How much of this is on me? How much is on my baby-to-be?

[happy2bamama]

Hello ladies - 

I am TTC #2 and it took us 18 months with my DS (who is now 5). We've been at it for a handful of months and I am finding myself bumping against some of the same emotional and physical things I did with TTC my DS. Of course, there were SO many things I learned about myself in 18 months of TTC but something that came up then and is coming up now are these questions...

How much of trying to get pregnant is on me (and DH) and how much is just part of the baby-to-be's path, that I can't change?

I know that there really is no answer to those questions - we really can't know, but I wanted to throw it out there and see how you all feel about it and cope with that HUGE unanswerable question. Can we really speed up another being's timeline?? (I don't know, maybe we can?? Would love to hear thoughts on this!) And if not, are we making ourselves crazy by doing all these things to TTC that won't matter anyway??

My reason for asking is this - how I *think* that question is answered will determine how I chose to move forward with TTC. The first time around, I did everything - I temped for months, did yoga, got acupuncture, ate pineapple, took Fertilaid, etc. and after about 13 months, I felt angry because I had been doing all this stuff that was supposed to speed up that which I wanted so badly, but none of it had worked. And then a lightbulb went on - what if I am, in fact, totally healthy and fine, and this baby has his or her own timeline to follow that has nothing to do with me eating pineapple (or doing yoga or acupuncture...)?! That changed a lot for me and I stopped looking at myself like I was broken and like this was all on me to make happen. I felt a huge sense of relief. Coincidentally, we got pregnant about four months after that and I was really at peace with the process.

So, here I find myself again, wondering if I should be doing anything on my part to help make this happen. Even though things clicked for me last time when I stopped doing so much, what if this time is different and I need a boost? Should I be exercising more, should I be getting Maya Abdominal Massage, should I got back to temping even though I know when I ovulate, etc.? Will it change anything, aside from making me feel broken again and spending more time than I want on TTC?

Part of me feels like it can't hurt to do some of these things as long as I don't have an attachment to the outcome - as long as I don't expect that these will get me pregnant, but instead see them as doing something nice for myself and my overall health. (Which I know is easier said than done).

How do you all handle this? Do you do everything within your power to get pregnant? If so, how do you feel (and cope) when it doesn't pan out? Or, do you try to chill back a let it happen when it will happen? And when that doesn't pan out, how do you feel and how do you cope?

I was talking to a friend about this the other day and I was saying how it irritates me when people say, "It will happen when it will happen," because they aren't mentioning the free will that we have to help it move along and all the things we have at our fingertips, but then I'm also annoyed when people say, "You should do more yoga (or whatever)," because then they aren't mentioning the fact that it is about more things than just me!

There has to be a more balanced middle ground that looks at TTC more hollisitically with all the different threads that it contains.

That is what I'm looking for :) I don't see too many posts on here about this more emotional/philosophical sort of thing, so TIA for any thoughts! 

[happy2bamama]

Bumping 

I'm actually surprised that no one has commented - there is so much on here in terms of technicalities about TTC, but nothing about the heart of it (which is what underlies the technicalities). Perhaps my long-winded post has scared people off! 

[heatherparker]

I really like this question and I like you for asking it:) DH and I have only been trying for about 3.5 months and this will be our first, but already I have become so superstitious about/obsessed with ttc. If I totaled up all the time I spend staring at my chart throughout the day it would probably add up to hours...a couple months of this is not a big deal, but if it keeps going this way I will drive myself crazy!

The first month I was convinced I would get pregnant just because we had finally started trying. After years of trying to convince DH I felt like I had already done the waiting and the universe would let me skip that part! Haha. Every month since I've obsessed during the 2WW, usually ending up here reading about what other people have tried. In a way it's nice because it makes me feel normal for obsessing about every possible 'symptom' but in a way it's bad because I get hung up on a different reason why it's not happening yet...not enough egg white cm, a 3-4 day lapse in sex, using lube occasionally, or forgetting to take my vitamins.

I really like what you said about not thinking about yourself as broken. It is so easy to beat myself up over what I haven't done, worry, or go straight to 'there's something wrong with me'. I'm going to try to stop thinking that way from this point on. If a year goes by and still nothing I'll worry about it then. In the end I choose to believe that when our baby is ready to come it will come and there is not a whole lot (besides having sex) that I can do about it.

so thanks, happy2bamama, your post kind of helped me figure out how I felt about it. I hope you get some clarity too!

