What happens when the parents cant agree? - Page 2

[tammylsmith]

Well I'll bet OP knows by now, but I still wanted to chime in my 2 cents.  I can't stress enough that you don't have to agree!(!!!)

Edited because I didn't realize I posted a response to this thread already, lol. Oops :) The above is my point in a nutshell.

[LLQ1011]

I hope you live where I live. It never came up. THe hospitals here don't do it. And our pediatrician never asked. My boyfriend brought it up and my pediatrician said something along the lines of "Cosmetic surgery is for adults" when the baby was jaundice in the NICU the lady did ask but I refused and that was the end of that. THere was no consent form. I am hoping the culture is just changing.

Good luck mama. It's us that will change this for the next generation. Heres hoping in 50 years its not even something that comes up!!!

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by LLQ1011 

I hope you live where I live. It never came up. THe hospitals here don't do it. And our pediatrician never asked. My boyfriend brought it up and my pediatrician said something along the lines of "Cosmetic surgery is for adults" when the baby was jaundice in the NICU the lady did ask but I refused and that was the end of that. THere was no consent form. I am hoping the culture is just changing.

Good luck mama. It's us that will change this for the next generation. Heres hoping in 50 years its not even something that comes up!!!

OMGoodness, I love that!  For my email signature, I say something about circ & have a link to intactamerica.org.  I may just change it to this!

Sus

[A&A]

Originally Posted by HillHouse 

This issue is killing me. I am about 16 weeks pregnant and anti circ and my husband is 100% pro. I just read The Vulnerability of Men article and that is the exact same argument we had last night. We have a 16 month old daughter so this was never an issue before. I am praying we have another girl so we don't have to go down this road. I will be getting a sonogram soon to determine the sex. If its a boy I will just have to put my foot down. The stress of waiting to find out is horrible. I have been trying not to get too worked up since we don't know yet but it's hard.

Just keep letting your dh know (through actions) that you love *all* of him just the way he is.  While also letting him know that your ds WON'T be circumcised, over your dead body, end of story.  

[Sharlla]

here and many other states medicaid doesnt even cover it because it's not a necessary procedure.  if my partner ever went and had it done behind my back that would be the end of my marriage to them.
 

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by HillHouse 

Sonogram is scheduled for Aug 6th and we will find out then boy or girl. I think I am winning the war. He said to me the other day "what if he wants it done when he is older"? I told him no big deal we can discuss then but I could not in good conscience subject a baby to a medical procedure that was for cosmetic reasons only. Fingers crossed this just blows over.  

If he does want it done when he gets older

1) He can pay for it himself
2) It will be easier to do, since the penis will be much larger
3) He can be given the necessary pain killers and medicines to be put to sleep during the operation

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by Sharlla 

here and many other states medicaid doesnt even cover it because it's not a necessary procedure.  if my partner ever went and had it done behind my back that would be the end of my marriage to them.

...and in some states where Medicare/Medicaid does pay for it, they may (or may not) cover it as an adult, because an adult circumcision is "a cosmetic procedure" whereas a RIC is not considered a cosmetic procedure.

Disgusting.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by bugmenot 


If he does want it done when he gets older
1) He can pay for it himself
2) It will be easier to do, since the penis will be much larger
3) He can be given the necessary pain killers and medicines to be put to sleep during the operation

The other notable thing about having a circ as an adult is that the foreskin will not need to be ripped from the glans.  Since it will almost always be retractable, the glans will not be wounded as well.  And there's the whole wound-mixing-with-feces-&-urine issue.

Disgusting.

Sus

[rielly]

This thread is very helpful. I just found out we're expecting a boy and I suspect my husband will be pro-circ. I'm a nurse and am 100% against circumcision. I've seen so many of them performed (by OB interns no less!) and I could never subject a newborn to that kind of trauma. Our first child is a girl so this never came up for us. Is anyone aware of any videos or documentaries I could show my husband to help make him aware of what the procedure entails & the risks involved? I want to convince him, but I don't want to come across as a know-it-all who doesn't respect his opinion. We had a homebirth last time, but this time we'll be using a birthing center bc my midwife will be out of town when I'm likely to deliver. I still need to ask my OB about how this issue is handled at the birthing Ctr. Hoping they don't offer it as a matter of course.

