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February 2012 Whatever Ladies and Babies - Page 20

post #381 of 407

Yeah, She was so loud I was embarassed, thinking the nurses were going to come in and think we were horrific parents because we couldn't even keep our newborn quiet. lol. She was born at 3:22pm, was quiet for... I think about 2 hours while she nursed and kind of woke up, and then was fussy from that point on, and between then and the next evening, I only got about 3 hours sleep. She would -not- be put down, right from the start, and also did not want to be unlatched at all. I felt like such a failure. Now I know it's just -her-, but I was so bewildered that first little bit, and couldn't understand it. 

 

To my knowledge there is no real need for them to be on cows milk. I don't remember how old she is, just coming up on a year right? I would probably keep on full formula until a year, and then yeah, start weaning down to another milk. I liked rice milk! lol Only because to me it had the least aftertaste. Never tasted coconut milk though. To me, almond milk tasted like almond flavored soy. 

 

I'm jealous about the gathering too! You and I can keep the group alive that weekend. lol. 

 

I don't care if my children like Disney, as long as it's not "Disney or nothing". My nieces are like that. Stuff can't be just generic princess stuff-- it HAS to be a disney princess or it's not good enough. I want my children to have the imagination to play dressup with found stuff and make up stories, etc, you know? That's my only beef with it. I love Disney, the movies, the songs, etc... I hate the market that says disney or bust. It's funny because we just had a huge discussion about this in my attachment group (which includes several lesbians and a gay transgender man), and some of the discussion was quite heated! lol

post #382 of 407
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie2186 View Post

I don't really get the crunchy momma stance that is *anti-disney* on principle. I'm sure they have some reason for it, but I don't know what!

I think it's more of a feminist mama thing than a crunchy mama thing, although maybe crunchy mamas tend to be more feminist. Fairy tales tend to depict females as weak and needing to be save and then taken care of by males, first Daddy then brother then husband/prince charming. Many women today don't want their girls growing up with that idea of themselves. They want their girls to be strong and independent and self-sufficient, not always waiting for prince charming to come and save them. Plus, princesses tend to be valued for their physical beauty (which, as portrayed, is completely unobtainable) and niceness rather than their intelligence and ability. If I had girls, I wouldn't want them growing thinking that their only value came from their beauty and ability to please a man. I don't want my boys to grow up thinking that's the purpose of females, either. That's why I'm not a fan of Disney.

But, on the flip side, it's completely natural, and maybe biologically advantageous, for females to be princesses and males to be princes.

Since you can't make it on this trip, maybe next time we can plan something west that you can attend.
post #383 of 407
Thread Starter 
I don't think that children (humans) ever need cow's milk. However, I do think it's important for children to have milk for several years. What to do if your baby/child won't nurse that long? I really don't know. A mammalian milk mimics human milk closer than a grain milk. I think I'd probably go with organic cow's milk over soy or rice or almond milk. Those aren't natural. Grains and nuts don't make milk. Coconut milk might be an option because it's natural except that it doesn't contain the same nutrients as mammalian milk.

Ryan weaned at 13 months and I gave him cow's milk. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now and maybe cow's milk wasn't the same 19-20 years ago as it is now, either.
post #384 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

I don't think that children (humans) ever need cow's milk. However, I do think it's important for children to have milk for several years. What to do if your baby/child won't nurse that long? I really don't know. A mammalian milk mimics human milk closer than a grain milk. I think I'd probably go with organic cow's milk over soy or rice or almond milk. Those aren't natural. Grains and nuts don't make milk. Coconut milk might be an option because it's natural except that it doesn't contain the same nutrients as mammalian milk.
Ryan weaned at 13 months and I gave him cow's milk. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now and maybe cow's milk wasn't the same 19-20 years ago as it is now, either.


yeahthat.gif There's a chart on kellymom about the carb/fat content of various milks. I think if you aren't going to do the toddler formula, I would do organic whole cow's milk.

post #385 of 407

Here's the link to the chart I was talking about. http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/milkcalories.html

post #386 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

Girls are girls and boys are boys and some are not. I spent so much time and energy trying to thwart Ryan's natural boyish traits, all to no avail. He still loved wrestling and guns and farts and other boy stuff. It finally dawned on me that that's just how he is and I was doing him harm by implying that all of those things that he liked were wrong. People are going to like what they like no matter what the rest of us do.


