would you let a 9 year old alone at the library? - Page 3

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

TiredX2 - I don't think it is inconsistent.  

Being shocked that a library allows unattended 9 year olds is different than thinking your 9 year would be Ok going solo.

Yes, I guess that is true.  I was just looking at the OP:

 i did not realise a librarian would allow a 9 year old to attend a book club by herself. i always associate alone with 12 year old.

i am not objecting. i am just fine with it.

how would you feel if they said a 9 year old could stay in the library alone? irrespective of whether your child is ready or not.

I guess i am just stuck in my assumption that the progression would be:

1) Child is only "okay" with parents

2) Child is "okay" with other adults

3) Child is "okay" alone/responsible for self

I'm surprised that someone would be okay with #3 and be suprised at the concept of #2 happening for the same aged child.  Perhaps I'm just too wrapped up in the "schooled" mindset of thinking that if you are willing to leave your child 6-7 hours a day with an adult, why wouldn't you leave that same aged child for an hour with an adult for a class (or book club).  Because most children do go to school, I think it would be a fairly normal/obvious thing to be "okay" with for an older than school aged child.

Still can't get my mind around leaving an under 9 year old for hours home alone but being shocked at having a child that age in a class without a parent.  (If I could find the shrug smilie, I would put it here--- I'm obviously just missing something/ not getting something/ way off on my thinking, lol)

[CherryBombMama]

Originally Posted by TiredX2 

Still can't get my mind around leaving an under 9 year old for hours home alone but being shocked at having a child that age in a class without a parent.  (If I could find the shrug smilie, I would put it here--- I'm obviously just missing something/ not getting something/ way off on my thinking, lol)

I think it is the idea that not all 9 year olds are mature enough to be left alone, at home or in a public place.  The OPs daughter is mature enough to be left alone at home and to be left alone in a library.  I think the OP is shocked that the library is okay with ALL 9 year olds, mature or not, to be left alone at the library.  At age 9, I had never crossed the street by myself, let alone stayed in a public building.  I would have been one of those kids crying in the corner. Haha. 

At least, I hope I am not speaking wrongly on the OPs behalf 

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by AllisonR 

.

Yes, I would let my 9 yo be in the library by himself - with or without a reading group. And no, I would not consider it daycare, because a 9 yo would not be running around a library, disturbing others or making a mess. My 7yo wouldn't, so why would a 9 yo?

I leave my 5yo off at gymnastics and come back 45 minutes later. That is with a teacher. I wouldn't leave my 5 yo in a gym without any adult or teacher though. Nor would I leave my 9 yo or even 16 year old. I just don't think it would be safe having someone jumping on beams and bars without a spotter. But a library? Makes me want to chuckle. What could happen? Flying books or what?

Ha Ha!  Yes, it is to laugh.   Books take flight when less mature, impulse driven kids throw them around.  Seven through nine years old is...first through third grade?  From my experience just volunteering in my kids' classes, what with herd mentality, I wouldn't leave many of those kids alone together in the library, without a structured program led by an adult. Sure, some of them could hang out just reading or chatting in the kids' section, and clearly you know your kids so you are comfortable leaving your seven year old at the library.  But I don't think anyone can guarantee that any theoretical seven year old can behave all the time, and it certainly isn't fair to the librarians to expect them to discipline misbehaving kids, nor would some parents appreciate another adult disciplining their child.  So a parent shouldn't just consider their own kid's safety, but also the needs of the library. 

Gymnastics seems a lot more structured than a book club.  I can't imagine in a hundred years that a gym anywhere in North America would be open for business without a qualified, first aid-trained adult, not only on site, but directly involved. So maybe that isn't the best example? Quite possible I'm being too literal.

That said, would I leave my nine year old at a book club meeting at the library?  Yes, absolutely.  The meeting is led by an adult, maybe a teen.

Would I leave my nine year old alone at the library to read and hang out?  Most likely not.  Or maybe for a short time, like a half-hour.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by CherryBombMama 

I think it is the idea that not all 9 year olds are mature enough to be left alone, at home or in a public place.  The OPs daughter is mature enough to be left alone at home and to be left alone in a library.  I think the OP is shocked that the library is okay with ALL 9 year olds, mature or not, to be left alone at the library.  At age 9, I had never crossed the street by myself, let alone stayed in a public building.  I would have been one of those kids crying in the corner. Haha. 