[happy2bamama]

Yay! Thank you for responding :)

I so know what you mean about thinking it would happen quickly just because you started trying. A+B=C, right??! I felt the same way with my first DS - I was SHOCKED when I wasn't pregnant in the first couple of months. And even now, I thought that because it took us 18 months to conceive him, the universe would surely grant me a quick one this time. I've learned all my lessons regarding fertility, right? Ha! But that's what everyone says - oh, it took them forever the first time and the next time was so fast, they weren't expecting it. It's hard not to get attached to those kinds of stories.

One of the struggles I've had this time has been coming to grips with the fact that it isn't happening faster and what I am telling myself about that. Because this isn't happening quickly, I am ___________. And words to fill in that blank that come to mind are broken, not ready, infertile, unhealthy...  When I sit with those thoughts and self-beliefs, it feels terrible and when I go deeper, I really don't believe them. I don't believe I'm broken - my cycle is pretty stellar. I am ready (and of course have days where I'm not!). I don't believe I'm INfertile - heck, I have had a baby before. But it's hard to let each month go by and not tell myself some story about why it isn't happening. Our brains want to make logical sense of it, but what happens when there is no logic to the why and the how?

Some months, I desperately try to remember what I did differently the month we conceived my son - or what was my mental state like, so that I can recreate it - and all I come back to is, I was doing nothing out of the ordinary. Actually, I was doing the least I had done to TTC over those 18 months. But I also wasn't completely detached from it - I still was in it and I remember going to www.twoweekwait.com. So personally, I think I'm a little less inclined to be doing a bunch of stuff to TTC because that's not what "worked" last time. On the other hand, I don't necessarily believe that doing nothing is what got me pregnant. Honestly, I won't ever know what "did" it!

We conceived DS at the end of March, 2006 and I sometimes think, what if we had started trying in like February of 2006, instead of 18 months sooner? This journey would've been COMPLETELY different. I would've been one of those women with the "oh, I got pregnant the first month of trying" story. But nothing would've changed in my body - I wouldn't really have been any more fertile, but I sure would've seem myself as that.

And again, I come back to timing. Sometimes our timing and the baby that we are bringing in's timing may not be on the same page. And that doesn't mean anything about our fertility, but the hard part is that we won't know that at the time.

That's not to say that there aren't real fertility issues or biological struggles out there. Of course there are. But I'm more talking about those of us that are in that category of everything is working right, but we're not pregnant yet.

I laughed when you talked about worrying about not taking your vitamins - I'm so with you on that! I volunteer at a safe house with pregnant women and I think one of the best lessons from that (and there are many) is that these women have not been eating a fertility diet. They have not been doing yoga. They are stressed - in ways that many of us can't even imagine. They aren't ready to be moms. They don't chart their cycles. They don't take vitamins. They think CM is some sort of gross "discharge." And yet they are pregnant. Many of them have a handful of kids. Seeing this reality has let me be able to let up on myself when I forget vitamins or aren't doing yoga or manifesting it or whatever. Those things don't get you pregnant. I don't know what does - and I believe it has to do with many threads such as the baby's timing, the universe's timing, our cycles, the wind, who the heck else knows - but I do know that we don't have to be perfect in order to have a baby :)

[Mom2010]

Wow.  Nice post.  

 I just started taking B6 today, in hopes it will help lengthen my LP phase.  Now, if I get pregnant in a couple of months, one could argue it was going to happen anyway. Well then, no harm done.  But what if it was the B6, then I would have never had that pregnancy.  

It doesn't have to be one way or the other....If I believe that what will be will be, and I didn't do anything "extra", and didn't get pregnant, I would always wonder if it was because I didn't try hard enough.   However, I can get wrapped up in researching everything for hours on end, and looking at my charts all day long, and obsessing with what else I could be doing, and practically going emotionally crazy. The emotional tension that this creates is also to much for me.  So, I find an in-between.  

