Need to vent to a supportive group

[kesrya]

My non-vaxed son is one year old on Sunday. He's never even had a cold.  Twice in his life he got stuffy when we were staying at my sister-in-laws, and that cleared as soon as we left.  He's also traveled everywhere with me.  We were out of the house with him at one week, and did bi-weekly long-weekend trips up and down the East Coast so that I could attend work-related conferences, meetings and classes.  We could do all this because, as a licensed health provider, I prioritize building a healthy natural immune system and as a result, our family rarely gets sick anymore, and when we do - we recover quicker than others around us.

A friend with a month old baby just posted to FB her sob story about how hard it is being a new mom when her family goes out without her because she can't leave the house until the baby gets her 2 month shots.  A friend of hers responded "Good job not being selfish and exposing!"

I could ignore the sob story, but I keep having to hold myself back from commenting on the "selfish" post.  I didn't willy nilly expose my child to the world because I was selfish.  I work very hard to keep our family's immune systems strong, giving up many enjoyable foods and activities that harm the immune system, exclusively breast feeding despite being a working mom, prioritizing exercise, taking the time and money to purchase the best, organic or pasture raised foods  - doing things that this woman probably wouldn't make the effort to do for a single week, much less as a lifestyle life-long commitment to health.

I'd like to say something such as "vaccinations are one of many options to protect against the spread of disease, not the only option."  But it is probably best that i just leave this alone.

Thanks for listening.  This forum is very comforting to me at times when I feel very alone in our health care choices.

* Edited to add that I'm not questioning my friend's choice -- it is her decision and I totally respect that.  I am disappointed in her very public complaint / whine about the choice she has made, and the following insult from her friend that parents who make an informed decision to do otherwise are being "selfish".

Edited by kesrya - 2/8/12 at 8:10am

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by kesrya 

A friend with a month old baby just posted to FB her sob story about how hard it is being a new mom when her family goes out without her because she can't leave the house until the baby gets her 2 month shots.  A friend of hers responded "Good job not being selfish and exposing!"

This doesn't even make sense.  Is she afraid her child is going to catch polio before getting the 2 month shot??  She has probably been to the germy doctor's office several times with the child before it gets any shots, and the baby is far more likely to get sick there than get a VPD.

I hate that so many people think that if you get your shots, you won't get sick, as if vaccines create an immunity to every illness out there.  It just shows the ignorance that most have about how vaccines work.

[kesrya]

Yup! That is EXACTLY the issue I have with her post.  Sure, there is some merit to keeping your child at home to prevent the spread of illness - but this has nothing to do with vaccinations.  Most of the illnesses her daughter could be exposed to in a public place are not VPD, so the statement that she can leave the house at 2 months after the vaccinations is just so uninformed, it hurts me not to reply.  But I cannot think of a way to reply that would educate her, rather than just coming across snarky.  So I am biting my tongue.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by kesrya 

Yup! That is EXACTLY the issue I have with her post.  Sure, there is some merit to keeping your child at home to prevent the spread of illness - but this has nothing to do with vaccinations.  Most of the illnesses her daughter could be exposed to in a public place are not VPD, so the statement that she can leave the house at 2 months after the vaccinations is just so uninformed, it hurts me not to reply.  But I cannot think of a way to reply that would educate her, rather than just coming across snarky.  So I am biting my tongue.

You could ask her if her doctor suggested the 2-month wait, or if she is being overprotective.  I had 2 preemies and was never advised to just stay home, but to practice basic illness avoidance (lots of hand washing, wearing the baby to keep strangers' hands away, avoiding places like Walmart, etc.).  And they never got polio.  ;)

[kesrya]

Her pediatrician is a moron.  The child had lost 2 ounces during the first week after birth and had not gained them back by the 2 week visit (probably because she was still on the way down for losing weight, so she had gained back but it appeared that the weight hadn't changed). So he told her to start formula - despite the fact that the girl latches and nurses well - and that if the girl had not gained the 2 ounces back by the third week they would run a bunch of genetic testing.  Can you imagine that?  My son lost 12 ounces and didn't return to his birth weight for an entire month and our pediatrician was totally supportive, low stress about it.  Once my EBF baby got back to his birth weight, he has remained in the 85% for height and weight since!  I'm sure the pediatrician told her this.

[slmommy]

hahaha, sometimes I have to literally FORCE myself to step away from facebook and not respond to some comments... usually a little after I'm glad I didn't make any comment, it's just not worth it... 

[BeckyBird]

My DH called home yesterday and asked me to delete a post he had made the night before...I warned him about FB before he joined up!

