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Why French Parents Are Superior... - Page 2

post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/familyadvice/9011303/French-mothers-dont-have-it-all-their-own-way.html

 

 

 

Meh, what ever works.  What's next?  First the Chinese now French?  I bet the Finnish are next!

 

Maybe it'll go more "Wild Kingdom" - "Gorilla Mothering - What you can learn" - after all, their kids always eat their veggies and never talk back! 

 

 

post #22 of 74


Oh... I want one that doesn't talk back.  Or roll her eyes.  Damn my stupid mexican american upbringing!  Though I do have fond memories of chanklas (sandals) flying through the air at me when I got mouthy!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nstewart View Post

 

Maybe it'll go more "Wild Kingdom" - "Gorilla Mothering - What you can learn" - after all, their kids always eat their veggies and never talk back! 

 

 



 

post #23 of 74

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

First the Chinese now French?  



No, first it was the Yequana.  winky.gif  

 

 

post #24 of 74


You just made me google that!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 



No, first it was the Yequana.  winky.gif  

 

 



 

post #25 of 74

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post


You just made me google that!
 



 


Me too!
 

 

post #26 of 74

Sounds like the 50s to me maybe? Don't coddle the baby, let them cry a bit, children seen and not heard?

post #27 of 74

I'm surprised at the negativity towards this article. Maybe the stupid title draws on our mothering insecurities? I'm not going to run out and buy the book but there is definitely some wisdom to what she says.

 

The absence of delayed gratification means that kids are being instantly gratified and too much of this, for adults or kids, is detrimental to character growth. I don't need to create situations where my kids need to wait- life provides enough practice- I just don't want to get in the way of natural opportunities to learn patience, sharing,perserverance etc. Delayed gratification is not the goal but a means to the end.

 

 

 

 

post #28 of 74


Why are you so annoyed that we're sick of being told every body else does it better?  All the articles I looked up said that French mothers are better.  Not "here are some great and helpful parenting tips".  Get me?   Screw it I know I'm not perfect and I know I need help in lots of areas. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post

I'm surprised at the negativity towards this article. Maybe the stupid title draws on our mothering insecurities? I'm not going to run out and buy the book but there is definitely some wisdom to what she says.

 

The absence of delayed gratification means that kids are being instantly gratified and too much of this, for adults or kids, is detrimental to character growth. I don't need to create situations where my kids need to wait- life provides enough practice- I just don't want to get in the way of natural opportunities to learn patience, sharing,perserverance etc. Delayed gratification is not the goal but a means to the end.

 

 

 

 



 

post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post

I'm surprised at the negativity towards this article. Maybe the stupid title draws on our mothering insecurities? I'm not going to run out and buy the book but there is definitely some wisdom to what she says.

 

The absence of delayed gratification means that kids are being instantly gratified and too much of this, for adults or kids, is detrimental to character growth. I don't need to create situations where my kids need to wait- life provides enough practice- I just don't want to get in the way of natural opportunities to learn patience, sharing,perserverance etc. Delayed gratification is not the goal but a means to the end.


I think it could be argued there's wisdom to the notion that it's worth teaching children to be patient, but I don't think there's much wisdom in what she says. It's really hard to take someone seriously who would use such a "stupid title" and make such sweeping generalizations.  Without the French/American comparison she wouldn't have gotten as much coverage or have the potential to sell as many books.   It just seems like a money grab to me.    

post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post

I'm surprised at the negativity towards this article. Maybe the stupid title draws on our mothering insecurities? I'm not going to run out and buy the book but there is definitely some wisdom to what she says.

 

What wisdom I saw in what she said was stuff that's been perfectly obvious to most parents I know for as long as I've been a parent, if not longer. The title didn't trigger any mothering insecurities on my part. (I absolutely have them, but the title didn't set them off, and most of the content didn't, either.) I just thought the article was stupid. She was presenting really, really basic ideas as some new, amazing revelation about parenting. Once I read it, I found myself wondering what the heck she'd been doing all along, honestly.

 

The absence of delayed gratification means that kids are being instantly gratified and too much of this, for adults or kids, is detrimental to character growth. I don't need to create situations where my kids need to wait- life provides enough practice- I just don't want to get in the way of natural opportunities to learn patience, sharing,perserverance etc. Delayed gratification is not the goal but a means to the end.

 

I know what delayed gratification means. But, ever since the study about the marshmallows (the one in the article - I'd remembered it as cookies, but it's the same one I heard about way back when), learning to delay gratification has been treated as a goal. I've heard people stressing about not being good parents, because they haven't been able to teach their kids to delay gratification...and some kids just have an immense amount of trouble learning to do it. In any case, that was one minor part of why I didn't like the article. I just think it was a piece of poorly written garbage.