[rielly]

PS

I will be sure to read the essay! Thanks!

[alaskanmomma]

Unfortunately, when DH and I disagreed, I gave into his bullying and got our son circumcised. Needless to say that "routine" procedure put us through almost 2 years of hell, countless urologist visits and 2 more surgeries to correct what the original dr. botched. If I could go back in time, I wouldn't have given in, if he really was going to leave me or not want to be in our sons life and the other angry(and I am just going to assume were empty) threats, he could go ahead. My child is more important.

[Mitchell756]

Originally Posted by rielly 

This thread is very helpful. I just found out we're expecting a boy and I suspect my husband will be pro-circ. I'm a nurse and am 100% against circumcision. I've seen so many of them performed (by OB interns no less!) and I could never subject a newborn to that kind of trauma. Our first child is a girl so this never came up for us. Is anyone aware of any videos or documentaries I could show my husband to help make him aware of what the procedure entails & the risks involved? I want to convince him, but I don't want to come across as a know-it-all who doesn't respect his opinion. We had a homebirth last time, but this time we'll be using a birthing center bc my midwife will be out of town when I'm likely to deliver. I still need to ask my OB about how this issue is handled at the birthing Ctr. Hoping they don't offer it as a matter of course.

The Penn and teller episode on circumcision may be the easiest for him to understand without doing the mountains of research that many of the rest of us do.

Here is the episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNKmfUZUlbo

This page describes the function of the foreskin. http://www.coloradonocirc.org/foreskin.php

A man describes his experience of having a full circumcision for non medical reasons as an adult. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHGFx95D80

Soraya Mire describes her view of male and female forced genital alterations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggqa6CCTR-4

Guide to the intact penis. http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/physiciansguide.html

Circumcision decision maker. http://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com/

And finally you should show him a video of a circumcision being performed. When I first saw one I was horrified and absolutely infuriated! Here is one that deeply disturbs me to even look up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDuDhkiDdns

Show him all of these things and if he still insists remember that you have the ability to single handedly prevent this from occurring. You are the only one that can protect your son at the most vulnerable point in his life, he is depending on you. Don't let him down.

[rielly]

Thank you, Mitchell. These are great resources. I still have to put out feelers as to his opinion, but I like to come armed to a potential fight. I'm pretty sure he will be pro-circ. Like I said, I have seen many circs in the nursery. They are indeed very disturbing to watch. I convinced him to have a homebirth the first time around and I'm generally very easy going in terms of other big life decisions, so I'm very hopeful I can get this done without a (big) fight. But fight I will should it come to that. I just could not stand for it. I will post back here and let you know how it goes. I probably won't be able to bring it up until this weekend. Thank you again for your support. Much appreciated.

[hakunangovi]

Reilly,  There are a couple of excellent videos out there that may help:

An Elephant in the Hospital:  http://www.youtube/watch?v=ZSM-SkwGEf0   Narrated by a doctor, it just gives the facts in a non emotional and very rational way.  I love it - it is so "common sense".

Penn &Teller:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGcqPE7xu0&feature=related   This is a bit coarse, but very funny and should appeal to any man.

Just remember, the foreskin in question belongs to your son.  No one else.  So it should be him that decides if he wants to keep it or not.  There are thousands of men out there who are really angry that their parents and the medical community took that choice away from them.  Also, I suspect that should you back down to your DH, then you will resent him for ever for forcing you into damaging your son.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any more questions.

[EchoSoul]

Originally Posted by hakunangovi 

Reilly,  There are a couple of excellent videos out there that may help:

An Elephant in the Hospital:  http://www.youtube/watch?v=ZSM-SkwGEf0   Narrated by a doctor, it just gives the facts in a non emotional and very rational way.  I love it - it is so "common sense".