This is what I do... in the mornings I take my temp, OPK, Prenatal, and B6..  Then...I try to let everything go...so I don't stress. At night, after my DD goes to bed, I will fill in my chart, and ask any questions I might need help with.  I place a limit on "Internet time".  So, about 5 minutes in the morning, and 30Min's to an hour depending on my concerns at night. I try to do what I can to achieve a successful pregnancy, and be mindful of when I am overdoing it.

 I will say that this doesn't make my CD1 any less disappointing, it just makes my "journey" a little easier.  When this happens I am comforted slightly by knowing I am doing the best I can, no more, no less. And when I get really upset about the thought of not being able to have another, I try turn all of the disappointment I feel about the child I may not have into joy for the one I do.  Literally!  Sometimes I literally have to turn around, look at my DD, and just dote her with love, and remind my self that I am completely okay with with whatever happens because I have a wonderful husband and amazing daughter.  Again...this is just how I handle this for me.  I hope I answered your question, and that this helps you in one way or the other.   

Good luck, and here's to hoping we get pregnant soon so we don't have to worry about it anyway!  

[monkeyscience]

I think there is definitely some truth to the fact that the timing of babies isn't completely under control. As a Christian, I certainly believe God has a hand in these things - though I also believe that He allows our actions to influence the outcome. Hence the reason that people who are totally unprepared and not trying get pregnant (because they had sex, and sex can lead to babies) - not necessarily because God wills it that way (though He could obviously prevent it), but because he allows us choice. I certainly think God had a hand in the timing of our getting pregnant, and I even think I see some of the reasons it took so long. At the same time, I don't think we would have gotten pregnant that cycle if I hadn't been using OPKs and Pre-Seed and my DivaCup, although I can never know that for sure. And I do think that the year or so of anovulation during TTC was primarily due to the stress I was under at work, not divine influence, though again, I could be wrong. But I don't think I would have magically gotten pregnant in November if we had been TTA up to that point. I think going through IF was part of our journey as individuals and as a couple, so I doubt we would have skipped that phase by just starting to try later.

I do think there is something to be said for letting go and letting God work. OTOH, you haven't mentioned ever having any sort of fertility testing done on you or or dh. Obviously, whether or not you do that is a personal decision, but I think it makes sense to get some basic testing done to rule out some fixable problems, or to give you an idea on where to concentrate any natural healing methods you'd like to use. You do say you chart and appear to be ovulating, which is definitely something. But have you ever had your tubes checked to see if they are open? Has your dh ever had a semen analysis done to see how his swimmers are doing? All the fertility work on yourself won't do much if the problem is your dh. I really think knowledge is power, in this case.

Good luck, whatever you choose!

[happy2bamama]

I love both of your posts - thank you!

mom2010 -  "When this happens I am comforted slightly by knowing I am doing the best I can, no more, no less." Thank you, that is the kind of stuff I'm looking for - what do you say to yourself to cope and this is gold. That really resonates with me - especially the no less part - because that means that there are things that can be done, but not necessarily to excess. Somewhere in between and whatever it is is perfect. I also really like how you do what you want to do (OPKs, B6, etc.) and then let it go and limit your internet time. That works for me until the the last week of the 2WW. That last week just does something to me. I try to resist it and it's like the more I do, the worse it gets! How do you handle that last week? Or do you not find it harder?

monkeyscience - you bring up some great points and actually have my wheels turning. With my DS, we never got checked fertility-wise. Part of that was because I just wanted to believe that everything was okay and part of it was because I really didn't want it to become medical at ALL. I wanted to trust that it would happen. Whenever I talked to people who were my parent's age, they all said the same thing, "Back then, we waited. We didn't think anything was wrong with us. We just knew that some people got pregnant fast, some took a year, some took more..." and I think I really held onto that as the more grass-roots way to view it. It felt better than worrying did, to me. Especially since so many people were like, "When are you going to get tested? You know, you can take Clomid..." so there was a little rebel in there that didn't want to hear what those well-intending people had to say and wanted to prove them wrong.

But honestly, I have thought about getting tested this time. There are times when I feel like it can't just be a coincidence that we didn't get pregnant quickly BOTH times - that there must be something going on. But then there are times when I think it could be and that patience would serve me better than testing. Because I have gotten pregnant before, I know it's possible, so I ask myself, "If you did go the doctor and had a test done and it did show that your tubes were blocked (or something else), would you do something to change that (more medical stuff), or would you rather wait and see if and when it happens naturally, even knowing that you have this issue?" I really fluctuate about this and go back and forth between trust and outside control. My heart right now is not as desperate as it may be a year from now, so I know my thoughts on it might change.