ETA: And, the "French mothers are superior to American mothers" thing has no reason to bother me, anyway. I'm neither.

 

post #31 of 74

Yeah it's basic principles of parenting but I feel like most books out there rehash old principles- it's helpful for me to hear different voices "reviewing" the basics because I tend to fall into my same old rut really easily. It is really refreshing to read about loving parents setting firm boundaries because I am a little too permissive. 

 

The author is obviously trying to drum up some controversy and I understand how her assumptions might be off-putting but I really like the reminder that my kids are capable of doing more than I currently expect of them.

post #32 of 74

Having traveled all over and lived quite a few places, I've found the French to be the overall rudest people.

 

So the idea that they raise polite children seems laughable to me.

 

Just not buying it -- not one little bit.

 

There's is a difference between following the appropriate social conventions some place like a restaurant, and actually being a polite humane being.  To generalize about an entire group of people, the French tend to be good at the first, but not at the second.

 

And I think the second is more important.

 

I have managed to raise offspring who understand that other people have feelings, but at 4 they were fairly horrid in restaurants.

 

post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post

I'm surprised at the negativity towards this article. Maybe the stupid title draws on our mothering insecurities? I'm not going to run out and buy the book but there is definitely some wisdom to what she says.


 

Did you read the article?

 

Here is a quote from the second paragraph:

 

"A French infant is more likely than a British one to be left to “self-soothe” at night. Picky eaters are given no quarter. You don’t eat your tripes à la mode de Caen? You go to bed hungry. Tantrums are likely to be met with a smacked bottom (something the British middle-classes now regard with horror); schools favour learning by rote; and children are seen but not heard. Because their children are better behaved, mothers have more time to themselves in which to co-ordinate their lingerie and stay thin."

 

And you wonder why on mothering.commune, the bastion of natural family living, any one would be negative?

 

post #34 of 74

I've been thinking about this article (read it a few days ago, when a friend on Facebook linked to it), and this thread today. And...I think I object to the idea that any one method of parenting is "superior". My approach is pretty AP, although I was parenting that way long before I ever heard the term. But, despite the fact that my children have all been parented pretty much the same way, they've all responded to it differently. DD1 hated being nursed to sleep, and, in fact, wouldn't fall asleep while nursing, because she found it over-stimulating. My others all loved it. (The same applies to singing at bedtime, with the same child being an exception - at least until she was about two.) My kids have been on a spectrum, in terms of how well, long, etc. they slept in a bed sharing situation. They respond to attention differently, and require different kinds of attention. They have varying degrees of ability to delay gratification. They have differening levels of empathy. They have completely different social strengths and challenges. They have different requirements, in terms of eating patterns. They frequently respond differently to the same discipine techniques.

 

I have four living children. Three of them have the same two parents, and all four of them have the same mom. They've all been raised by the same mom since birth, and by the same parents for the last 10.5 years. And, yet, they all have wildly different personalities and strengths.I have to tweak my parenting approach for each of them. If there's no one size fits all approach to parenting four children in the same family, I find it a laughable to over-simplification to assert that one way is superior to another, when we're talking about entire countries, with all kinds of genetic traits, cultural differences, etc. involved...not to mention the sheer number of children we're talking about. It just makes no sense to me at all.

 

I think parents (American, Canadian, French, Chinese, Brazilian, etc. etc. etc.) need to remember that they/we are parents. I think it's important to consider (and sometimes reconsider) exactly what it is we're trying to accomplish on our parenting journey, both in terms of what we're hoping our adult children will be like, and what kind of relationship we hope to have with them, both as adults and as children...and, to complicate it further, this all has to be considered within our specific cultural context! But, I think it's asinine to assert that one country's way of parenting is "superior" to another country's way. We're all different. Our kids are different. We all need to figure out what works for our own families. I don't care what they do in France. I don't care what they do in the US. I don't even care what "they" do in Canada. I care what works for me, dh, ds1, dd1, ds2 and dd2.

post #35 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post


 

Did you read the article?

 

Here is a quote from the second paragraph:

 

"A French infant is more likely than a British one to be left to “self-soothe” at night. Picky eaters are given no quarter. You don’t eat your tripes à la mode de Caen? You go to bed hungry. Tantrums are likely to be met with a smacked bottom (something the British middle-classes now regard with horror); schools favour learning by rote; and children are seen but not heard. Because their children are better behaved, mothers have more time to themselves in which to co-ordinate their lingerie and stay thin."

 

And you wonder why on mothering.commune, the bastion of natural family living, any one would be negative?

 


Noooo- I didn't read that. The article that is linked must be a different version? What this one says is this: "It is why the French babies I meet mostly sleep through the night from two or three months old. Their parents don't pick them up the second they start crying, allowing the babies to learn how to fall back asleep". Not too harsh although not something I agree with. What I am questioning is the absolute rejection of the article by most people here. She has some great, basic ideas about parenting I was happy to be reminded of.

