10.5 years later and survivor's guilt

[CatsCradle]

I don't expect anyone to respond to this post, but I just need to write it out.  About 10.5 years ago, two towers in my city crashed to the earth and thousands of people died.  The morning that it happened, I was north of the city in a constitutional law class.  When I got back home, I had to clean a thick layer of dust from my window sills, and over the months I discovered various items in my apartment that were covered in a black, thick dust.  I knew what it was...that dust.  It is 10.5 years later and I'm still not over it.  Why doesn't the sadness go away?

My biggest problem with the whole situation is that I had the good fortune of living.  Another big problem is that I live in the minds of the deceased every day.  I didn't have to make the phone call, I didn't have to decide to jump.  But yet, I'm there, I'm thinking about it.  Every day I look out of my window in my tall office building and think:  I don't have to make that decision to jump.  And, I feel GUILTY.  It has been 10.5 years, and I think about it every day.  There are so many reasons why I could have been in the area at that time (my office was only a block from the site and someone in my office actually died in the collapse).  After all these years, the day and experience is still in living color to me.  I walk around the area and still "see" dust in the cracks in the sidewalk.  I am surrounded by ghosts.

I'm having trouble looking through any other lens than the lens of that experience, and I wasn't even a first-hand participant.  I didn't stand at the base of the towers, but I stared at the dust on my window sills.  I walked around in the haze and smoke of the murdered.  I walked around the shell of a place and look(ed) up into the blank sky where there was once steel and shadows.  My daily life is filled with constant reminders.  Every time a movie comes out about the experience, it seems super shallow to me even though I know the other person's experience and interpretation is valid.  

I've read about survivor's guilt.  I'm not a survivor in the sense that I actually survived a tragedy, but I feel like I was a reluctant witness.  I feel like I've been cleaning up ever since.  There is no peace yet.

Thanks for listening.  I haven't really talked about it all to anyone.

[zebra15]

I was 3k miles away that day and still feel guilt.  I still cry when I see images, cry when I see movies.  It's ok,  That was a horrible day and that day is something to remember and honor.  I can not imagine having to clean the dust for months on end

I know its many years later but have you gone through therapy?  Sometimes just talking about what you feel is a great relief and helps in processing the entire event.

[CatsCradle]

Thanks so much, Zebra.  I do think that writing it out was a good thing for me to do. 

[Bokonon]

  I was also 3000 miles away that day, but grew up in New Jersey, with friends and family still in and around NYC.  I felt so trapped that day because I wouldn't have been able to get "home" if I needed to.  I was fortunate that none of my loved ones died that day.  My experience is piddly compared to what you went through, but it affected me greatly and triggered a long, severe depression.  So I really can't imagine how hard it must be to have constant reminders of that horrible day as you and other New Yorkers are faced with.

I can't watch movies about it or even the footage from that day.  I don't want to relive it.  I don't know anyone who will ever forget.  I don't know that the trauma from that day will ever go away, especially when there are always new movies and TV specials about it and we are faced with the same horrific images over and over again.  You have my utmost sympathies for what you have gone through.  I was just thinking that there must be support groups for people like you, who didn't lose loved ones but are still grieving - there must be millions like you (not that that diminishes your experience by any means) who need to get this out too.

More .  I wish I had any wisdom about this, for you and for me.

[CI Mama]

I think this is why human beings need art. There are things that are too big and too overwhelming to understand through ordinary means. Art gives us tools for exploring and expressing things that are outside of our ordinary experiences.

Writing is a good place to begin. I find your words about your experience very moving. They are helpful to you, but they are also helpful to others (like me) who feel similar things that they haven't yet found a way to articulate.

Are there other expressive mediums that you can use to create a container for your experience?

I think some things we are not meant to "get over" or "forget" or "be at peace with." We just have to find ways to carry our grief and unease, and our awareness of that which is beyond the ordinary, and to see those things as gifts, not burdens.

Please keep sharing your experience with us.

[CatsCradle]

Bokonon:  no experience is piddly, and I totally get what you're saying about the depression.  Sometimes I think that when things like this happen, it is impossible for us to process.  Intellectually, I've come to terms with it.  I understand the specifics, I've come to terms with the "whys."  Emotionally I can't deal.  I don't think proximity makes it worse necessarily.  I grieve for people that existed long ago in history, even before I was born.  I think it is the human condition to put one's self in the place of others and to experience their pain from afar.  Sometimes I think if one didn't feel these things, there is a disconnect that is foreign to me.

CI Mama:  thanks always for your thoughtful posts.  It's funny, but I'm a visual artist (the lawyer thing...that's just for retirement purposes...LOL), but art (visual and theatre) is the thing that ultimately motivates me.  It's interesting that you bring up expression and art, because it reminded me of the big controversy when Eric Fischl, the famed art star of the 80's here in NY, created a piece called "Falling Woman" (I think that was the title) in response to the tragedy, and people were outraged.  People thought it was highly inappropriate.  Oddly, I could see both sides:  the artist creating something which was his own reaction; the public who had not quite healed.  It's a catch-22.  

Sorry, I have to run but this discussion is so great for me.  Be back  soon.