Seriously!!

I so agree.  This past christmas, one of my really crunchy mama friends posted she was in a quandary b/c her 3 year old girl wanted play make up, and what should she do??  She didn't want to "do" the whole gender specific stuff.  I was really put off by it, b/c so many of her/our friends were like, oh no, don't get it for her.  Why not?  Girls like to dress up and play like that.  I do agree that forcing the girl stuff out is the same as saying it's bad.  Forcing boys to act demure, or forcing girls to act not, is setting everyone up for disappointment.

 

I have a confession.  When I think of Nora getting married and dancing with Chris with the father/daughter dance, I get so teary but it's happy tears.  I want her to find happiness, and get married and become a mom.  (if she so chooses, of course).  But when I think about Finn -- I immediately shut down and think no woman is good enough for my boy.  I know where it comes from and I know it's silly.  But I still feel this tug towards holding on to him!

 

Ooh so much to catch up on.  I left this window open last night and now this morning theres so many more posts!!

 

JJ - I'm with you.  DD loves dress up, period.  She has a ballerina tutu, regular princess dresses, and the disney themed ones.  She's got high heels!  She loves those darn plastic high heels.  lol.gif

 

I read this awesome blog post, wish I could remember where, about how the cartoon animated princesses/characters don't cause the same sort of self doubt and comparisons, and low self esteem that comparing oneself to live actresses do.  Even as children we can tell fantasy from reality.  That the real "problems" with comparing our bodies and shape, and hair and skin come from models and actresses, and not an animated character like Cinderella.  

Plus, even from the questions Nora asks, she knows the story in those movies is dramtically oversimplified.

 

annie - re:milk.  It's completely up to you.  As vegans, we don't use any animal milk.  Granted my first did nurse past a year, but when I worked, once I stopped pumping, we did soymilk in a cuppy (at around 14-15 months).  Slowly she went to drinking soy milk during the day, and nursing only for nap and bed.  It was an incredibly slow process.  So for that reason, if I was in the same boat you are, I would personally choose to continue formula and step down gradually until A is taking in enough solid food to be satisfied, and you feel comfortable replacing that formula with an alternative milk.  There's nothing magic about cows milk vs soy vs almond vs coconut.  The fat content and protein content are what you want to look for.

 

Re: williamsburg - my first choice would be our own kitchen.  If it comes down to sharing I'm fine with it, but yeah, lets try to do separate.  How much cooking would you guys actually be doing?  I'm thinking at the parks we'll grab food out, right?  I'm thinking we'll really only need to cook breakfasts and some sort of easy dinner, if we don't get take out or go out to eat, right?4 days over a weekend would be awesome.  I say lets shoot for that!  Right now all weekends are open and good for us, so if they're all available, we can narrow it down based off those who work and need time off.

 

 

 

post #387 of 407
Thread Starter 
See, Carrie, I'm with you. I think there's a huge problem with pushing boys and girls to be boyish or girly but the flip side is just as bad, pushing boys and girls to be gender neutral. It sends a bad message, that there's something wrong with being one or the other. I think as long as we support our children's individual interests without pushing one or the other on them we don't need to worry about that. It's one thing to let your DD play dress up if she wants. It's something completely different to make her do those toddler beauty pageants.

Did any of those moms who said not to get the girl make up wear make up themselves? If so, pretty hypocritical. Maybe the girl just wanted to be like her mom. I don't really want my boys thinking war is glamorous but their daddy is a Marine who has been to war more than once since they've been born. He is their hero and they do glamorize what he does. I'm not going to squash that in them. They have plenty of time to find out what war is really like. In the meantime, I seriously doubt they will become rampaging Rambos terrorizing the neighborhood.

