school, and moms who keep a spotless house, and moms who....you get the picture. But, it's easy to forget that they're not all the same moms. I'm on the low energy end of the spectrum these days - but even high power, high energy moms only have 24 hours in a day. They can't make more than that.

Also...nobody here can see the homes of anyone else posting. Does someone who does a lot of crafts have a dedicated room, while someone who does very few is working on the dining table? Is someone who has a spotless house maintaining that, because they also have someone come in once a week to clean? Does someone who does 24/7 AP (in the always babywearing, etc. form) have a baby who responds well to that? (My own ds2 could be worn all the time, because he loved it. DD1 was pickier. DD2 hasn't tolerated since she was about a year old, and only sporadically before that.) How much sleep does Mama X need to function? How much sleep are her children letting her get? Did breastfeeding go well, or not-so-well, or horribly badly? How was the birth, or births (huge one in my life)?

Parenting has thousands, maybe millions, of variables (some others: partnered/not partnered, healthy relationship/unhealthy relationship, large house/small house, number of kids, financial situation, any special needs - parent or children - to consider, chronic illnesses, levels of family support, varying innate talents, and all the varying levels/degrees of all of the above). Not one parent has exactly the same situation as any other parent, so judging ourselves, or each other, based on what we see and/or what we do in our own lives, makes no sense.

[OneLove]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

In the long run any 15 y.o. won't be any more contented and happy because he had a sleep/nursing schedule, no more contented than the fifteen year old that was nursed on demand till he was 2. 

I don't necessarily believe this.  I think the baby that has its needs met is a better adjusted teen.  Of, course to your point, if the mother goes crazy, then that won't help either.

From what other moms describe about themselves here at MDC, I think I must be pretty selfish. And perhaps that benefited me and my kids.  Like someone else mentioned, I get super cranky if I don't eat well and regularly. So it benefited everyone involved, if when my kid wanted me to get out the painting supplies I simply said, "Sure, when I'm finished with my sandwich".  The same with innumerable little but important instances where I put my needs ahead of my kid's wants.  I have to admit I felt odd/bad about it sometimes, but the selfish part of me said, "sorry, I need this 20 more seconds in the bathroom by myself.  You are safe crying in the play chair, you will be just fine."  

I wonder if you kids make you wait when you ask them for things?  And are you okay with that?  Since you think this is an important thing to teach.  I make my kids wait for things, and then I have to remind myself of that training, when they don't jump up and do what I ask them to do, but rather say, "Just a minute."

I think the culture we live in is bizarre to infants (and kids).  I don't think taking a baby to the bathroom with you is ridiculous or overly altruistic.  A nomadic human with stone tools would not leave it's baby so it could sit on the toilet?  She probably went to the bathroom with the baby on.  And if Mom needed she probably always had someone to hand the baby too.  Just because we have toilets, and separate bedrooms doesn't mean our babies know that a lion isn't gonna get them. 

I also find myself responding to the term "ridiculous", in your later posts. It sounds judgmental.  I would use "ridiculous" to describe modern parenting practices that are the result of years of male doctors telling women how to parent and forcing them to deny their instincts.  To me, it is ridiculous for this culture to complain about how children behave while forcing both parents to work in order to survive comfortably, etc...

I find the biggest problem to be lack of support from other women and from society in generally.  Everyone seems to be busy being an adult, acting like a child themselves and not wanting to deal with the true demands of a small creature that is 100% dependent on you/adults.  People begrudge the presence of children and companies take advantage of children.  Parents are placed in a hostile environment where they are afraid of the parenting choices they make, mostly in response to other peoples opinions.  If someone wasn't telling you how to parent, then you wouldn't question what you were doing....

Severely edited for errors. 

[journeymom]

Excuse me, where did I use the term ridiculous?  Where did I ridicule anyone, or even their actions? 

In reference to holding baby while sitting on the toilet, I described my own self: baffled.  And I made a recommendation motivated by compassion for my fellow mamas, that they not deprive themselves to the tipping point. 

[journeymom]

Ah, I do see that several mamas have described themselves with that word.  Yes, I cringe when you call yourselves 'ridiculous'!  Please don't call yourself names. 

[journeymom]

I also find myself responding to the term "ridiculous", in your later posts. It sounds judgmental.  I would use "ridiculous" to describe modern parenting practices that are the result of years of male doctors telling women how to parent and forcing them to deny their instincts. I completely agree.  Are you implying that male doctors were telling me to deny my instincts when I chose not to respond to my child immediately?   To me, it is ridiculous for this culture to complain about how children behave while forcing both parents to work in order to survive comfortably, etc...  Huh? Is this still aimed at me?  I've been a stay-at-home-mom for fourteen years.  

Parents are placed in a hostile environment where they are afraid of the parenting choices they make, mostly in response to other peoples opinions.  If someone wasn't telling you how to parent, then you wouldn't question what you were doing.... TELL ME ABOUT IT...

[journeymom]

I apologize for being a bit of a terrier here, not wanting to give this up, but I'm feeling defensive.  MDC has been my companion for just shy of 10 years now.  We here at MDC, myself included, get into philosophy wars.  It's all really interesting and though-provoking. I love playing devil's advocate, taking one aspect of a conversation and saying, 'this point has been suggested, but did you look at it this other way?'   But it's also frustrating when it gets personal, because my strong hunch is that regardless of our philosophies, in action our parenting looks a lot alike.

For example: 

Either I nursed her to sleep, or she fell asleep on dh's or my lap late at night when we were exhausted, or dh walked her to sleep. From the time she was 2 y.o. she could not (would not) go to sleep without dh or me sitting on her bed, reading to her, singing or just waiting in the dark, while she chattered endlessly.

While I was far from thrilled with this experience -at times I was frustrated to tears feeling stuck because I just wanted to go to bed and sleep, and in my worst, most unhappy moments I wished I'd never gotten pregnant- I chose the above course of action. Because as far as I knew, the only alternative was to close the door and walk away, letting her cry it out alone, and that instinctively was not right for us. I just could not do that.

[captain optimism]

I think the point of the OP was to question how she'd treated her five-year-old when he was a baby because of his behavior now. 

I think a five-year-old with an infant sibling might be difficult no matter how he was parented as an infant himself. You have to respond to children in their current stage. That's why I'm vehemently opposed to parenting philosophies that are based on the idea that you deny comfort to a baby in order to turn him or her into an independent adult. 

It's also why you can ask more of a kid when he's five than you did when he was a toddler. 

This digression about who brings the baby into the bathroom is very interesting, but like the question of the five-year-old's behavior, it's not really about fostering healthy attachment. You don't have to be an AP parent for your toddler to wonder where you are going when you go to pee, or for your baby to happen to cry for you when you really need to poop. Competing needs are a feature of family life.   Just the way it goes! 

[Youngfrankenstein]

For some reason I can't quote  you, OneLove, but some of the things you said are exactly the kinds of words that put moms into PPD....you need to think outside of YOUR experience AND what "society in America" is doing.  We are at MDC because we see the "societal" way and we don't think it's the way we want to parent.  We are all already coming from an AP perspective here.  Enough judgement.

I think stone-age examples are useless.  The good old days weren't all that great. 

And you really think babies are in fear of being eaten by lions?

I can't even......

I can't stand the "well, YOU (dumb, uninformed, mainstream) can do that, but I NEVER would!"