avoiding nonorganic but still being polit

[Frostalina]

Hello,

I just read "to buy or not to buy organic"

http://www.amazon.com/Buy-Not-Organic-Healthiest-Earth-Friendly/dp/1569242682/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327758609&sr=8-1

and michael pollan's omnivore's dilemma and in defense of food, and wildly affordable organic (which tells you how to afford organic on less than what you'd spend with food stamps--so people can't say they can't afford it):

http://www.amazon.com/Wildly-Affordable-Organic-Fabulous-Planet--All/dp/073821468X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327758681&sr=1-1

so i am now aware of how important it is to avoid a lot of the conventionally produced food, especially with having a 6 month old.

but i'm concerned about social events that involve food--potlucks, going out to eat, people having us over for dinner, visiting relatives who haven't read these books... i guess sometimes my baby is going to end up eating some of the dirty dozen

http://www.thedailygreen.com/healthy-eating/eat-safe/dirty-dozen-foods#fbIndex1

just because it'd be rude to not have her eat what our hosts serve her. hopefully this doesn't harm her...

how have others dealt with this?

[Youngfrankenstein]

Frankly, I'd never ask at a gathering whether the food is organic.  It isn't your call.  There is so much wonderful food out there, you'd hate to limit yourself to only organics.  Our CSA does all of their stuff organically, but it's not "certified" but I think it's as close to home grown as possible.

I just can't imagine how rude it would be to ask someone whether their food was organic.

I think you're better off avoiding junk foods when out.  Don't drink the fruit punch, don't give the baby cake, etc. 

I think Michael Pollen is trying to get people to focus on eating foods.  I think you can do that while being at a party.  Don't overwhelm yourself.  We're talking about a lifetime of eating habits to consider, not just a few meals.

I think you can be in control of your food and obviously your baby's when the time comes so don't sweat the small stuff.

[kitchensqueen]

Yeah, you can definitely control what you're eating at home and in which restaurants you patronize. But visiting friends and family? I really wouldn't stress about occasional non-organic foods. There are worse things - avoid the soda, the junk food - but other than that, don't stress. 

[Katc8910]

We eat only organic and/or no-spray (not certified). This is something we feel very strongly about. My husband and I will sometimes eat non-organic when we go out, but our 2 year old only gets organic. I think it's especially important when she is so young and her system is developing to keep the toxic stuff away. I know I won't be able to control what she eats forever, but I can now and I feel that it's my responsibility as her parent to put her health first. If others don't like that that's their problem, not mine. Out family and friends know this about us and it's never an issue.

That said, my DD and I have some food sensitivities and  everyone knows about it.  I always bring food for her when we go somewhere including family and friends' homes. It's just easier than worrying about what she can and cannot eat.   No one is offended by it. 

[serenbat]

I just can't imagine how rude it would be to ask someone whether their food was organic.

I totally disagree here!

WOW! I would ask, same way I would ask if the dish had a certain ingredient in it---it's the same to us. Many people must avoid certain ingredients - same with non-organic for us!

Most people DO know about organics and if you happen to run into one that doesn't - there is your chance to enlighten them.

 I think it's especially important when she is so young and her system is developing to keep the toxic stuff away.

YEA!!! people DO get it and when you explain the reason you are asking others do take notice

we bring 99% of our DS's food at all time with us

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I totally disagree here!

Most people DO know about organics and if you happen to run into one that doesn't - there is your chance to enlighten them.

I'm shocked....

I'm sure people love being "enlightened" by you educating them on the terrible food they're serving you at that very moment.

Some of us know a lot about organics and still don't pester the hosts of gatherings.

[CoBabyMaker]

I agree with Youngfrankenstein and kitchenqueen.    In general, I think it would be very rude to ask that if someone invited you over.  You can control what you buy but unless you have an allergy I think it's really rude to expect that of others.  If you feel the need to share the information you should invite others to your house.

[serenbat]

poisons are just that- poisons

some people understand that one seed can cause harm or a skin of an apple,etc  - same goes with pesticides (they do cause harm)

we avoid soy, we would not think to NOT ask about that- regardless if it organic or not- just like alcohol or caffeine - we don't want our child eating those things---we would not be responsible parents if we just let anything be placed in-front of our child by a host 

pesticides are right up their with soda for us-we happen to care what goes in our child's body and our too!