Edited by CatsCradle - 2/2/12 at 6:52pm

[MrsGregory]

I was 13 miles away that day, and I am still unable to put into words exactly what I feel.  But I am happy you came home.  I am happy for everyone that came home, and sorrowful for everyone that didn't.

What made you think about it today?  What made you write about it today?

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by MrsGregory 

I was 13 miles away that day, and I am still unable to put into words exactly what I feel.  But I am happy you came home.  I am happy for everyone that came home, and sorrowful for everyone that didn't.

What made you think about it today?  What made you write about it today?

There's a new movie out:  "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close."  I haven't seen it yet but I've read plenty of reviews.  The posters are all over the subway system.  I haven't decided if I'm going to see it.  It is from the perspective of a child.  

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

I've read about survivor's guilt.  I'm not a survivor in the sense that I actually survived a tragedy, but I feel like I was a reluctant witness.  I feel like I've been cleaning up ever since.  There is no peace yet.

you are a survivor.

and you live with it -- so many of us live where we can forget from time to time -- we can go about our day without seeing the reminders, without people missing, without it being quite so real.

You don't have that option. You are right there. Right now.

There are a lot of books on trauma and about how human beings process overwhelming events such as war or being victims of crime. It's possible that honoring that you have had a traumatic experience, that you ARE a survivor, may be the first step to processing all that has happened. 

You are right, what you went through isn't the same as what someone went through who was in one of the towers. It doesn't have to be for what you experienced to be Valid, or to require tremendous grace.
 

[Mama505]

Wow, so much that I'd like to write...

This is such a hard topic, I commend you for reaching out.  I watched from across the East River and this is probably the most I have said since.  Every time I try and talk about it, I feel like I am cheapening "it".  (Already) 

For me, at least, there is a cocktail of things... empathy, guilt, and this 'other thing'.  The other thing feels like a complete invasion of personal privacy (maybe like a burglary, but I don't know), but like something no one else can understand, not even the people who sat on the roof with me watching and crying.  I am not sure.  This is more than I have ever said before, and it is so unclear. 

I feel for you, and send you warmth. 

[MrsGregory]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

There's a new movie out:  "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close."  I haven't seen it yet but I've read plenty of reviews.  The posters are all over the subway system.  I haven't decided if I'm going to see it.  It is from the perspective of a child.  

Aha.  I think that movie looks beautiful and moving, but I don't know that I'll be watching itself, myself.  I'm sorry you're going through this, still, again, right now.  I wish peace for you. 

[Nazsmum]

I watched the plane hit the 2nd building. It is something I will never get out of my mind.

My friend was late for work that morning and worked in the towers. She would have been gone. So thankful for her being late.

I feel sad in Sept.  Matter of fact I HATE SEPT.

[34me]

I grew up on LI and my dad worked in Manhattan most of my life.  On that day, the only reason that I switched on the TV is that one of the local football players snapped his leg in Monday Night Football the night before.  It affected me in a visceral way that I can't explain.  I lost several classmates, the mom of one, MIL of one so many associated.  One class mate was on maternaty leave so wasn't there that day but would have been if it was just a couple months earlier/later.  So from 2,000 miles away I grieved and no one got it.  I think what you are going through is totally understandable.

[kathymuggle]

[Imakcerka]

That was such a yucky day.  DH and I still talk about it.  We fought on our way to work and that country song was on the radio "it's a great day to be alive".  We picked up breakfast drove onto Ft. Meade and an hour later we were the hub of all Gov't business in our small little building.  I remember wanding people in checking badges and guns.  16hrs Walking the perimeter as all of NSA emptied and us lone 12 were stuck guarding our area.  I didn't cry until I got home that night.  The day was so ugly.  People calling their wives and husbands at the pentagon.  I remember one guy literally falling to the ground in tears because he couldn't get ahold of his partner.  I hate that day and I hated everything that came after.  Everything changed. 

It doesn't matter where you were, everyone was affected.  We felt so helpless.  That's a horrible feeling in uniform. 

[HappyHappyMommy]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

I don't expect anyone to respond to this post, but I just need to write it out.  About 10.5 years ago, two towers in my city crashed to the earth and thousands of people died.  The morning that it happened, I was north of the city in a constitutional law class.  When I got back home, I had to clean a thick layer of dust from my window sills, and over the months I discovered various items in my apartment that were covered in a black, thick dust.  I knew what it was...that dust.  It is 10.5 years later and I'm still not over it.  Why doesn't the sadness go away?

...

I've read about survivor's guilt.  I'm not a survivor in the sense that I actually survived a tragedy, but I feel like I was a reluctant witness.  I feel like I've been cleaning up ever since.  There is no peace yet.

Thanks for listening.  I haven't really talked about it all to anyone.

OP, thank you for sharing. I think talking about the things that are difficult is a courageous thing to do and often helps a lot. And as you and other PPs have suggested writing and art can be very helpful. I think the events of September 11, 2001 affected many, many--in New York, DC, PA, and around the world--and each of our reactions are different, but I haven't yet met anyone for whom the events were not difficult.