I must have missed the part about toddler formula vs. milk in annie's question. I don't know anything about those formulas but I don't trust the manufacturers to keep the ingredients healthy. From what I've read, the only regs for infant (and so probably toddler) formula is the protein/fat/carb content or ratio. There are no other regs on required or excluded ingredients. So, basically, as long as the manufacturer meats those regs they can put in or take out anything else they like. Who knows what they put in there? I've been reading The Omnivore's Dilemma and it's really freaking me out. I think I'd try making my own formula if I thought cow's milk wasn't enough. The Weston A. Price website might have some recipes.

my mom is coming today so i have a ton of cleaning to do. i doubt i'll get it done. i have to clean the bathroom for her. it's the one ryan uses and it's filthy. i've been reminding ryan to clean it for 3 days but he hasn't done it even though he said he would. eyesroll.gif then if i can get the kitchen and floors cleans, i'll be happy.

i'll try to get our reservations set while she is here. a minimum of 4 bedrooms, 2 kings, 1 queen and 2 doubles, with 2 or 3 kitchens depending on how many units we get. I'm so excited!
post #388 of 407
Thread Starter 
i forgot to say that i have the same issue with my boys, carrie. it was either my dad or ryan who pointed out to me that i have always liked almost all of ryan's friends, including the bad ones, but have never liked any of his girlfriends even if i liked them before as friends. once they break up and are just friends (again) i like them. it's not anything that i do consciously. i didn't even realize i was doing that. lol.gif

I've got another question about the vacation. The shortest we can get is 3 nights. With check-n on Friday afternoon and check-out Monday morning, we'd have two full days, Saturday and Sunday, plus however much time we want to have on Friday and Monday depending if we want to get there before we can check in and hang out and/or hang out for a while after we check out doing something.

So, just to be clear, do you all want 3 nights, which be 2 full days, or 4 nights, which would be 3 full days?
post #389 of 407

MW - it's funny you say that because my mom has never liked any of our significant others. Now that we are married she puts up with them for the most part - but I have a feeling she would have been happier if we decided to just be perpetually single......she does like the grandbabies though lol.gif

 

I do *not* want to continue formula for any longer than I have too. And I do *not* want to do toddler formula for the same reason. I don't trust what they put in them. I see more and more things about the sugar content of formula, and them using the wrong kind of sugar. Also the DHA and ARA additives being really bad. (even my organic formula has these additives, although as far as I can tell it didn't use the horrendous kind of sugar that most some organics were using.)

 

I think I remember reading something about coconut milk having the best fat content? I'm pretty sure that is what the milk is mostly responsible for - getting the good fat. 

 

Between giving them milk and the really good vitamin and mineral supplement I have started to give her a little bit of, I am pretty confident she can fill in those gaps.

 

Formula is giving me the heebie jeebies. Oh, plus she is really into food. She has been a Finn. I mean, just Nom Nom Nom anything I ever give her. 

post #390 of 407

Oh, I guess I kind of forgot to add that I really don't want to do cow's milk, even organic cows milk. We are already an almond milk drinking family. 

 

On top of not wanting to worry about hormones and what not - my kids have a tendency to get SUPER constipated on cow's milk. I mean, like crying on the couch for an hour, barfing, and then pooping. As soon as I stopped giving them cow's milk and switched to juice (this was before I knew about almond milk) it went away.

post #391 of 407
MW, I'd rather have the last day be Sunday for travel back but I'm ok with Monday as well. For those of you driving from further away, it might be worth it to do 4 nights/3 days but I'm good with either. If it's just me and DD or even if DH comes as well, we probably won't do too much cooking and I do a lot of veggie meat anyways. I hate it when my house smells like fried meat!
post #392 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

See, Carrie, I'm with you. I think there's a huge problem with pushing boys and girls to be boyish or girly but the flip side is just as bad, pushing boys and girls to be gender neutral. It sends a bad message, that there's something wrong with being one or the other. I think as long as we support our children's individual interests without pushing one or the other on them we don't need to worry about that. It's one thing to let your DD play dress up if she wants. It's something completely different to make her do those toddler beauty pageants.