[kitchensqueen]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

pesticides are right up their with soda for us-we happen to care what goes in our child's body and our too!

So those of us that can't afford a 100% organic diet don't care about what we're feeding our children? 

[serenbat]

So those of us that can't afford a 100% organic diet don't care about what we're feeding our children? 

it is what it is

Originally Posted by serenbat 

pesticides are right up their with soda for us-we happen to care what goes in our child's body and our too!

 

this is OUR personal choice - what others do is up to them

people avoid dyes in food as well (not to mentions tons of other things!), no one seems to see that as taboo but yet can't view organics in the same context 

people make sacrifices to make food choices work, not just organics - - if you don't give it to your child- you don't give it 

[kitchensqueen]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

it is what it is

this is OUR personal choice - what others do is up to them

people avoid dyes in food as well (not to mentions tons of other things!), no one seems to see that as taboo but yet can't view organics in the same context 

people make sacrifices to make food choices work, not just organics - - if you don't give it to your child- you don't give it 

You're right, it is what it is. But you implying that parents who can't provide their kids with a 100% organic diet is judgmental and really comes across as high and mighty. I don't know about anyone else, but we live bare bones and there's nothing left in our budget to sacrifice (short of the roof over our heads) in order to be able to spend that kind of money on food. But we still eat healthy (organic when we can afford it) and I CERTAINLY care deeply about the well being of my child. 

[serenbat]

But you implying that parents who can't provide their kids with a 100% organic diet is judgmental and really comes across as high and mighty.

you happen to be the one that implied and put words in my mouth (that I DID NOT STATE!) - you come off as very offensive and rude- talk about high and mighty!

I stated US - not others

our choice is ours 

facts are facts - pesticides are what they are - fact not fiction - it is not a "judgement" when you state a fact

ETA - people make "life-style"(non-allergic) food related choices all the time (kosher, vegan, avoiding certain ingredients, etc) avoiding non-organics should - IMO be view in the same context - nothing to be afraid of or embarrassed of - but a choice that should be respected

if you can respect that a person does not want their child to eat a potato fried in pork fat (for ex.- for any number of reasons) why can't that person respect the organic choice that parent is making?

Edited by serenbat - 1/30/12 at 9:16am

[Imakcerka]

Serenbat... unless you're growing your own food you can't actually be sure it's 100% Organic.

OP, if you want to go 100% organic, be prepared to bring your own food.  Organic is expensive. 

[DoubleDouble]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Serenbat... unless you're growing your own food you can't actually be sure it's 100% Organic.

No kidding... I keep reading about false labels and organic food frauds.

[mountainfeather]

pesticides are right up their with soda for us-we happen to care what goes in our child's body and our too!

Hi - you know that organic produce is grown with pesticides too, right? It's just that the organic pesticides meet the criteria of the organic certifying organization. Organic pesticides are still poisons, that's how they work. Organic growing is not all fairy dust and auras. You have to make some serious trade-offs in order to grow organically. Some organic pesticides, like pyrethrin and rotenone, are serious neurotoxins. They degrade more quickly than a lot of synthetic pesticides, so they pose less risk to the consumer, but there is a higher risk than a lot of synthetics of acute toxicity to the pesticide applicator. They are also harsh on the environment.

Example - an organic apple orchard. Apples grown in an environment where there is a lot of disease pressure combined with insect pressure (i.e. North East US) require careful use of pesticides to grow a marketable crop. Organic options for disease control include copper, sulfur, lime sulfur etc. all or which are rather harsh., and organic insecticides are often very broad spectrum, killing beneficial insects and 'bad' insects alike. It is quite easy to create an ecological wasteland with organic sprays in an apple orchard. Using conventional sprays allows the grower to target only certain insects, and use fungicides that aren't as harsh and likely to kill beneficial insects as organic sprays are.

So what I'm trying to say is there is no black and white, organics are the bestest and conventional is evil scenario in the real world. There are better farming practices and there are worse farming practices.

facts are facts - pesticides are what they are - fact not fiction - it is not a "judgement" when you state a fact

What are they, to you? Fact - growing food (food people want to eat anyways) without some form of pesticides is just not possible in most circumstances. Some crops require more, some less. You have a choice between organic and conventional pesticides. Each individual pesticide, conventional or organic, has negative side effects.