 

post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

I've been thinking about this article (read it a few days ago, when a friend on Facebook linked to it), and this thread today. And...I think I object to the idea that any one method of parenting is "superior". My approach is pretty AP, although I was parenting that way long before I ever heard the term. But, despite the fact that my children have all been parented pretty much the same way, they've all responded to it differently. DD1 hated being nursed to sleep, and, in fact, wouldn't fall asleep while nursing, because she found it over-stimulating. My others all loved it. (The same applies to singing at bedtime, with the same child being an exception - at least until she was about two.) My kids have been on a spectrum, in terms of how well, long, etc. they slept in a bed sharing situation. They respond to attention differently, and require different kinds of attention. They have varying degrees of ability to delay gratification. They have differening levels of empathy. They have completely different social strengths and challenges. They have different requirements, in terms of eating patterns. They frequently respond differently to the same discipine techniques.

 

I have four living children. Three of them have the same two parents, and all four of them have the same mom. They've all been raised by the same mom since birth, and by the same parents for the last 10.5 years. And, yet, they all have wildly different personalities and strengths.I have to tweak my parenting approach for each of them. If there's no one size fits all approach to parenting four children in the same family, I find it a laughable to over-simplification to assert that one way is superior to another, when we're talking about entire countries, with all kinds of genetic traits, cultural differences, etc. involved...not to mention the sheer number of children we're talking about. It just makes no sense to me at all.

 

I think parents (American, Canadian, French, Chinese, Brazilian, etc. etc. etc.) need to remember that they/we are parents. I think it's important to consider (and sometimes reconsider) exactly what it is we're trying to accomplish on our parenting journey, both in terms of what we're hoping our adult children will be like, and what kind of relationship we hope to have with them, both as adults and as children...and, to complicate it further, this all has to be considered within our specific cultural context! But, I think it's asinine to assert that one country's way of parenting is "superior" to another country's way. We're all different. Our kids are different. We all need to figure out what works for our own families. I don't care what they do in France. I don't care what they do in the US. I don't even care what "they" do in Canada. I care what works for me, dh, ds1, dd1, ds2 and dd2.



True. No one way of parenting is ever going to be the "right" way but the different perspective is really interesting to me. Probably because I am working on having more structure and routine in our own family.

post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandelionkid View Post


What I am questioning is the absolute rejection of the article by most people here. She has some great, basic ideas about parenting I was happy to be reminded of.

 



Well, I'm rejecting the article, because it's poorly written crap. I had trouble discerning what basic ideas of parenting she was even trying to put across, except for "be a parent" (duh) and the value of routine and structure. I think the type of routine and structure described is overkill, personally. But, these ideas are things I revisit and think about fairly regularly, anyway.

 

In any case, if she wanted to talk about basic parenting ideas, good on her. She could have tossed all the culture war crap (including the random, pointless dig at "snotty Parisiens", which, imo, kind of invalidated everything she was saying - "oh, French parents are so awesome that they raise children who become adults I can't stand" is a weird message to me), the rampant generalizing, and the insistence on taking her own utter cluelessness as the cultural norm of the USA. I don't know that many American parents irl, but none of them fit into the bizarre "American parent" box she was using in her article.

post #38 of 74
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post


 

Did you read the article?

 

Here is a quote from the second paragraph:

 

"A French infant is more likely than a British one to be left to “self-soothe” at night. Picky eaters are given no quarter. You don’t eat your tripes à la mode de Caen? You go to bed hungry. Tantrums are likely to be met with a smacked bottom (something the British middle-classes now regard with horror); schools favour learning by rote; and children are seen but not heard. Because their children are better behaved, mothers have more time to themselves in which to co-ordinate their lingerie and stay thin."

 

And you wonder why on mothering.commune, the bastion of natural family living, any one would be negative?

 



 

That's not the article I posted.  That's from the article Imakcerka posted, and it provides some good, humorous perspective from a British mum. 

post #39 of 74


Yeah, I was trying to point out that there was numerous articles pertaining to this "Idea".  I picked that one because it's not from the US.  I'm sure if I kept looking I could find something from each country where the moms are super pleased with once again being told they suck. 

 

I've never found the french that I've met to be rude. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post


 



 

That's not the article I posted.  That's from the article Imakcerka posted, and it provides some good, humorous perspective from a British mum. 



 

post #40 of 74

It took me a minute to dig it up, but there was a similar article that was popular when my oldest was a toddler, so this more recent article isn't exactly groundbreaking material.  

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/3632992/Is-Maman-mean-or-magnifique.html

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