OP, that lady's comment angers me too. It sounds like she needs to study a little bit more!

[meaganhope21]

you could private message her and tell her that you r not questioning her choice but ... and then just post what you told us. and elaborate or even a pm to ask if she would mind your opinion on it. 

that way you give her an out of not wanting the info and you dont make her post a public battle its not worth it and it will turn her off.  but this way you are loving and respecting her and educating if it is wanted.

i am very proud of you  for the choices you have made to make your family soo soo healthy.

would you mind sharing what you did

i am still seeking out what to do for my health let alone my little ones.  as i am recovering from chronic illness just by eating good foods and eliminating toxin exposure and that allowed me to be healthy enough to get pregnant in just 3 mo of hard work which now i love the choices i have made.

[lokidoki]

I have REALLY had a hard time with keeping my mouth shut about not only vaccination choices without education first...but about stopping BF with the lame excuse of "I wasn't producing enough milk because my baby wanted to nurse every 1 1/2 hours when he was an infant."!!!! I was just telling someone today that is pregnant (she just found out) that BF and the choices I make are not "easy" or even remotely easy...they are made because I believe in sacrificing of myself for my childrens' health. Sadly the pediatricians of today are mostly told that formula is just as good as breastmilk and if your baby is crying at 1 1/2 hours after nursing...then you just are not "producing enough milk". DS2 was born in June and I have since had several friends who have had babies ~ 3 of which have ALL gone onto formula after just BF for 6 weeks because they claim they were not producing enough milk. Either our ability to produce milk is going out the window or people want to be lazy and expect a baby to go 3 hours in between feedings. I have TOTALLY had to sit on my tongue to keep from blurting out ~ YOU ARE BEING LAZY, your milk production is not the problem. I even had one friend who had a pediatrician tell her that her baby was taking in too much milk (she BF and switched to formula) so to put the baby on a "restriction" aka diet!!!! at 3 months of age.

[boomer78]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

This doesn't even make sense.  Is she afraid her child is going to catch polio before getting the 2 month shot??  She has probably been to the germy doctor's office several times with the child before it gets any shots, and the baby is far more likely to get sick there than get a VPD.

I hate that so many people think that if you get your shots, you won't get sick, as if vaccines create an immunity to every illness out there.  It just shows the ignorance that most have about how vaccines work.

Yes! Makes me wonder, too. And, even if the shots were to protect the 2-month-old (against the VPDs), would they protect the child after the first dose only, given at 2 months? Shouldn't she still be nervous to travel with the baby afterwards?

[boomer78]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I have REALLY had a hard time with keeping my mouth shut about not only vaccination choices without education first...but about stopping BF with the lame excuse of "I wasn't producing enough milk because my baby wanted to nurse every 1 1/2 hours when he was an infant."!!!! I was just telling someone today that is pregnant (she just found out) that BF and the choices I make are not "easy" or even remotely easy...they are made because I believe in sacrificing of myself for my childrens' health. Sadly the pediatricians of today are mostly told that formula is just as good as breastmilk and if your baby is crying at 1 1/2 hours after nursing...then you just are not "producing enough milk". DS2 was born in June and I have since had several friends who have had babies ~ 3 of which have ALL gone onto formula after just BF for 6 weeks because they claim they were not producing enough milk. Either our ability to produce milk is going out the window or people want to be lazy and expect a baby to go 3 hours in between feedings. I have TOTALLY had to sit on my tongue to keep from blurting out ~ YOU ARE BEING LAZY, your milk production is not the problem. I even had one friend who had a pediatrician tell her that her baby was taking in too much milk (she BF and switched to formula) so to put the baby on a "restriction" aka diet!!!! at 3 months of age.

Some pediatricians should not be practicing. Our former one informed us during the 1 month visit that dd is nursing too much (on demand) when she specifically told me at the hospital to only nurse every 3-4 hours, and so she doesn't become fat she suggested I give her pedialyte every other feeding. Of course I didn't and of couse dd was only chubby until being mobile. Now she is on the skinny side. I wish this pedi knew I'm glad I didn't follow her advice (while knowing nothing about bf at the time) but she fired us for wanting to delay vaxing while studying the topic thoroughly.

To the OP: I found out sometimes I can't keep my mouth shut while other times I stay quiet. I pick my battles. People who think non vaxing = selfish really haven't studied the topic much.  Congrats on the healthy choices you're making for your family.  We live way more different than all of our friends - I'm sure they think we're nuts sometimes.  I've also grown further apart from some of my friends because of it. But we definitely seem to be healthier and I'm sure it's because of the choices we've made. :)

[purslaine]

Not exposing…. 

