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Charting to Avoid/Fertility Awareness February - Page 4

post #61 of 71

i have used lam after 2 babies. both times i had bleeding on and off until 8 weeks pp. after that i was dry as a bone until 21 mo pp. then i started cycling again. almost right back to clockwork even. 

post #62 of 71

I don't think it's bleeding. I haven't been wearing pads and I wear dark underwear, so I couldn't be sure that I'm not spotting, but I don't notice anything when I go to the bathroom. It's just a general feeling of wetness. Reminds me of when I was going to ovulate, but I'm not noticing any CM like I would when I ovulated. Does that make sense? Maybe I should check CP?

post #63 of 71


Edited by birdie.lee - 5/9/13 at 8:04am
post #64 of 71

I wouldn't worry about it at this point.  I have never seen any research on what a postpartum cervix does... well... besides change shape and not seem as closed, but I haven't seen anything on the progression to your new normal, and it very well may be still pretty open at this point.


On top of that, you'll likely experience at least as obvious fertility signs when your fertility is returning while breastfeeding as you experienced before you got pregnant when you were cycling normally, and likely, they'll be a lot more obvious and last quite a while (CCL notes that it's common to have fertile CM for 2 months before ovulating the first time postpartum) before you actually did ovulate.


Finally, even if you did manage to ovulate right now, the chances of having a fertile cycle this early (given LAM and EcoBF) are close to nil.

post #65 of 71

Great post JMJ, thank you

Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

Infojunkie, that does sound like a limitation to the CM-only Marquette Method.  I'm not as familiar with the TCOYF descriptions, and I think they aren't always specific enough.  The way they use the "creamy" designation, though, I would probably normally consider "tacky" with a very, very slight amount of stretch to be "creamy" under the TCOYF rules.  The reason is that it is used as a sometimes "more-fertile," sometimes "less fertile" CM.


In general, within a cycle, a woman's CM will go from less-fertile (Low, dry, sticky, creamy) to more-fertile (High, creamy, tacky) to peak (Peak, EWCM, clear, stretchy), and then the process reverses, usually very quickly, or even just jumps to return to low fertility.  In the MM, using the CBFM in a normal cycle, the progression from Low to High to Peak and back to Low (often with a day of High in between) is pretty much what happens, with very impressive accuracy.  Creighton uses a mucus cycle score, and a very good mucus cycle score (which indicates a high probability of conception, given intercourse during the fertile period, would have a CM progression that follows MM's Low, High, Peak, (High), Low pattern as they describe it.


However, if you talk to any Creighton instructor or look at anybody's CM charts, you'll realize that there is a lot more variability than that.  Most people don't get a perfect mucus cycle score every time.  Some people never see peak CM, so their "peak" is classified as "High" by MM (situation A).  Some people hang out in the "High"-"Peak" range, perhaps even with a few days of "less-fertile" CM (I hope my mixing of different group's terms is making sense.  Let me know if it's not, and I'll clarify.") thrown in before they ovulate and return to "Low" fertility (situation B).  Some people experience CM that reaches a Peak and then reduces but does not return to "Low" fertility as well as we might like (situation C).  In short, infojunkie, you experienced situation B (almost situation A), and MM assumed that you were experiencing situation C, and the CM-only rules of the MM are ill-equipped to deal with that.


The MM using the CBFM, the STM, or Creighton(/Billings) would all be much better equipped to differentiate between those situations.  The CBFM would likely have detected ovulation accurately, as would your temperature in the STM, and in those cases, you would have assumed (did assume, since you were also charting using the STM) that you were potentially fertile until you were able to confirm ovulation with the CBFM or temperature rise.  With Creighton, you would get to know your own pattern and be very cautious about any CM, especially if it could be classified as "more-fertile" (has any stretch, cloudy, clear, etc), and even when less-fertile CM is determined to be "probably not fertile," it is designated on your chart with a yellow sticker to indicate that conception could still be possible, though usually, this is done in a way that would give you enough other potentially fertile days to prevent unplanned pregnancies.  It's determined subjectively on an individual basis rather than Marquette's CM-only attempt to fit every woman's cycle into objective standards.


Sorry for such a long response.  The short response is that I'm still a fan of Marquette's use of the CBFM (and using it with the CM rules in order to better establish the beginning of the fertile window, kinda like using it in place of a thermometer in the STM), but if you're interested in using CM-only, I would recommend looking into Creighton or Billings.


post #66 of 71
Thread Starter 

New thread will be up by tomorrow morning, currently up to my eyeballs in homework.

post #67 of 71

please make sure i'm on the list!  


haven't posted much this month as i'm pretty gripey and didn't want to be a drag.


but might need some support now.


i'm in cycle 2 charting creighton, and had only 3 dry days.  not even truly dry days.  day 25 of my cycle and that's it.  needless to say, it's not working out so well for us, except for the blessing that 2 weeks ago he was sick for a while, and this week i've been sick.  but this is really a frustrating and not encouraging path for us to be on.


have to say though, the longer i practice abstinence, the more kids i want.  i've already thought 3 more (I have 4) wouldn't be so bad, and maybe even a dozen if we just keep going until i stop cycling.  which is a little worrisome.  maybe.  i think my body's valiant attempts at conceiving are rather sympathy worthy.  


so, illness and abstinence are making me rather mental on the baby front.  

post #68 of 71
JMJ, thanks for the reassurance. The only thing that makes me paranoid is that I don't nap every day (I'd say 3-4 times a week) because of naptimes not matching up between kids, me not being able to nap, etc. I do lay in bed for 30 minutes almost every day, even if I don't nap though. Also, DD2 is already sleeping relatively long stretches at night (3-4 hours, twice a night) so it makes me wonder if she's nursing enough at night. She does co-sleep though and so I'm not 100% sure how long she stays latched on when she does wake back up.

I decided to check my CP out of curiosity. It's certainly not closed, but it's low and hard. That's reassuring to me.
post #69 of 71
Cassiani~ Are you working closely with a teacher for your Creighton Model?
post #70 of 71

Cassiani, sorry to hear things are so tough right now.  Hopefully, things will get easier soon and you'll be able to count more of those not quite dry days as infertile.  You're not the only one to have abstinence make you feel more willing to have more kids.  Using abstinence as your birth control really does cause you to question whether or not you really have a good reason to not get pregnant.  Keep us posted on how things go.


Lactatinggirl, if you're lying down to rest every day and actually napping half the time, it sounds like you're doing pretty well.  I'd guess that your DD2 is nursing for a good while while you are sleeping, and even if you are concerned about the standards of Ecological Breastfeeding, you so clearly qualify for LAM.  Besides, you'll have real CM before you do actually ovulate.  With breastfeeding as much as you are, you'll get better warning signs than that.  You have experience in what to look for, and you'll see it when it comes.

post #71 of 71
Thread Starter 

New thread is up. Sorry for the delay.

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