Just another Vax Vent...

[KayCSmommy]

I am just annoyed because of a discussion that went on in a college Anthropology class I had today. The teacher was explaining to us that diseases like TB and Pertussis have come from animals that people have had close contact with as either pets or food. He was telling us this was also how we got our first vaccine. Then the guy that sits next to me started going off about how people don't vaccinate their kids, and how stupid these people are. Then he states that there was an epidemic outbreak of Pertussis last year (but I am assuming he means in 2010) that "that killed 17-19 babies" and how this was going on in the rich neighborhoods of California and how they are being allowed to not vaccinate their kids has caused this epidemic. This is in Utah where last spring we had a outbreak of the measles caused by a family who traveled to Poland. Anyway some people in the class were asking "Why doesn't California mandate that all kids have vaccines?? Why are people in California not vaccinating their kids?? When the teacher told the class that Utah doesn't mandate everyone have vaccines either, the people in the class started to freak. I just sat in my seat grinning think dang they would probably  maul me if they knew I don't vaccinate my children. My whole class was bashing people who don't vax their children for like 15-20 mins, and when someone mentioned that people who don't vaccinate their children should be charged with Child Abuse and have their children removed from them, I had enough and collected my things and left. I was very upset! I still am! I wish people were not so ignorant to non-main stream ideals, and more accepting of others lifestyles. I have had other classes where vaccines have come up especially last spring, but today the entire class of about 50 people were bashing and being rude about it. Thank you for listening I just needed to vent~

[Jennyanydots]

I have just been thinking about this same thing- that's what made me read your post just now.  I don't get the wall that comes down in so many people's minds when vaccines come up.  I have 2 kids who are vaccinated and a baby who isn't.  I'm not "anti-vax," rather, what I've learned about vaccines since my daughters were little has made me wary, and I'm still trying very hard to decide what I think.  I don't know if our little guy will remain unvaccinated or whether we'll be selective... anyway, my point is that, like myself, from what I've seen most of the so called "anti-vax" folks aren't that at all- they're just aware that vaccines do have risks, and they're not convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks.  I rarely hear anyone talking about big conspiracies- unless you count the lament that it's hard to find unbiased info because of all the money in the system...

On the other hand, there are so many people who will savagely attack anyone who asks questions!  Reasonable questions, too- like "what's in the shot you want to give my baby?"  These defenders of vaccination allow no room for questions or differentiation/prioritization of vaccines.  Not long ago, a "friend" of mine from law school posted a diatribe on facebook about parents who choose not vaccinate, and the comments in the thread were filled with hopes that those parents would have their children taken from them, that their babies would become sick and die... and just an overwhelming sense that avoiding even one vaccine threatens the lives of everyone else.  The rage and contempt were horrifying.  

I'm sorry you had to sit through that.  You must have been torn between the desire to try and open your eyes and the need to avoid being attacked.  Awful feeling.

[tillymonster]

Wow that would really piss me off if some d-bag got a law in the books to take away my kiddo for not vaxing. But it's totally cool to spank your kids. No laws against that!!!

I'm in CA and guess what? I didn't vax. I also am not vaxed. I tell people proudly that I won't be until 2. Well she's 2 and I still don't want to. Let's hope I didn't make a terrible decision. It was how I was raised I guess. I really don't agree with pharma companies doing as they please with drugs these days. That includes most certainly, vaccinations.

I say drop the class! Ugh sorry you had to listen to those ignorant people mama!

[emmy526]

I think i would have stood up and started lecturing the class of the basics of freedoms here in the USA..and how gov is trying to take those away.  And the freedoms to refuse vaccines if a parent so chooses to do.   To take away an individual's(parent's)  basic freedom of right to decide on a medical procedure here  in the USA,   is akin to communism.   And that would have started a whole different debate in your class, too.  

Then you should pull your professor aside and inform him the smallpox vax was the first vaccine....did he even mention Edward Jenner? And as soon as the first guy opened his mouth and spilt forth the biased vermin he was brainwashed into believing,  is when i would have said something then and there to quash any more diatribe. 

[rachelsmama]

What was the professor's reaction to it?  If there's a chance that the prof isn't radically pro-vax, but just didn't know how to control the classroom you could talk to him about your frustrations and perhaps suggest doing a small segment about propaganda, and why so much of the population is susceptible to it.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

What was the professor's reaction to it?  If there's a chance that the prof isn't radically pro-vax, but just didn't know how to control the classroom you could talk to him about your frustrations and perhaps suggest doing a small segment about propaganda, and why so much of the population is susceptible to it.

also in the propaganda segment,  it should include brainwashing by government as well...

[KayCSmommy]

I wish that I could drop the class, but its the only class that I need for my Social Work Program. So if I drop it I am wasting my time in my other four classes, because I need this class. I am new to this school, and the area the school is. I live 60 miles from where I go to school, and I really don't want to make enemies; or I would have gotten up and defended the non-vaxing community. I just felt like I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Who knows how many other people in the classroom were also non-vaxers, because I have met many others in my area. People just either don't care or don't think before they speak! The person who was claiming non-vaxers as child abusers really made me mad because some people can't vaccinate their children! Are those people also Child Abusers! I was dying to stand up and say that to her!! It was all I could do to get up and leave like nothing was wrong!!

[KayCSmommy]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

What was the professor's reaction to it?  If there's a chance that the prof isn't radically pro-vax, but just didn't know how to control the classroom you could talk to him about your frustrations and perhaps suggest doing a small segment about propaganda, and why so much of the population is susceptible to it.

