Where did the idea come from that little kids are better off NOT at home with their moms? - Page 8

[Pookietooth]

Actually, publicly funded daycare first started in the 40s, during WWII, so that women could build battleships and bombers. And Head Start was definitely around in the 60s because my brother went to one then (it was probably right around 1959 or so actually). And I think Montessori predates that even -- goes back to around 100 years ago. Wealthy women often hired nurses or nannies to care for their babies, who then continued to care for the children until school age. Of course they were at home, but barely had a relationship with their own mothers. So it's not really that recent.

Originally Posted by pek64 

Wasn't it on MDC that I read this? Perhaps not.
It started with inner city kids from working parents being behind those who had a stay at home parent. (1970's)
So, preschools were created as part of the head start program.
Parents who could afford it wanted preschools for their kids, too, so the preschool business boomed.(late 70's)
Then programs started competing for tuition dollars (or the local currency), and preschools began advertising how they could di so much more than both other preschools and parents.(1980's)
Enough time passed with those messages bombarding parents, and
. Parents begin to believe they cannot compete with preschools.
I wish I had the source info. I'll see if I can find it again.

[mommy2clara]

I'm a preschool teacher, and I DO believe there is enormous value in sending children to preschool 2-4 days a week for 2-3 hours, starting two school years before the school year they are kindergarten eligible.  I hope that people who choose to home school their preschoolers are as well-versed in constructivist curriculum, as they surely are in K-12 curriculum.  Most of the kids who attend the preschool where I teach have SAHP's or are cared for by grandparents.  I don't think they're lazy or have low opinions of their own ability to stimulate their children.  On the contrary, I think they're doing what is best for their children.  Heck, even AS a preschool teacher, if I was able to stay home with my DD, you better believe I'd be sending her to preschool once she reached the aforementioned age.

[LLQ1011]

Originally Posted by mommy2clara 

I'm a preschool teacher, and I DO believe there is enormous value in sending children to preschool 2-4 days a week for 2-3 hours, starting two school years before the school year they are kindergarten eligible.  I hope that people who choose to home school their preschoolers are as well-versed in constructivist curriculum, as they surely are in K-12 curriculum.  Most of the kids who attend the preschool where I teach have SAHP's or are cared for by grandparents.  I don't think they're lazy or have low opinions of their own ability to stimulate their children.  On the contrary, I think they're doing what is best for their children.  Heck, even AS a preschool teacher, if I was able to stay home with my DD, you better believe I'd be sending her to preschool once she reached the aforementioned age.

I feel like a few hours a day a few days a week is really beneficial. I used to nanny for a mom who had her son in Montessori for 8 to 9 hours  and then I would come and stay for 5 hours until he fell asleep. She was  a stay at home mom. I honestly have no idea what she was doing. She would always leave.

[Pookietooth]

Preschool was invented, as others have said, to have a place to put kids while their parents worked outside the home. The curriculum was just a justification for it, basically stating that parents were not doing a good enough job with their kids. And your statement is an example of this -- that the parent must not know enough about early childhood development to provide an appropriate environment for their children. Is there a reason that you feel this way? Do you really think it's true?

Originally Posted by mommy2clara 

I'm a preschool teacher, and I DO believe there is enormous value in sending children to preschool 2-4 days a week for 2-3 hours, starting two school years before the school year they are kindergarten eligible.  I hope that people who choose to home school their preschoolers are as well-versed in constructivist curriculum, as they surely are in K-12 curriculum.  Most of the kids who attend the preschool where I teach have SAHP's or are cared for by grandparents.  I don't think they're lazy or have low opinions of their own ability to stimulate their children.  On the contrary, I think they're doing what is best for their children.  Heck, even AS a preschool teacher, if I was able to stay home with my DD, you better believe I'd be sending her to preschool once she reached the aforementioned age.

[Mulvah]

I would like to know what things are taught in preschool that make it more valuable than being at home with a parent.  I am not for or against, I'm merely curious.

[SweetSilver]

While preschool can be useful, can be fun and helpful, human civilization has gotten on just fine without it.  We invented/discovered *fire* and *wheels* and *steam engines* and *booze* .  We have crossed oceans in reed boats, navigated thousands of miles down the west coast of the American continents, invented calendars, chocolate, sugar, all without the benefit of preschool.  Paper, noodles, fireworks.

Modern parents might need preschools, for sure, depending on their situation.  Preschool can be fun for kids, and in some instances, unfortunately, preschool is indeed better than being at home.  But in general children do not *need* preschool.  