I say this gently and with a great deal of support, from what you describe, I think you may be struggling with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and getting some assistance from a therapist might really help you so that the sadness and the thoughts and guilt and the pain and the ghosts aren't with you daily. If you don't know much about PTSD, this link may be helpful: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246. As the article discusses, lots of people deal with and recover from PTSD. And being a witness to a traumatic event (such as a terrorist attack) can lead to PTSD.

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 
you are a survivor.

...

You are right, what you went through isn't the same as what someone went through who was in one of the towers. It doesn't have to be for what you experienced to be Valid, or to require tremendous grace.

I totally agree with the lines above. OP, I wish you peace and healing. I don't think that anyone will forget the events of September 11th, but I do believe that you can move to a place where it's not hurting you and haunting you daily.
 

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by HappyHappyMommy 

I say this gently and with a great deal of support, from what you describe, I think you may be struggling with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and getting some assistance from a therapist might really help you so that the sadness and the thoughts and guilt and the pain and the ghosts aren't with you daily. If you don't know much about PTSD, this link may be helpful: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246. As the article discusses, lots of people deal with and recover from PTSD. And being a witness to a traumatic event (such as a terrorist attack) can lead to PTSD.

You don't have to say it gently, HappyHappyMommy, because I know intellectually that what you say about PTSD is probably true.  It is hard to admit that kind of thing because it is one of those psychological things that people can't quite grasp.  Which leads me to the following:

I think as Americans (and can probably include Canadians in the mix) that in our modern era, we've seen very little mass violence first-hand.  We "experience" wars from afar, we live relatively violence-free lives (except for the random psycho events that happen in very limited circumstances).  My grandparents and great grandparents only experienced the great wars in the respect that they had to cut back on goods or they knew someone from their town who lost life or limb.  We don't live it everyday, first hand.  Through my work, I'm assisting some Iraqi individuals in applying for refugee status to the U.S.  They send me e-mails every day talking about the violence and terror.  Even with my own experiences of that fateful day 10.5 years ago, I still haven't grasped the concept of daily fear.  I don't know, I'm just insensitive and raw at the same time, if that is something that can be accomplished.  

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

It is hard to admit that kind of thing because it is one of those psychological things that people can't quite grasp.  Which leads me to the following:

I think as Americans (and can probably include Canadians in the mix) that in our modern era, we've seen very little mass violence first-hand. .... Even with my own experiences of that fateful day 10.5 years ago, I still haven't grasped the concept of daily fear. 

You are still in denial.

I've seen lots of violence first hand -- I grew up with it. Lots of Americans do. I think by making your post about "americans"  you've completely gotten out of your OWN experience and what is going FOR YOU.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

You are still in denial.

I've seen lots of violence first hand -- I grew up with it. Lots of Americans do. I think by making your post about "americans"  you've completely gotten out of your OWN experience and what is going FOR YOU.

You've seen "mass" violence first hand?  Because that was my qualifier in my previous post.  I'm not trying to be snarky or dismissive but I don't think very many Americans have seen "mass violence" first hand.  You may have people who have seen shooting and the like where a number of people have died, but I'm trying to think of a situation post-Civil War where Americans have experienced mass violence on our own soil outside of situations like Kent State, Columbine, individuals going postal, etc.  

Violence exists in our every day lives and many people experience it more than others, in their homes or otherwise, but on a grand scale, but not many of us in contemporary times have experienced the total obliteration of large groups.  Violence is violence, but the point I was trying to make above is that the wiping out of people in an instant is not something that I have experienced in my lifetime, nor do I think that most Americans have experienced this, and while I think it is hard for any person anywhere to process, I don't think it is something in our national psyche because we've never been presented with it our modern times.  I guess I wasn't explaining myself well and perhaps thinking more in philosophical terms. I'll shut up because I guess I'm digging a hole.  Not trying to diminish others' experiences with pain and suffering because I more than recognize that it exists, just observing that violence on a large scale is not part of our daily existence.  

I'm sorry I posted this because I feel like by doing so, I may be diminishing others' experiences, which I recognize as real.

Edited by CatsCradle - 2/7/12 at 6:21pm

[Imakcerka]

violence is violence in my opinion. 
 

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

You've seen "mass" violence first hand?  Because that was my qualifier in my previous post.  I'm not trying to be snarky or dismissive but I don't think very many Americans have seen "mass violence" first hand.  You may have people who have seen shooting and the like where a number of people have died, but I'm trying to think of a situation post-Civil War where Americans have experienced mass violence on our own soil outside of situations like Kent State, Columbine, etc.  

Violence exists in our every day lives and many people experience it more than others, in their homes or otherwise, but on a grand scale, but not many of us in contemporary times have experienced the total obliteration of large groups.  Violence is violence, but the point I was trying to make above is that the wiping out of people in an instant is not something that I have experienced in my lifetime, nor do I think that most Americans have experienced this, and while I think it is hard for any person anywhere to process, I don't think it is something it is something in our national psyche because we've never been presented with it our modern times.  I guess I wasn't explaining myself well and perhaps thinking more in philosophical terms. I'll shut up because it doesn't effing matter.