My professor is an elderly gentlemen who served in Vietnam, and he told the class that he didn't understand why people didn't vaccinate themselves or their children. He told us he thinks they should start vaxing our children/population with the small pox vaccine, and that every vaccine that they give the people in the military should be given to everyone. I would have loved to tell the guy next to me that some of the information he was saying was wrong, and I wanted to tell the person who was though people who don't VAX are child abusers a piece of my mind. I was also amazingly surprised at how many people didn't realize that you had the option to not vaccinate their children! Especially after last spring where the non-VAX family who brought back the measles from Poland where bashed so harshly for 3-5 months last year.

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 1:51pm

[nia82]

I wouldn't engaged either. Not worth it. That professor has some seriously crazy point of views. He scares me. 

[BeckyBird]

Idea......print up a vaccine info packet, and on the last day, hand it out to all of the students. Or send out an anonymous email to everyone in the class. Help spread the word!

[japonica]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

What was the professor's reaction to it?  If there's a chance that the prof isn't radically pro-vax, but just didn't know how to control the classroom you could talk to him about your frustrations and perhaps suggest doing a small segment about propaganda, and why so much of the population is susceptible to it.

 I was wondering where the deal was with the professor. I used to TA seminars when I was in grad school...in Anthropology. We had some pretty heated discussions, but even if I disagreed with what was being argued (or conversely was secretly cheering on some of my students), my job was to rein everyone in and moderate the group. Otherwise it's just a bashing or free for all.

I agree that he sounds like a bit of a nutter. My university always had anonymous prof ratings at the end of every term where you could also write your comments on the back of the forms and these get typed up by the dept and sent to the prof. You could also write the dept. a letter, even anonymously if need be (although it would have more credibility if you sign it obviously). If it's just an elective and you'll never set foot in that dept. again then it's not as big a deal as if you're an Anthro major or minor. Then you'd have to tread more carefully unfortunately.

[Taximom5]

I would wonder if Big Pharm is now recruiting anthropology professors to indoctrinate the next generation;  add this to the number of Pharma ads everywhere, and you'd wonder how anyone could reach adulthood without believing in the necessity to buy every pharm product available.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?pagewanted=all

Harvard Medical School in Ethics Quandary

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/18/Harvard-Medical-Students-Rebel-Against-Big-Pharma-Ties.aspx

Harvard Medical Students Rebel Against Big Pharma Ties

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/harvard-docs-punished-undisclosed-pharma-ties/2011-07-05

Harvard Docs Punished For Undisclosed Pharma Ties

http://www.pharmalot.com/2010/02/harvard-med-school-hires-lilly-exec-as-research-chief/

Harvard Med School Hires Lilly Exec As Research Chief

Try googling your professor's CV and see if there are any ties to the pharmaceutical industry anywhere. Is his professorship funded by a grant from a pharmaceutical company to the university? To what organizations and foundations does he belong?

Edited by Taximom5 - 2/11/12 at 1:37pm

[purslaine]

I share your frustration...

…..but take what you hear in the class on this issue with a grain of salt.  

You are in class, in all probability, with a bunch of 19-22 year olds who have very little life experience, and are getting riled up with a certain amount of mob mentality.  

Very few of this people have kids - none of them researched the issue at all or know what they are talking about.  Some may mellow when they have kids and realise what a difficult decision this is.  

If you say anything al all, I would focus on parental rights to determine choices for their kids unless they are abusive - and define abusive. good examples might include: breastfeeding - should a child be taken away from its parents because the mother refuses to even try breastfeeding?  Of course not!  And yet  statistically, not breastfeeding is much more likely to produce illness than not vaccinating.  Smoking would be another great example.

Edited by purslaine - 2/11/12 at 11:01am

[KayCSmommy]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I share your frustration...

…..but take what you hear in the class on this issue with a grain of salt.  

You are in class, in all probability, with a bunch of 19-22 year olds who have very little life experience, and are getting riled up with a certain amount of mob mentality.  

Very few of this people have kids - none of them researched the issue at all or know what they are talking about.  Some may mellow when they have kids and realise what a difficult decision this is.  

If you say anything al all, I would focus on parental rights to determine choices for their kids unless they are abusive - and define abusive. good examples might include: breastfeeding - should a child be taken away from its parents because the mother refuses to even try breastfeeding?  Of course not!  And yet  statistically, not breastfeeding is much more likely to produce illness than not vaccinating.  Smoking would be another great example.

Yes, this is Anthropology 1000 so it’s a lower level class, and full of younger people.  I am not going into Anthropology but into Social Work, but one Anthropology class is required for graduation in the program, and I wasn’t able to take this class at my other college. I just sat and listened keeping an open mind at what the class and teacher were discussing (there was no opposition, except in my head). It wasn’t until the bashing started (where people were calling parents who don’t vax child abusers, and saying that un-vaxed children should not be allowed in schools, parks, churches etc.) that I got upset and was fed up and took my things and left class. I am not familiar with this city or the culture of this city; because this is the first time I have ever been here (I have been going to school here for four weeks). My school is 60 miles from where I live, and so it really different to me, and I don’t want to make enemies here, and that is mostly why I didn’t say anything in class, that and people have been less tolerant of non-vaxers since the measles episode last spring. I am sick of having to defend my decision to not vaccinate my child though; I don’t feel I should have too. I hate that the medical community and big pharma make people who don’t vax look like a bunch of uneducated crazy people. That is what probably is the most frustrating and that is what my class was discussing when I left is how uneducated non-vaxers are and how they just take the word of a bunch of articles on the internet. If only they knew right….

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 1:50pm