If you feel so inclined, you could let her know that the likelihood of a a newborn exposing anyone to any VPDs is close to nil.  Give her the rates on Diptheria and the like in the USA if you so desire.    

Of course, all of this is just FB drama…..I am not sure i would post any of it…but you can vent here!!!!!

Welcome!

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I have REALLY had a hard time with keeping my mouth shut about not only vaccination choices without education first...but about stopping BF with the lame excuse of "I wasn't producing enough milk because my baby wanted to nurse every 1 1/2 hours when he was an infant."!!!! I was just telling someone today that is pregnant (she just found out) that BF and the choices I make are not "easy" or even remotely easy...they are made because I believe in sacrificing of myself for my childrens' health. Sadly the pediatricians of today are mostly told that formula is just as good as breastmilk and if your baby is crying at 1 1/2 hours after nursing...then you just are not "producing enough milk". DS2 was born in June and I have since had several friends who have had babies ~ 3 of which have ALL gone onto formula after just BF for 6 weeks because they claim they were not producing enough milk. Either our ability to produce milk is going out the window or people want to be lazy and expect a baby to go 3 hours in between feedings. I have TOTALLY had to sit on my tongue to keep from blurting out ~ YOU ARE BEING LAZY, your milk production is not the problem. I even had one friend who had a pediatrician tell her that her baby was taking in too much milk (she BF and switched to formula) so to put the baby on a "restriction" aka diet!!!! at 3 months of age.

Most bf-ing mums follow a feeding schedule suggested by their pediatrician--a schedule that the pediatrician was taught in medical school, by a paid representative of the formula company.  

Hence the advice, "if your baby is crying at 1 1/2 hours after nursing you are not producing enough milk."  I have NEVER heard of a pediatrician  who advised new mums that babies need to nurse as often as every 30-90 minutes, especially during growth spurts.

In most cases, we really can't blame the mums--it's the pediatricians who are at fault, but even then, you have to look at who taught them.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by kesrya 

A friend with a month old baby just posted to FB her sob story about how hard it is being a new mom when her family goes out without her because she can't leave the house until the baby gets her 2 month shots.  A friend of hers responded "Good job not being selfish and exposing!"

I'd have to post a comment such as, " gee, so your family goes out and brings back all the germs to you and the baby you guys missed out on? How thoughtful"...

[KayCSmommy]

I hate how people are scared to get sick... I don't understand it! Getting sick actually healthy!! When you get sick and then recover that means your body is doing its job and is healthy its when you get sick and can't get better that you should worry! Do people really expect to never get sick...? I don't understand the fear of getting sick even with a simple cold. That being said man the commenter on your friends profile would hate me because in the first two months of my son's life I did nothing but travel, and enjoy my maternity leave. I rarely stayed home in fact because my fridge died while I was giving birth to my son we went straight from the hospital to Sears to buy a new fridge and then straight from Sears to a grocery store, and my son was 10 days old on his first camping/boating trip. Since I breast fed my son I never went anywhere without him, he was in public twice as much as being at home. My son is the healthiest kid in my family, but we also eat good and wash our hands a lot as well.

[jules33]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I have REALLY had a hard time with keeping my mouth shut about not only vaccination choices without education first...but about stopping BF with the lame excuse of "I wasn't producing enough milk because my baby wanted to nurse every 1 1/2 hours when he was an infant."!!!! I was just telling someone today that is pregnant (she just found out) that BF and the choices I make are not "easy" or even remotely easy...they are made because I believe in sacrificing of myself for my childrens' health. Sadly the pediatricians of today are mostly told that formula is just as good as breastmilk and if your baby is crying at 1 1/2 hours after nursing...then you just are not "producing enough milk". DS2 was born in June and I have since had several friends who have had babies ~ 3 of which have ALL gone onto formula after just BF for 6 weeks because they claim they were not producing enough milk. Either our ability to produce milk is going out the window or people want to be lazy and expect a baby to go 3 hours in between feedings. I have TOTALLY had to sit on my tongue to keep from blurting out ~ YOU ARE BEING LAZY, your milk production is not the problem. I even had one friend who had a pediatrician tell her that her baby was taking in too much milk (she BF and switched to formula) so to put the baby on a "restriction" aka diet!!!! at 3 months of age.