I did chart my temps for about three cycles this time and yes, I am ovulating and actually have copious amounts of fertile CM. My luteal phase was on the short side, but I did have some Maya Abdominal Massage done and am drinking a certain kind of tea that has helped make it longer. I have TCOYF on my bedside table as well as The Infertility Cure (awesome book about Traditional Chinese Medicine's take on fertility) and have read about the fertility obstacles (blocked tubes, etc.) and I don't seem to fit those symptoms. I have thought about having DH checked. It would be really nice to know what he brings to the table because if he had some slow or sparse swimmers, at least I wouldn't be losing my mind over trying to figure out what *I* can do! What has held me back from having him tested is that I feel like I want to protect his feelings about this. What might he feel like if they say he has low sperm count or something? Will he feel like less of a man? I know that I am not responsible for protecting him from reality, but I think that has been part of what has been holding me back.

But I can see your point about how knowledge is power. Hmmm, you've got me thinking... (thank you for that)

[monkeyscience]

I totally get what you're saying about just being patient - I don't think it's a bad thing, and some of it just depends on personality, too. And definitely testing will open the door to the possibility of more medicalized treatment, which I can understand not wanting. But you can also say no to that treatment, too. I did actually do one medicated round of treatment which did not work. And again, I think it was a combination of things. I think our timing with DTD wasn't the greatest (because we were out of town for a funeral), but I also don't think it was God's timing for us, even though I felt at peace about doing the treatment. I would have ended up pregnant at the exact same time as my SIL, who was pregnant with twins and ended up being on bedrest, and really needing my help. I don't think that would have worked out well at all, trying to stretch the family resources to cover two pregnancies and three babies all at once. Plus, I've had terrible morning sickness until just recently, and I would have had a very hard time finishing the school year (I was a teacher) if I'd gotten pregnant and morning sick when we did the medication. So I do think it was for the best that it didn't work out. Once I quit my job, I finally started ovulating on my own again, and that gave me a reason to try to be more patient with my body, because it was actually doing something! And I think that patience paid off. When/if it comes time to TTC another little bean, I guess I'll just be taking things as they come in deciding if/when to go with medical intervention.

There are quite a few ladies around MDC who have had one baby pretty easily, and are still trying for a second, years and years after the first one came along, so while having one baby is awesome, it doesn't necessarily mean a second will ever happen on its own. But it totally might, and if you feel good with being patient for now, I think that's totally fine. But if you're feeling like testing might bring you some answers, I'd definitely consider. It is mostly likely not a coincidence that it's taking you awhile the second time, too. As far as your dh... yeah, a lot of men really do take it hard if their SA isn't great. Which I think is really silly, but certainly true. So that is something to keep in mind. To me, though, protecting my dh's feelings wasn't a good enough reason to not know the truth. He is a grown up, and he's got to be able to face the truth as much as I do. Of course, I was diagnosed with PCOS before we married, and knew I had ovulation problems for years, so I was already pretty used to facing my own issues with that. Fortunately, my dh had a great SA, so he just got to strut around feeling proud of how good his sperm were. Which I also find very irrational, but there you have it. If your dh does end up being tested, and things are great, I know there are several ladies whose dhs have improved their SA a lot with supplements and lifestyle changes, so there are some things he could possibly do.

Anyway, after my relative lack of patience with TTC, I'm trying very hard to have a patient and un-medicalized pregnancy. Which is hard, but I think worth it. I know I could go to an OB and get a bunch of ultrasounds and buy my own doppler and try to listen to the baby every day, but I'm not. I'm sticking with minimal testing and trying to just accept that what will be will be with this pregnancy. It's an interesting process, especially when a lot of people around me are wondering when we're getting another ultrasound and what the tests are saying and what's going on, and I just have to say, "Well, the baby is the size of a fig right now, probably, and as far as I can tell, everything is fine!" But it is definitely healing from the year and a half of stressing over my body's brokenness.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by monkeyscience 

Fortunately, my dh had a great SA, so he just got to strut around feeling proud of how good his sperm were. Which I also find very irrational, but there you have it.