At least, I hope I am not speaking wrongly on the OPs behalf 

Oh, I didn't read that the librarian was saying to just leave the kid there, whenever, but that the child could go to the (adult led) book club.  I saw it more like a class.
 

[velochic]

I work in a public library, so this is very interesting to me.  FTR, my library doesn't have a formal policy on latch-key kids.  I think the librarian did what she was supposed to for your dd, meemee.  She made sure she knew how to contact you and your daughter was going to be in a structured class.  I am positive that she assumed you would be there when the event was over and that your daughter wouldn't just be released to wander on her own or that any other child would not have someone there to pick them up.  I would hope that no matter what any posted sign says, if a parent knows their child, they'll know whether or not doing something like this is appropriate for their child's level of maturity... whether they are 3 or 9 or 16.  I'd hope that if the library offered something like this to a person who knows their child isn't ready for it, that the parent wouldn't do it just because the library said it was O.K.  Ultimately, it's the parents' decision.

I admit that I'm a little shocked that you're shocked because you seem to be such an advocate for early independence, in general.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by velochic 

I admit that I'm a little shocked that you're shocked because you seem to be such an advocate for early independence, in general.

i know. a lot of 'shock' going on in these threads.

see i am an advocate for early independence when appropriate. if the child is ready and asking for it - yeah give it to them.

i am shocked that whereas in all other public places i CANT leave my child alone. yet there i can. i expected them to be stricter like all other places.

however i went and researched this a bit more. and its sad. there is a difference of how they treat the book club and the manga club. that is why they dont have a junior manga club. they have a teen one. book clubs have a few faithful followers. manga club is packed with a bunch of non regular children which is hard to manage. which i find sad. not too many reading books.

and yeah you are right velochic - its the library and its patrons. i dont see any kids running around or misbehaving. they are trying to encourage more kids to read. while this branch is huge its got its own core members who do things. so not too many outsiders in the activities. the previous library i was at is a whole different story. this library also has way more activities than the previous library i was at.

my dd is a whole another thing. i just introduced her stuff because i wanted to show that i dont object to it because i have left her alone myself.

i guess they assume if the child can read such a fat book (320 pages) and talk about it, they must be well behaved.

[NYCVeg]

I live in a big city and I leave my dd (5) at classes all the time. And this is a reading group supervised by a librarian? I can't even imagine why it would be strange to leave a 9 year old in that situation. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg 

I live in a big city and I leave my dd (5) at classes all the time. And this is a reading group supervised by a librarian? I can't even imagine why it would be strange to leave a 9 year old in that situation. 
 

at other libraries i have to drop dd to the event and pick her up. i dont have to do that for this event. they dont expect me to hang around the library. the librarian also knows we live a couple of blocks away and is ok with dd walking in and walking out by herself.

i havent had a chance to ask her if she will allow dd to roam the library alone. i know dd wants to volunteer there.

 

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by meemee 

nope. i am shocked that the library will allow a 9 year old to be in the library alone. i personally have no problems with that. dd will do fine. she can even walk over there by herself. 

i am shocked that a library will allow a 9 year old there without the parent in the building. even for a class. 
 

meemee, this makes no sense. You are totally ok with letting your 9 yo walk to the library, and be there by herself. But, you are totally shocked that the library allows this? Sounds like you are saying it is OK for your DD, but shocking for other 9 yo. I hope I am misreading this. 

[QHAmom]

My library has a sign inside the lobby, by the doors into the library that says children under 7 must be accompanied by an adult.  The meeting rooms that groups use are on the other side of the lobby so I have let my kids who are over 7 go in by themselves while I'm in a LLL meeting, but I've never had any reason to leave the building while they're in there. 

[velochic]

Originally Posted by meemee 

the librarian at our local public library said dd could join the tween reading club. dd is a v. responsible 9 whom the librarian has not met yet.

Originally Posted by meemee 

at other libraries i have to drop dd to the event and pick her up. i dont have to do that for this event. they dont expect me to hang around the library. the librarian also knows we live a couple of blocks away and is ok with dd walking in and walking out by herself.