I hope you never have to go through anything as devastating as not producing enough milk, and on top of it, having people say things like this to make you feel more awful than you already do.  Failure to produce enough milk is a VERY REAL problem.  I had a home birth, eat an impeccable diet, had plenty of postpartum support, nursed every hour, pumped every two hours around the clock, took a ridiculous amount of herbs and lactogenic supplements, and did not produce enough milk to feed my baby.  I was so bullied by people with ideas like yours and by my LC, that I ignored my pediatrician's advice to supplement with formula.  I suffered because of this, and much worse, my son suffered.  After joining a support group, I have come across hundreds of moms with stories just like mine.  Formula saved my son's life.  I am not lazy.  Milk production was my problem.   You should be grateful that you were able to breastfeed, not full of hatred from those of us who could not.  If you want to continue to spew these ignorant, arrogant, smug thoughts, take it to the "Lactavist" forums.
 

[Turquesa]

The fastest way to shut these people up is to ask for raw numbers.  Excuse me, could you quantify for me to the exact percentage point the chance my two-month-old has of getting diptheria?  What about spreading it?

What is her chance--again to the exact percentage--of my baby spreading tetanus to other children?  (Those trick questions are especially fun, tee-hee!   ) 

If they can't answer, or if they can only say "you never know and herd immunity and blah blah blah," you know they're talking out of thin air.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Not exposing…. 

If you feel so inclined, you could let her know that the likelihood of a a newborn exposing anyone to any VPDs is close to nil.  Give her the rates on Diptheria and the like in the USA if you so desire.    

Of course, all of this is just FB drama…..I am not sure i would post any of it…but you can vent here!!!!!

Welcome!

[Taximom5]

Jules, it's certainly possible that, for whatever reason, you were unable to produce enough milk to feed your baby. You say you did everything right, and I believe you.

I also believe we are lucky to have formula for moms who can't produce enough milk.

But there is usually (not always) a clear reason WHY a mom can't produce enough milk, such as improper latch-on, not nursing enough, not getting enough rest, dehydration, having undiagnosed illness that inhibits milk production (such as celiac disease, hashimoto's thyroiditis, diabetes, and other autoimmune disorders), having been given medication that inhibits milk production (like magnesium sulfate), even stress can be a major factor for some women.

Another issue is separation of mom and baby.  I produced way less milk when I put my baby to sleep in a crib.  Sleeping with my baby and wearing the baby instead of pushing him in a stroller = instant 30% increase in milk production. 

I'm not writing this to imply that you didn't do any of this. I'm writing it for the benefit of any reader who assumes it's common and normal for a healthy nursing mom to not produce enough milk for her baby.

[Lookingup]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

hahaha, sometimes I have to literally FORCE myself to step away from facebook and not respond to some comments... usually a little after I'm glad I didn't make any comment, it's just not worth it... 

  And it's true, I usually regret the times I don't keep my mouth shut when I respond to really asinine comments on FB. The resulting mess just isn't worth it.  (Last time, it was a bunch of people criticizing home birth and saying "babies should only be born in hospitals, and if they're not, the parents should be arrested for child abuse."    The vax ones get me *insane* and my husband begs me to STEP AWAY, STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER.  :) 

People are entitled to say what they want, but I get ya... it's hard to let it bounce off. What I've noticed generally in life is that the people who have the strongest and most secure arguments?... they generally don't have to make them.  The folks that make a lot of grandiose statements on Facebook and the like are feeling insecure.  And you don't want to get into an argument there, ya know?

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by jules33 

I hope you never have to go through anything as devastating as not producing enough milk, and on top of it, having people say things like this to make you feel more awful than you already do.  Failure to produce enough milk is a VERY REAL problem.  I had a home birth, eat an impeccable diet, had plenty of postpartum support, nursed every hour, pumped every two hours around the clock, took a ridiculous amount of herbs and lactogenic supplements, and did not produce enough milk to feed my baby.  I was so bullied by people with ideas like yours and by my LC, that I ignored my pediatrician's advice to supplement with formula.  I suffered because of this, and much worse, my son suffered.  After joining a support group, I have come across hundreds of moms with stories just like mine.  Formula saved my son's life.  I am not lazy.  Milk production was my problem.   You should be grateful that you were able to breastfeed, not full of hatred from those of us who could not.  If you want to continue to spew these ignorant, arrogant, smug thoughts, take it to the "Lactavist" forums.
 

If you READ my post you can see that it obviously does not apply to you ~ expecting a baby to go 3 hours between feedings IS lazy...but obviously not you. Do I think it happens ~ yes ~ do I think it happens to almost everyone I know ~ NO. I do believe that the option of formula is considered far too often and recommended by pediatricians without a second thought. Do I think it is sometimes needed ~ of course I do. But then again...you can apply what I said directly to you or take it for what it was...a vent that there are persons out there that simply do not try...