For me the ideal choice (besides growing your own food if you can) is to know your farmer. Knowing your farmer and what practices are used on the farm is one way to feel confident that you are eating food that is well grown. I also would choose US grown food (I'm from the US) over food imported from other countries. A lot of organics in the stores are imported. We have strict rules regulating pesticide use in the US that don't exist in some countries.

What really bothers me is a sky-is-falling, conventional produce=soda pop mentality that doesn't consider the subtler realities of food production.

[serenbat]

you can eat organic foods that are grown without pesticides - you need to know where they are grown - it is possible! 

many people do not live on corporate grown organic foods alone

[DoubleDouble]

Just for the sake of example: if one lives in the snowy wilderness of, say, Canada and cannot grow pineapples, pomegranates, grapes, star fruit, lemons, grapefruits, oranges (add another 50 names to this list) - how does one make sure that such fruit is organic?

Also, just as the above poster mentioned, often Organic = Pesticides.

Originally Posted by mountainfeather 

Hi - you know that organic produce is grown with pesticides too, right? It's just that the organic pesticides meet the criteria of the organic certifying organization. Organic pesticides are still poisons, that's how they work. Organic growing is not all fairy dust and auras. You have to make some serious trade-offs in order to grow organically. Some organic pesticides, like pyrethrin and rotenone, are serious neurotoxins. They degrade more quickly than a lot of synthetic pesticides, so they pose less risk to the consumer, but there is a higher risk than a lot of synthetics of acute toxicity to the pesticide applicator. They are also harsh on the environment.

Example - an organic apple orchard. Apples grown in an environment where there is a lot of disease pressure combined with insect pressure (i.e. North East US) require careful use of pesticides to grow a marketable crop. Organic options for disease control include copper, sulfur, lime sulfur etc. all or which are rather harsh., and organic insecticides are often very broad spectrum, killing beneficial insects and 'bad' insects alike. It is quite easy to create an ecological wasteland with organic sprays in an apple orchard. Using conventional sprays allows the grower to target only certain insects, and use fungicides that aren't as harsh and likely to kill beneficial insects as organic sprays are.

Some of my family used to have small orchards, and they avoided pesticides - you would not believe how many apples had a worm in them. Since they did not sell the fruit, the solution was to pick "non-protein" apples for eating. As for the rest, some would be used in jams, with the worm parts removed, and many leftover apples were composted. I don't know if a commercial farm can afford such luxuries.

Edited by DoubleDouble - 1/30/12 at 12:29pm

[CorriJ]

I can't think of a polite way to ask a family member or friend to serve organic food. If I invited someone over for dinner and they accepted but only if I served them organic I would be rather offended. In my opinion it would be the same as if they asked me to cook something totally different then what was planned for dinner. 

If it's a potluck you could bring your own dish and only eat from that? If your child is young you might be able to just bring snacks and let them munch on those and then give them a full meal when you get home? Or just have more gatherings at your house where you can supervise the food?

Those are the only things I can think of off the top of my head.

[mountainfeather]

I don't know if a commercial farm can afford such luxuries.

No. Because even if the consumer would accept the horror of the occasional worm they wouldn't store. Apples with holes would rot in storage. So the time they got to the grocery store they would be a holey wormy mush. EEk.

you can eat organic foods that are grown without pesticides - you need to know where they are grown - it is possible!

Yes, we eat some right at my house. I grow them myself. Not everything I grow is pesticide free, but I only use pesticides when absolutely necessary and some of my crops don't need them.

But you can find enough organic foods grown without pesticides to keep your family food without starving? Where do you find such bounty?

[serenbat]

Just for the sake of example: if one lives in the snowy wilderness of, say, Canada and cannot grow pineapples, pomegranates, grapes, star fruit, lemons, grapefruits, oranges (add another 50 names to this list) - how does one make sure that such fruit is organic?

you do without or eat locally (people did survive prior to a imported pineapples in Canada) - also not everything that is commercially grown is grown with pesticides

you also need to look into the standards and how things have to labeled for organics, not to mention other trade and growing practices 

I can't think of a polite way to ask a family member or friend to serve organic food.

If you were keeping kosher or chose to avoid a food for another reason would you not speak up?

"we are keeping strictly organic, we hope you understand" - "we keep kosher, we hope you understand" - it's about respect-IMO

I know people that refuse food that is not local, I know those who's diet is strictly regional, kosher, dye free, non-mercury, medically restricted and that does not mean allergic reasons, etc, people do understand, like I said, you may need to explain a bit