So at first, you say they don't know your dd, but then you say they know where she lives and is OK with her walking there and being there without supervision.  I think it's these types of contradicting statements that have me, and perhaps others so confused by what you're talking about.  You let your child stay home alone (and have done so for years before I would even consider it for my own dd, who is the same age), yet you are shocked that they would allow her to be alone with adult supervision in a public area?  That just seems so odd to me, so I'm still not understanding.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by velochic 

So at first, you say they don't know your dd, but then you say they know where she lives and is OK with her walking there and being there without supervision.  I think it's these types of contradicting statements that have me, and perhaps others so confused by what you're talking about.  You let your child stay home alone (and have done so for years before I would even consider it for my own dd, who is the same age), yet you are shocked that they would allow her to be alone with adult supervision in a public area?  That just seems so odd to me, so I'm still not understanding.

we are new there and they know where she lives because i had to update my address. 

Originally Posted by AllisonR 

 Sounds like you are saying it is OK for your DD, but shocking for other 9 yo. I hope I am misreading this. 

i am shocked that in a city that has posted signs in a lot of public places that kids under 12 years old have to be supervised there is one place that IS allowing it. shocked in the sense of surprised. i thought i would have to at least stay in the building which is not the case. and therefore i was curious if this was the norm elsewhere or not. and would you be ok with this.
 

[Mom31]

This just made me think- one day this fall my son was playing at a friend of mines house in the yard while I was inside...  He ran off with another kid- saying that teenagers were chasing him- they ran the two blocks to the library- and were in there awhile he says- I ended up having to cal the police because I could not find him anywhere!!  He was picked up about a block from her house- he had a toy gun and was barefoot.

UGH. Of course he ran into people we used to go to church with there.... anyhow- off topic but library and 8 yo ...

To answer the question- I would let ds go alone Drop him off pick him up- I would not with dd- even at nine- she just is not cautious about anything.... maybe my feelings will change but at 6 she is very irresponsible.

[Cyllya]

I think it'd be messed up for a library to have a "no unattended 9-year-olds allowed" policy. Certainly, if the kid is causing trouble, they should call the parent to come get him (or call the police if the parent is unavailable or just can't be bothered), but that should apply to any age.

[ollyoxenfree]

I haven't read every response, but a 3-page thread probably covers the spectrum. 

When my kids were about that age (9 y.o.), we lived 2 short residential blocks from the public library. It never occurred to me that they shouldn't go there on their own. Since they took the school bus to school, it was one small way to encourage some independence. 

This thread reminds me of an incident. I recall going to the library for storytime with a neighbour and her son when my ds was 3 y.o. Her son was about the same age. We had recently moved into the area and I didn't know her well. She was a family doctor and we met at the local park and she seemed nice. It was our first time attending storytime, although I had been to the library with my kids fairly often so they were familiar with the place. For storytime, parents weren't invited in to listen with the children, although they remained in the library. My neighbour was furious at being excluded but didn't object and let her son listen alone. She was so angry she wouldn't speak, not even to me, and when we returned home, she kind of dumped us out of her car in a hurry and drove off in huff. She had this weird, deep, quiet rage that was really disturbing because it was so out of proportion to the event, particularly since I wasn't responsible for the exclusion. Anyway, we didn't speak much after that. (Before this incident, she also remarked how her ds would like a sister and kept "suggesting" that I should leave my newborn dd with her, repeatedly in a kind of insistent way that was also disturbing......) 

[AuntRayRay]

I would say a responsible 9 year old that wanted to be, yes it would be ok with me, now the authorities...another story. I grew up in NJ and 12 was the earliest that they were "allowed" to be alone. I have dealt with the state and would surely not risk it as authorities can blow up harmless situations. So i would say it would depend on the law in my state.