Penn &Teller:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGcqPE7xu0&feature=related   This is a bit coarse, but very funny and should appeal to any man.

Just remember, the foreskin in question belongs to your son.  No one else.  So it should be him that decides if he wants to keep it or not.  There are thousands of men out there who are really angry that their parents and the medical community took that choice away from them.  Also, I suspect that should you back down to your DH, then you will resent him for ever for forcing you into damaging your son.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any more questions.

Great links... I think I will show these to my friend who's pregnant with a baby boy. I just fear her backlash that I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong...

[rielly]

I watched the "Elephant in the Hospital" lecture in nursing school. Thank you for the reminder. I pre-screened all of the videos last night. Really great resources. I think I will start with a verbal argument & then move on to the baby being circ'd on you tube and follow up w the lecture and Penn, etc if need be. I think that video of the infant is particularly effective because the viewer hears both the baby and the father. The father sounds like he really regrets consenting.

I would indeed resent my husband, but mostly myself, if I were to back down. I'm prepared to negotiate, too. I've thought I could offer him sole "naming rights" if it comes to that, although I highly doubt it will. It's sad that this is a cultural norm for us that we have to push up against.

[rielly]

Originally Posted by EchoSoul 

Great links... I think I will show these to my friend who's pregnant with a baby boy. I just fear her backlash that I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong...

That's why it's called INFORMED consent

[rielly]

Beware- long post!

Ok so I have officially underestimated the greatness of DH. I wasn't planning on bringing anything up until tomorrow, but we were sitting together on the couch and he brought out his planner to share some boy names that he jotted down during work. Well, I found it very nice that he included names that I know give him pause because he knows I like them. There were some great new names on the list, as well, which we both really liked. It was a happy moment full of joy & anticipation for the new baby. We may have found our working title! Then he asked if I had thought of any new names.

No, I said, I have been preoccupied with something else. I'm really incredibly reluctant to circumcise the baby, so I've been spending my free time researching that. I've seen so many circ's in the hospital, and they strike me as very brutal.

Well, his response was WAY better than I anticipated. He said he has had conversations with his business partner about his decision to circ or leave his own sons intact. It appears that his business partner thought the only reason to circ would be locker room teasing. My husband thinks he & his wife decided against it, but can't remember for sure.

Since he brought up the cosmetic aspect, I decided to bring up the regional circ stats that I read in the links provided by this forum. I also pointed out that circumcision is illegal in the UK, and very rare throughout Europe & North America outside of the US. Thanks to you all, I was able to rattle of some impressive stats, proving that trends show that hardly any US born child will be alone in their intact state in a large group of peers. I also raised the point I heard in the Penn & Teller episode about teaching children to love their bodies as they are made by nature. I think that resonated with my husband even more than the stats.

He said he would like to talk to his brothers about their decisions, and I suspect their sons are circumcised. Because of this I asked him, what if you couldn't get feedback from anyone else? What if you had to decide based on the information you have, your instinct as a parent, and nothing more? He replied that he would choose in that case to leave our son intact. I said, me, too. I can't bear the thought of putting any baby, let alone my baby through a medically unnecessary, painful surgery. I told him that I won't change my mind no matter what people say, although I will listen to them if that's what he wants to do, because I suspect that they made their decision to go through with circumcision based largely on some combination of misinformation and cultural bias. I also don't think it's any of their business. I said that our son's body would be his own, and that I don't like the idea of some antiquated ritual getting in the way of his autonomy. He kind of made a joke out if that, but it didn't feel dismissive. He just said, that doesn't surprise me- we all know you're an undercover hippy. He is also an undercover hippy, so this is something of an inside joke for us.

This seemed to settle it, and we went back to discussing names and what to get DH's older brother for his birthday. I feel hugely relieved and I just wanted to post to let those of you who shared your perspectives and knowledge with me know how much I appreciate it. I am very confident in my decision, and I think that confidence allowed me to discuss the issue w DH in a calm, non-threatening way, and for that I thank you all.

[Mitchell756]

That is wonderful news Rielly, I am glad that it all worked out for you and your husband.