I'm of the opinion that I don't really care what my children's preferences run towards (within reason, one of the things we talked about in the thread was bratz dolls and the like), as long as they are given full access and support to toys and play that are typically both genders. IE if Tenley -wants- to play dress up and princesses and ballerinas and hates getting muddy, that's fine, as long as she's given an environment that teaches her that she can play with mud and trucks and forts and not be less of a girl. 

post #393 of 407
Thread Starter 
They call the saturated fats in coconut milk healthy fats as compared to the saturated fats in animal products. Although, I'm not convinced that the saturated fats in animal products are really unhealthy. It's the way we've manipulated animal growth that has lead to the products containing more saturated fats than is normal and natural that's the problem, imo. My concern with subbing coconut (or any other milk) for mammalian milk is the protein content. There's virtually no protein in rice and coconut milks unless it's added. There's more in soy and almond milks because those contain higher concentrations of protein, anyway. But, I don't know that it compares to mammalian milk, especially the types of proteins. Without doing any research, my gut reaction is that almond milk would be better than soy.

Honestly, if you aren't going to do breastmilk, I'd probably cut out milk all together as a drink, maybe just use it for cereal. I wouldn't offer any of those other milks as drinks to replace mammalian milk. I'd probably offer coconut milk as a drink like any other if the kids like it. Does that make sense? But, then again, I don't really know much about how much milk toddlers need, especially if they are eating a lot of solid foods.

Here's an interesting article, although it doesn't provide any info for alternatives to milk and toddler formula. http://www.newbornbabyzone.com/toddler/toddler-formula-good-idea-or-clever-marketing/

Here's an article about the nutrition requirements of toddlers. http://kidshealth.org/parent/nutrition_center/healthy_eating/toddler_food.html# It's very mainstream, though, so I'm not sure I agree with it. For example, it says that all kids should consume dairy products. I don't agree with that. I think it's just an easy way for people to get calcium and vitamin D and our society has been so ingrained that we need dairy products (great marketing on the part of dairy farmers and dairy food manufacturers) but there are certainly other ways.

Here's another one, but again, it doesn't really offer alternatives if you want to avoid formula and all milks. http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/weeklyquestion/a/020602_ask.htm I find it humurous that YooHoo is listed as a good choice. lol.gif

So annoying that there isn't info out there on how to feed your child without some sort of dairy.I guess the thing to do would if you really wanted to avoid all of that is to find legumes, vegies and fruits that are high in calcium and vitamin D. Legumes are a good source of calcium and iron (not sure about vitamin D), but you have to eat more of them to get the same amount. But since you all take a vitamin D supplement anyway, maybe that one is not as much of a concern. Leafy green and coniferous veggies are good sources of calcium.

For the vacation, I was thinking a Friday to a Monday because then those who work regular work weeks would only have to take off 1-2 days. If we did 4 nights and checked out on a Sunday, we'd be checking in on a Wednesday, which would mean having to take 2-3 days off. Not sure if that's a problem for anyone. The days and length don't matter to me but they might to Sean. I'm just going to plan it and hope he can get the time off.
post #394 of 407
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeninejessica View Post

I'm of the opinion that I don't really care what my children's preferences run towards (within reason, one of the things we talked about in the thread was bratz dolls and the like), as long as they are given full access and support to toys and play that are typically both genders. IE if Tenley -wants- to play dress up and princesses and ballerinas and hates getting muddy, that's fine, as long as she's given an environment that teaches her that she can play with mud and trucks and forts and not be less of a girl. 