That made me laugh out loud! I just picture this rooster type of movement with head cocking and all!!

When you talked about "God's" timing and how it wouldn't have worked with your SIL needing your help - this is the thing that in hindsight is so easy to see, but in the moment, it's all murky. After that 18 months of TTC my DS, when we finally conceived, I felt like, "This is the perfect timing! Any earlier would not have worked as well," so I'm trying to remember that this time around and allot for it. Even if it isn't a coincidence that it's taking a while again, maybe that IS part of "God's" (or the universe's) plan for me. Maybe not getting pregnant quickly is part of my destiny and even though when I want to get pregnant, it sucks, perhaps it has served me in other ways I'll never know.

Okay, so if I do get to the point of wanting to get DH's sperm analyzed, where do we go to do that?

[monkeyscience]

Yeah, hindsight is great, isn't it? If only we could get hindsight ahead of time!

If you do decide you want a semen analysis, there's a few places you could go. An RE (reproductive endocrinologist) could definitely order one, though they would probably want to work with you as a couple and do a lot of tests - which could be good or bad, depending on your preferences. But they will definitely be oriented toward making a medical plan to get you pregnant, and they're often expensive. On the other hand, any urologist should be able to order the test for your dh. When we decided to have my dh's SA prior to meeting with an RE, dh just got online and Googled it, and found a doctor who advertised on the web that they would do a SA for a certain amount, you just called and gave them your credit card number and they sent you the paperwork to go to the lab with. They did want dh to come in for a follow-up visit afterwards, but he got them to just send him the results in the mail. The doctor wrote "excellent fertility" along the bottom of his results, which is what made dh so proud. dh remained convinced for awhile that his super sperm could somehow compensate for the utter lack of my ovaries producing an egg, even though I explained (multiple times) that this was biologically impossible. I know he understands it, but I think he secretly still doesn't believe it.

[Mom2010]

HEHE!  I thought of a really cute baseball analogy today on this topic...I wanted to share it.  So, It's like I'm playing a game of baseball.  Everyone is playing their own game.  Some people are getting these nice soft straight pitches and hitting "home runs" crazy fast.  But somehow I have the fast balls, curve balls, and fake outs.  lol  So, I know I have to keep playing and swinging to hit that "home run", But I keep missing, fouling, and grounding.  So...Now I'm asking the "Pros's" for advice.  And they are saying things like, straighten your stance, bend your knees, tighten your grip...okay got it.  (You bet I'm gonna do all that)  Sometimes they say..buy this glove, get this kind of bat.  As long as it's within my "price range"...done.  Now...I can stand at the mound and just swing all day long with the thought surely if I just sit here and swing all day I'll have to at least hit this darn thing...lol.  However, swinging aimlessly and wildly can actually hurt your chances of hitting that home run.  Your arms are tired, your stance is failing...  So, I have to just do the best when the ball comes, and hope for the perfect pitch, perfect swing...and perfect weather conditions.  (However no one said a couple of "practice swings" ever hurt anyone right?  lololol)  I don't know how I came up with this earlier but I had to share it.

So, now for the "real" stuff...The TWW!!!   This is indeed very difficult for me as well.  I would hate to give you the impression that I have figured out some way to calmly and collectively handle this time frame.  Not even close.  Last month I thought I had it.  The perfect pitch, the perfect swing...it was that gosh darn it weather conditions that must have got me.  During my TWW I was so unbelievably certain that i was gonna pop positive that I tested EVER DAY....  starting like, two days after O.  Not even kidding.  I started testing morning and night...taking apart my tests, holding the strip to the kitchen light, staring for minutes looking for the line...and returning to see if I missed it.  I starting buying multiple brands and testing multiples at a time.  When I got my monthly notice....I was shocked....   This is when I filled out a chart, and noticed that it came right on time.  So, my coping mechanisms are new...and my plan is to try to not test till right around my first missed day.  If I come up with something that really helps me through that time I will definitely share.  But on that one...I am right with you.  

