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What do you think about vaccinating later on in life? - Page 2

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post



Yep, I know. That's why I thought I might post my experience of being one of a group of people- and now that I think about it, there were hundreds of others in country who had the same mega-vaccine experience- and we have been fine. No I haven't followed up on everyone asking if they have lupus or RA, but we are in close contact. Everyone is fine. My experience in Kenya ended in 2005 so it's been 6.5 years. You tend not to hear from the "silent majority" on threads like this.


I think you're making an assumption that it IS a "silent majority."  There is no way to know what the numbers are for adults who had mega-vaccine experiences and either did or did not come down with an associated autoimmune disorder.

 

You say you are fine.  I believe you.  

 

I had a mega-vaccine experience and immediately came down with several autoimmune problems that I did not have before.

 

It really doesn't matter whether you are in the majority, or whether I am.  I'll even make the assumption that it IS a minority of us--perhaps one or more subgroups--who are reacting thus to vaccines. The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults.

 

Instead of saying, "well, I'm fine, and everyone I know is fine," it would be helpful if you could join me in encouraging, no, DEMANDING, that scientists, researchers, doctors, and, yes, the dang pharmaceutical industry START TO LOOK FOR THE AT-RISK SUBGROUPS.

 

The research is currently set up so that it is impossible to identify these subgroups.

 

Why do vaccines harm some but not all?  Is it a genetic predisposition?  Nutritional deficiencies? (We actually have some clues here--people who are vitamin-A deficient are at greater risk for measles complications as well as measles vaccine complications; people with vitamin D deficiency become glutathione-deficient, and glutathione is needed to excrete heavy metals in vaccines, like mercury and aluminum.) Are medical personnel not vigilant enough about making sure the vaccine recipient is not already ill? Is there a likelihood of complications if OTC meds are given at the time of vaccination (like Tylenol--some research indicates that this is indeed a major problem)? Is hormone balance or imbalance a factor?

 

This opens up a whole new can of worms:  how do you ethically study the effect of vaccines in at-risk subgroups if the vaccine is more likely to cause an adverse reaction in those subgroups?

 

Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations.

 

 

 

post #22 of 30

"The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults."

 

Really? Honest request, if you have research stating that adults who receive multiple vaccines have a statistically significant higher rate of autoimmune disorders than the rest of the adult population, I would like to see it. 

 

ETA: The vax boards are full of posters using their personal stories as iron clad proof that vaccines cause any number of diseases. I'm throwing in my experience as someone whose immune system is apparently not as touchy as some, who was vaccinated like crazy along with many other healthy adults, and had no problems.

post #23 of 30

"Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations."

 

"That's your call. I don't recall anyone saying you should?

post #24 of 30

http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/

 

To answer my own question, this is an interesting paper. It's a lit review so it would be good to chase down the individual studies cited but it's a good starting point.

post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

"The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults."

 

Really? Honest request, if you have research stating that adults who receive multiple vaccines have a statistically significant higher rate of autoimmune disorders than the rest of the adult population, I would like to see it. 

 

ETA: The vax boards are full of posters using their personal stories as iron clad proof that vaccines cause any number of diseases. I'm throwing in my experience as someone whose immune system is apparently not as touchy as some, who was vaccinated like crazy along with many other healthy adults, and had no problems.

http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/

 

Vaccines and Autoimmune Diseases of the Adult

 

Published on February 4, 2010


Author: Hedi Orbach

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Department of Medicine B, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel

Author: Nancy Agmon-Levin

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Center for Autoimmune Diseases & Department of Medicine B, Sheba Medical Center
Address: Ramat Gan, Israel

Author: Gisele Zandman-Goddard

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Department of Medicine C, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel 
Institution: Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University 
Address: Tel-Aviv, Israel

 

"Infectious agents contribute to the environmental factors involved in the development of autoimmune diseases possibly through molecular mimicry mechanisms. Hence, it is feasible that vaccinations may also contribute to the mosaic of autoimmunity. Evidence for the association of vaccinations and the development of these diseases is presented in this review."

*************************************

 

Incredibly, while there are plenty of studies and case-reports of vaccine-induced autoimmune disorders in adults, nobody seems to have bothered to study the possibility that multiple vaccines increase the likelihood of vaccine-induced autoimmune disorders.

 

Or, if there have been any such studies, they are awfully well-buried.

 

It does seem to be a logical assumption that, if a single vaccine can cause or trigger autoimmune disorders, multiple vaccines increase that likelihood.

 

Then again, the current vaccination program is built on what looks like logical assumptions--and some of those assumptions (such as, it is safe to inject mercury and aluminum) are obviously flawed.

 

Bottom line:  more information is needed.

 

post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

"Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations."

 

"That's your call. I don't recall anyone saying you should?



My point is, how are you going to ethically study the effects of vaccination on a segment of the population who has adverse reactions to vaccination? Especially reactions that involve autoimmunity?

What are you going to do, gather a population of people who are likely to have such reactions and tell them you want to vaccinate them to elicit those reactions so you can study them???

 

 

post #27 of 30

I think a likely way the research will be done is looking for clues in those people's genetic codes as to why they had those reactions, and if/once the clues are found, breed mice with the same or similar mutations and test vaccines on them. Assuming that in this way you can narrow down the problem to one or two key mutations, a simple blood test would be developed for those mutations. Perhaps it would be added at birth to the panel of tests for genetic diseases, like PKU.

 

(I oversimplified the crap out of that, I know.  IANAG- I am not a geneticist! lol)

post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

I think a likely way the research will be done is looking for clues in those people's genetic codes as to why they had those reactions, and if/once the clues are found, breed mice with the same or similar mutations and test vaccines on them. Assuming that in this way you can narrow down the problem to one or two key mutations, a simple blood test would be developed for those mutations. Perhaps it would be added at birth to the panel of tests for genetic diseases, like PKU.

 

(I oversimplified the crap out of that, I know.  IANAG- I am not a geneticist! lol)


I think that that is one valid direction to take, but even without oversimplifying the issue, it's far too limited.


What about people who react, not  because of their genetic codes, but react to a later exposure because of previous exposure to something? Or people who had such a mild reaction to their first vaccines that the reaction wasn't noticeable, but subsequent vaccinations proved to cause increasingly severe reactions? In cases like that, the assumption is always that they had never reacted before, just because nobody NOTICED the reaction.

What about people who seem to over-react to adjuvants, and whose immune systems are triggered to react not only to the antigen in the vaccines but to anything else they might be exposed to at the same time?  Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway.

 

There are too many variables.  Scientists want to look for the 1 magic bullet that is causing a problem, when in fact there is a whole firing squad.

 

post #29 of 30

"Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway."

 

Uh. Source?

post #30 of 30

This is actually common knowledge/discussion among us celiac/gluten intolerant folk.

here are a few links you may find interesting:

 

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/05/emmer-einkorn-and-agribusiness.html

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703846604575447413874799110.html (look at the environmental links section at the bottom)

 

http://www.naturopath.co.nz/Articles/Digestive+Problems/Celiac+Gluten+and+Allergies+-+Part+1.html

 

http://surefoodsliving.com/2010/09/a-brief-history-of-wheat-and-why-it-is-making-us-sick/

 

really just google the history of wheat and you can read for days



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

"Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway."

 

Uh. Source?



 

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