[amiemarie7]

if this was a "class setting" where i walk her to the door, and then am waiting for her when they come out, i see no problem with it.  i think most of the posters are visualizing that situation, similar to a dance class. 

libraries in general wont notice if a child is really there by themselves anyway, unless the child is causing a problem.  a parent could always be a few aisles away.  i imagine all the signs really are reminders so parents dont use places as daycares.  some parents feel that if they drop their child off at a place with any other adults, that those adults in some way should be expected to watch their child.  like lets say, you drop off your 9 year old at the front door, they walk in, then walk out after you drive away.  some parents would try to say the librarians should have been supervising them and not let it happen.  the signs are often a good way to remove liability.

we live in an area that is not city, but its well populated suburban homes.  we could allow our children at 2nd grade to walk over a mile to school.  no one does though.  i think at 9, a child should only be left in a supervised setting such as a structured class, where a parent will be there promptly at the end of class.  my husband is a police officer.  we often see known sex offenders at barnes and noble and toys r us.  unless they are specifically forbid by terms of their release, they are still allowed, or will just go anyway to many child friendly places.  no one knows or is checking who is a sex offender when they walk through the door.  no matter how often we talk to our children, ior how mature and well behaved they are, we cannot truley prepare them enough for a skilled manipulator who looks safe as can be.  or even a teenager who may be seen as another kid.  it would be wrong of us to say "she wont go with anyone" or "she would know.."  these are kids, we cannot expect them to know what to do in every situation.  it is our duty to avoid situations which might be a danger.  i think often residents dont realize safe, smaller towns have many offenders, either residing there or just visiting.  and again, we live in a pretty safe area.  and things are much different than they used to be, so we cannot compare what we did as kids.

and not meant to offend, but one could easily see "early independance" as indifference or neglect

[crunchy_mommy]

meemee are you worried about someone reporting you child abandonment? is that why you feel comfortable leaving her home alone but question leaving her in public, even with a librarian/teacher?

[Imakcerka]

Eh... what about leaving a kid in Target?  I almost did two days ago when one had the case of the whines.  I literally about faced and ran for the door.  Damn kids followed me.  Too bad DD1 always remembers where I park too! 

[TerrahMother]

Originally Posted by TiredX2 

This is my opinion, for my family, but I just don't consider most 9 year olds responsible enough to be responsible for themselves.  As in, they could not take care of themselves in an emergency.  Because of that, I wouldn't leave them in a situation where they would need to.  If I knew someone at the library, I would be fine leaving a 9 year old there (with the understanding with the other adult that the child could come to them for help).  I just don't think it's generally okay to expect the librarian to do that. I figure that the recommendation (around here at least) for being left alone is 11 years old.
 

Originally Posted by Youngfrankenstein 

I agree with this.  We have been involved with two libraries.  One is serving a larger community and has many classes a large user-base and I would not feel comfortable leaving a 9 year old there alone.  It's not that I'm worried about safety as much as how responsible he/she'd be with limited supervision.  A teacher or librarian is not a babysitter.

The current library we go to is a community place where they know you and your whole family and if you call to renew your books, they know who you are by your voice.  I would leave my child there because I know my child and we would have a lot of communication to see if it was working out.
 

Originally Posted by CherryBombMama 

I live in CA.  I could see leaving my future 9 yr old in a class in a library while I wandered the library, but I don't think I would feel comfortable with leaving the premises while a 9 yr old was allowed to wander the entire library.  I have worked in a library, and I have seen many strange people that I would not feel comfortable being around my boys without myself present.  I have also had a man come up to me when I was working, about age 17-18, with a entourage of men standing behind him, tell me that if I was to "come with him" he would "take care of me" and  "give me everything I wanted." I was scared speechless but thankfully some male coworkers chased them out of there. 

In California, where I live, I would not leave a 9 year old alone in a place where no one is really looking out for them.  

Originally Posted by CherryBombMama 

I think it is the idea that not all 9 year olds are mature enough to be left alone, at home or in a public place.  The OPs daughter is mature enough to be left alone at home and to be left alone in a library.  I think the OP is shocked that the library is okay with ALL 9 year olds, mature or not, to be left alone at the library.  At age 9, I had never crossed the street by myself, let alone stayed in a public building.  I would have been one of those kids crying in the corner. Haha. 

At least, I hope I am not speaking wrongly on the OPs behalf 

The above quotes collectively express my sentiments on the issue.

I would look at the individual person and determine whether it would be good for both of us if he/she were left to be at the library, or any other place.

That said, I deliberately did not use the word "alone" because I would still be, at least, a wallflower, just to provide any backup should the need arise.

There are inappropriate characters that visit public places, both young and old alike. Keeping my offspring in my radar is in the best interest of everyone. And I do mean everyone (including any bully, riffraff, or overbearing bigger person that would feel my wrath).