You said that the harder you try to not "test" or worry during your TWW the worse it gets.  I don't know if this will actually help, but I will use a "sweet tooth" analogy for this one.  Sometimes you get a sweet tooth, and if you ignore it for a really long time, you end up pounding a whole chocolate cake (or whatever) two days later.  Sometimes if you get a sweet tooth...just grab a mini Hersey and take the edge off.  If you have the money...take a test...even if you know it will pop neg...if you need to just do something to take the edge off. (Now, don't do this if the negative result that you know you are going to get is going to disappoint, just a "I know this is going to be a negative, but just for kicks...) Or, another option...just post...get on her and say...I'm TWW and going CRAZY Pls someone talk to me...I have to get out my feelings of....   We all know what that is like.     There is a flip side to this approach... If you keep eating mini Hersey's at some point you aren't going to be able to get through the day without your mini Hersey.  Find out what the perfect balance is for you.  A mini Hersey a day?  lol....or however.  

Good lord...lol...I hope this didn't come off all mumbo jumbo...I can see it now "I asked her about a TWW and she started talking to me about baseball games, home runs, chocolate cakes and mini Hershey's.  Steer clear of that one."  lol   

Again...this is just the advice I give from behind the keyboard...Do as I say not as I do....  That TWW is hard. I will definitely let you know if I find a system that works for me.  

[mexilady]

Thanks for these really lovely posts. These are feelings that I have been wrestling with recently as well. I was certain I would be one of those first month trying types, but almost a year later, with no luck it is really easy to get super discouraged and impatient. I just finished nursing school, and my science brain has been so wrapped up in the details of conception that I have felt in the past that there must be some way to control it, and make this pregnancy thing happen for us. All tests so far have come back normal, including a my DHs SA. So it is really frustrating. Recently however, I have decided to stop being so damn mean to myself about this fertility thing, I have been an anxious control freak, and not trusting my body, and I that is not working to well for me. I have been so impatient on a month to month basis that I am not even looking at the big picture anymore.  I know in my heart though that God knows the family we are going to have, and maybe it has not been time for these babies yet. I just accepted an amazing labor and delivery job right out of school, and now looking back if I would have gotten pregnant when we first started trying I would have an infant right now, while studying for boards and starting a really demanding orientation, not to mention that I possibly would not have been hired if I would have had  to take maternity leave in the middle of my orientation. Sometimes I think we don't have a full perception of time the way that God does. I have struggled to not spiritualize this issue to much, because I don't want to get pissed at God if this struggle lasts longer than we would like, but I also am holding strong to the belief that I will not be left alone in my sadness about this, and that one way or another, when our life is ready for it, we will be blessed with amazing kids, and they will shake their heads when they are older, and say, I am glad that I came when I did, otherwise it would have been another baby and not me!

[happy2bamama]

mom2010 - Actually, I LOVE metaphors, so thank you for the baseball one! It makes lots of sense. I enjoyed how you talked about other people hitting nice soft, straight ones and you getting curve balls, fouls, etc. Sometimes it really does feel like that! I specifically love the part about "as long as it's in my price range..." We all have a "price range" when it comes to TTC - how much we're willing to do, try, chart, read, spend, etc. And I really liked this too, "I can stand at the mound and just swing all day long with the thought surely if I just sit here and swing all day I'll have to at least hit this darn thing," - that opened my eyes to the possibility of doing things to make the process easier for me. It's like stacking the deck in your favor and then seeing where the cards fall. Yeah, I can get behind that.

I also got your Hershey Kiss/chocolate cake analogy! I do feel like the more I try to resist it, the worse it gets and then I find myself on www.twoweekwait.com ALL day whereas had I let myself think about it a bit, visit the site here or there, maybe I wouldn't be "pigging out" on it. Testing, for me, makes me even crazier. Because I never believe it when it's negative. I still don't know. I only test if I'm a day late. But I know that for some people, it gives them some kind of "info" that is reassuring or at least just something. I have seen so many negative tests in my day that it really brings up hopelessness and I can't bear to see more negative tests than I need to. Once I get a positive, then I'll test everyday just to see all the positives!! But it does feel good to know that I'm not alone in my craziness of that last week :)

mexilady - thanks for your thoughts. You're right about the big picture being hard to see. We can get so caught up in the week by week and month by month that it's hard to see the whole "plan." I have to say, when we finally did conceive my DS, it was like I completely forgot what TTC was like. It was onto the next thing (which was trying to deal with morning sickness for 3 months!), but it just goes to show that something that feels like an eternity can change at the drop of a hat (or a swim of a sperm)!