We cross-posted. ITA

But, unfortunately, it's a bit different for boys. It's perfectly ok in our society, for the most part, to let girls take part in what has typically been boy stuff. However, it is not as ok to let boys take part if things that are considered girly. It's still very wide spread that boys shouldn't play with dolls, or if they do, they should be boy dolls rather than baby dolls, or do ballet or wear pink or flowers. I got a lot of flack from the guys for letting Ethan choose and wear pink pants when he was 5. He liked the color. He didn't know they were "girl" pants. Why would I care? It didn't turn him into a girl or make him gay, which is the only things I can think of that scare people about stuff like that. eyesroll.gif
post #395 of 407

My concern would be making sure the toddler gets enough fat. Their brains are still rapidly developing and need lots of fat. If you could get plenty of fats in their diet other ways, then there shouldn't be a need for any milk or milk substitute.

post #396 of 407
Thread Starter 
More vacation info and questions. In doing more searching for rooms, I've found that they have something called a 4 bedroom lock off. It's two 2 bedroom deluxes with a connecting door into the living rooms. Each room has 1 bedroom with a king and 1 bedroom with 2 queens, a full kitchen, living room, balcony and jacuzzi tubs in the king bedrooms. If we got that, whoever shares with Carrie could just use the kitchen in the other unit. So, I guess the only problem with that might be if we have 3 of us wanting to make 3 different meals at the same time. I think it would be fun if we were all staying together as much as possible.

The other best option, I think, is a 2 bedroom deluxe and a 2 bedroom lockoff. That would come with 2 full kitchens and 1 mini kitchen. The only problem with that is that there's no guarantee the units would be next to each other or even in the same building.

So, which one would you all prefer, 4 bedroom lock off so we are all together but only 2 kitchens or the 2 separate 2 bedroom units but 3 kitchens?

Oh, and I looked into scheduling for a Sunday check out. That would mean checking in on a Wednenday. Since that's in the middle of all the weeks, there's more chance that we'd have to move to a different unit halfway through out stay. And, I kept getting mixed up about the 4 nights with check-in on Friday. That would mean check-out Tuesday morning.
post #397 of 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

More vacation info and questions. In doing more searching for rooms, I've found that they have something called a 4 bedroom lock off. It's two 2 bedroom deluxes with a connecting door into the living rooms. Each room has 1 bedroom with a king and 1 bedroom with 2 queens, a full kitchen, living room, balcony and jacuzzi tubs in the king bedrooms. If we got that, whoever shares with Carrie could just use the kitchen in the other unit. So, I guess the only problem with that might be if we have 3 of us wanting to make 3 different meals at the same time. I think it would be fun if we were all staying together as much as possible.
The other best option, I think, is a 2 bedroom deluxe and a 2 bedroom lockoff. That would come with 2 full kitchens and 1 mini kitchen. The only problem with that is that there's no guarantee the units would be next to each other or even in the same building.
So, which one would you all prefer, 4 bedroom lock off so we are all together but only 2 kitchens or the 2 separate 2 bedroom units but 3 kitchens?
Oh, and I looked into scheduling for a Sunday check out. That would mean checking in on a Wednenday. Since that's in the middle of all the weeks, there's more chance that we'd have to move to a different unit halfway through out stay. And, I kept getting mixed up about the 4 nights with check-in on Friday. That would mean check-out Tuesday morning.

 

I think the 4 bedroom lock-off would be the most fun. I can share a kitchen w/Carrie and just keep my cheese in the other fridge. I cook mostly veggie anyways. I'd rather not have to move once we settle in so whatever start-stop on the days accommodates that. Oh do the units have washer/dryers? With all our cloth, we're going to need it!
 

 

post #398 of 407

Oh and to add to that, even if my DH were there, he eats veggie meat too so wouldn't have a problem if I cooked him a dinner that was veggie meat or tofu.

post #399 of 407
Thread Starter 
Oh, that works out, Annie. I didn't realize you guys were mainly vegetarian. I don't mind going vegan for the trip but I know Sean wouldn't be happy about that.

Yes, there are washer/dryers in all the units. I thought of mentioning that. I plan to bring our CDs. I always have before.
post #400 of 407
Thread Starter 
Ok, I booked it! joy.gif I got a 4 bedroom lock off. Check in is 9/14 and it's for 4 nights, so check out will be that following Tuesday.

Here's a link to the place. https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/resort/details.do

If that doesn't take you right to it, it's called Governor's Green at Williamsburg, VA. The 4 bedroom lock off consists of two 2 bedroom deluxe units.
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