I actually had a really cathartic chat with DH tonight about all of this. We hadn't really talked about it much - it had kind of been this thing we were trying to do, but not really trying to do. And in my ambivalence about it (which was just a protection strategy so that I could say, "Oh, we really aren't trying trying..."), I have been just that, ambivalent. And so has DH because he thought we weren't supposed to be talking about it because that meant we were focusing too much on it! But, we need to be focusing on it. I am kidding myself if I think that we're not really trying. DH even pointed at that we aren't having nearly as much sex this time around and part of that is because I have been wanting to not force it and only have sex if I'm in the mood. But the reality is that we are trying to have a baby and we HAVE to have sex at the right time if we want that to happen. If we don't want it to happen, or don't care either way, we can keep having this one-time a month sex, but our intention is to have another baby, so we have to well, have lots of sex! As DH put it, "Let's make a baby - let's do all the things it takes to do that!" and honestly, hearing him say that gave me such relief and allowed me to go forward whole-heartedly. It's not going to be easy and there likely to be moments of disappointment, but we are working towards something we want. There is no shame in that.

Another thing I realized is that I think I have been holding onto this fantasy of it happening fast and easy for us, without having to "force" it. I think I have been hoping that we'll do the bare minimum and get pregnant and then I can feel like it didn't have to be work this time or that we weren't really trying. But that's not our reality right now. Like my DH lovingly said, "That's not who we are. It takes us a little time to get pregnant."

We're not ready to go out and get tested, but we are ready to have a more focused approach and to really try for this in a more deliberate way. I have to admit, I am scared that it will be like last time and we will be doing this for 18 months, but if I keep doing it ambivalently, it may be years or never. TTC is just like birth - the only way out is through. There is no side-stepping the journey, there is no coming out unscathed.

I'm feeling more hopeful, more excited and just happy to have DH on my team and to have this mutual intention. I usually don't involve him in all the TTC stuff because I hate to have him go on the roller coaster with me, but if I don't, then I am alone. 

[Mom2010]

 TTC is just like birth - the only way out is through. 

I really like this. 

I am glad you were able to talk to your DH as well.  

I must say I enjoyed this.  It is nice to talk to someone who seems to think much like I do.   In giving you advice, I found that I was actually giving myself advice.  I was thinking more of what may help me and just saying it in an answer to you.  It seems a little silly, to be saying something to a person, that I have been needing to say to myself for a while.  

[happy2bamama]

Thanks for listening/talking :) That's why it's so nice to connect with other women because it really all comes back to us. What we say out to them is a reflection of what we say in to us. I love being able to discuss things like this to help me open my eyes to things I haven't seen before. And the best part is that it ends up helping all of us to ask ourselves these important questions 

I'm sure I will be posting here again as I find myself running into walls or not sure of what is in my emotional "price range."

[happy2bamama]

Okay, I'm already back! I am looking into what we can do to boost our changes of getting pregnant and I am confused about what things I even can do, now that I'm at the stage of even being open to them. I was browsing fertility stuff on Amazon.com today and I found myself asking the question, "What am I trying to fix?" Most of the products are for evening out your cycle or fixing certain issues (no fertile CM, lengthening luteal phase, etc.), but I don't really have a "problem" to fix. So, are there things to help boost fertility that aren't directly addressing an issue? And that question right there seems sort of silly in itself - why am I trying to fix something that doesn't appear to be broken?!

If there's anything that I could think of, I sometimes have short luteal phases. But sometimes I have nice, average ones too. I have always wondered if I have enough progesterone. I have plenty of  CM. So, is there anything out there that would even help me without being a complete waste of $? Or that can help boost DH? Do the general men's fertility boosters work? What have you tried and liked? I saw some Fertilitea that looked like a good option (and I like tea) but some people in the reviews were saying that if your cycle is regular, beware because it can shake it up a bit. Hmmm, not sure about that. I read about PreSeed and I just don't think we need it. I have plenty of fertile CM and honestly, some of the parabens in PreSeed make me a little nervous since that's such a sensitive (and internal!) area that it's going into. But I hadn't thought about the ph of DH's sperm being an issue before. Thoughts on that??

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

[happy2bamama]

Oh and I know nothing of OPK's - do those really work?? 

[keeptryst]

To respond to the original post, I've been through my share of "the only way out is through" emotional work of ttc#2 and thought I'd share my take on it.

ttc#1 was relatively quick (3-4 months), so like many of you I was shocked when #2 didn't happen right away. Went through the obsessive compulsive research-manic phase. Went through the gut-wrenching roller coaster of hoping hard each month. Now, 18 months later (or thereabouts, don't really count anymore), amazingly enough, I'm anchored in a calm harbour, in a place where I'm cool with anything that happens. It's strange that the longer you are denied, the more you come to terms with it. If I do get pregnant with #2 sometime I'd be happy - but not over-the-top happy. If all I ever have is my DS (now 4-and-a half yrs old), I'd be just as happy. I think it was worth all that suffering to come to a place of equanimity like this. While I was in the storm of desperately wanting #2, I considered medical help, but when I tuned in to my inner self, my gut intuition was that there is nothing wrong with my body, so I stayed put. Cycles are regular, everything's good.

What I observed was how the mind can make whatever I am not getting into this final beautitude after which I will never want anything anymore. It can make it seem like there are no tough parts to having a second child, like it's all rainbows and butterflies, like it's this perfect heaven that I'm made miserable by being barred entry into. Reality is much more balanced that that, there are bound to be plenty of challenges and what-was-i-thinking moments that are a part of any scenario, however much wished for. It's good not to lose sight of that and to be contented with what we have...which is tremendous really...a happy home, a wonderful husband, AND an adorable child to love. Sometimes I'm so overcome by gratitude that I feel I couldn't ask for more, like I've received so much that it's time to focus on giving back now. That always keeps me in a good place.

Wishing you peace on your journey, whatever happens.

[happy2bamama]

Keeptryst - that felt like food for the soul right there. Thank you.

I had the same thing happen when trying with DS for 18 months. I got to that place of peace the longer it took. I thought I would feel worse and worse, but man, you just get "beat down" do many times and you have no choice but to let go. I feel like it was me finally resisting the control and being with whatever happened - really and truly. And that is why this time around I am confused as to how to approach it. I don't remember how I got there exactly last time (aside from that manic roller coaster you talked about) but I want to try to be there now without being ambivalent. Not sure how to go about it.

And you're right, focusing on what we do have is such a wonderful anchor. I have to say, having my DS to shower love on and to have fun with is such a wonderful distraction from TTC. Any time I feel that longing, I know I can snuggle him and feel good.

Thanks for helping me remember this :)

[monkeyscience]

Originally Posted by happy2bamama 
Another thing I realized is that I think I have been holding onto this fantasy of it happening fast and easy for us, without having to "force" it. I think I have been hoping that we'll do the bare minimum and get pregnant and then I can feel like it didn't have to be work this time or that we weren't really trying. But that's not our reality right now. Like my DH lovingly said, "That's not who we are. It takes us a little time to get pregnant."

Yeah, I had to let go of that fantasy, too. I'm glad you were able to have such a good talk with your dh and get on the same page as him. I think having your dh right with you makes TTC so much easier (emotionally - obviously, it's physically very necessary!).

As far as your OPK question - well, they work well for some people and not for others. The only way to really know is to try. However, if you already use CM/CP to determine when you O, and that's reflected in charting, I don't know that you have a lot to gain from OPKs. As for PreSeed, if you're getting plenty of the right kind of CM, I doubt it will change much, though it could. I never got EWCM, which is why I was using PreSeed. And because of my lack of CM and my difficulty predicting O using signs from my body, I used OPKs. So in my case, I was addressing specific issues with those interventions. OTOH, I believe there is a mama in another thread I'm on that had clockwork cycles and plenty of CM, but finally got pregnant after 2 or 3 years of trying when she used PreSeed and put in an Instead cup after DTD to hold the sperm in place.

As far as male supplements, I've seen CoQ-10 (I think that's it?) mentioned in several places, along with something I think is called Fertilaid for men. If you want, I'll try to get the people who told me about it over here to say more.