Parents are *qualified* to raise their children without putting them in preschool if that is what they wish.  (And, here's the shocking opinion straight from me: they don't even need a "preschool education" at home!!!  But that's an entirely separate debate.)  Someone pointed out a few posts back about this being a greater issue of the establishments distrust of parents to make the right decisions for their kids, and I absolutely agree.

[pek64]

This is *not* where I got the info I gave earlier, but I found it looking for the other, and find it interesting.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CF8QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.k12academics.com%2Fsystems-formal-education%2Fpreschool-education%2Fhistory-preschool-united-states&ei=bFVqUP-QJ6PQ2AWbrYH4Aw&usg=AFQjCNHlbhB9CuqspPlz74_OXv6GLUl4EQ

[Mulvah]

Edited by Mulvah - 10/7/12 at 1:57pm

[mommy2clara]

If you home school K-12 kids, you research the curriculum and you teach it.  Likewise, preschool also has a curriculum.  Constructivism and Montessori are probably the most widely known/used.  All I'm saying is that a homeschooling parent should be implementing one of these curriculums same as they would research and implement K-12 curriculum.  The reason I would send my DD to preschool even if I stayed home, is because I just love the atmosphere of a well-run preschool classroom implementing constructivism.   I would be curious to know how many people responding here, have observed such an environment.  Maybe everyone has, I don't know.   I just think you need to know what you're arguing against.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by mommy2clara 

If you home school K-12 kids, you research the curriculum and you teach it.  Likewise, preschool also has a curriculum.  Constructivism and Montessori are probably the most widely known/used.  All I'm saying is that a homeschooling parent should be implementing one of these curriculums same as they would research and implement K-12 curriculum.  The reason I would send my DD to preschool even if I stayed home, is because I just love the atmosphere of a well-run preschool classroom implementing constructivism.   I would be curious to know how many people responding here, have observed such an environment.  Maybe everyone has, I don't know.   I just think you need to know what you're arguing against.

Please tell us exactly what you believe a young child needs and why. Then I'll know exactly what I want to argue against.

Why does this have to be an argument, anyway?

Edited to add : You made an assumption that homeschoolers use a curriculum for k-12. Unschoolers do not use curriculums, as such.

[mamaofthree]

interesting... i don't think that being home with a preschool aged child needs a full on curriculum. life, is all they need. they help make lunch, play in a sand box, go to the library, collect rocks while on a walk, draw with chalk on the driveway, make cookies, listen to stories. i worked in a daycare/preschool waaaaay back in the day, before kids and nursing school. and i have to say that that is what the preschool did. except no cooking or food handling and there were forced naps. 

i don't think preschool is something all children need or all families want to use. it is great it is there for people to use if they need to, but i think most all parents can do as good a job with their littles one, if not a better job then any preschool by just being present with their kids. i mean how did the child learn to talk, walk, go on the toilet, learn body parts, learn songs, etc. they learned them at home from their folks. i don't think there is a magical age when you (the parent) become incapable of teaching your children, i think we are told we are, but i don't believe it. i guess that is why i homeschool. LOL

[Philothea]

I read through the mothering forums for a long time before I became a member. I finally decided to join because I strongly admired how respectful every member was towards another member. I also loved how much support moms gave each other on this site. With all the mommy wars on and offline, this place seemed like a place of refuge. To come upon this thread has truly saddened me. The OP I feel was grossly misunderstood and then she was attacked by other posts. She wrote looking for support (on an issue which I believe came from her problem with the establishment and cultural mindset pushing an idea that "you're not good enough as a parent to raise your kid at home; you need to send them to school.") and she clearly stated she didn't want to argue, but she received barely any support and instead people became extremely defensive and some even started attacking her.
Perhaps,members could you be more considerate and if you don't agree, maybe could you start your own thread on the topic? I just don't want to see mothering turn into yet another place where a mommy who's in need of a good vent, instead gets a bunch of backlash.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by mommy2clara 

 I hope that people who choose to home school their preschoolers are as well-versed in constructivist curriculum, as they surely are in K-12 curriculum.

Nope, I had to google it .

Originally Posted by mommy2clara  Heck, even AS a preschool teacher, if I was able to stay home with my DD, you better believe I'd be sending her to preschool once she reached the aforementioned age.

Um, ok...I believe you. But as the mom of an 8yo and a 6yo I'm satisfied with the outcome of "homeschooling" my children through the preschool years .

Also, sometimes our parenting and/or educational philosophies/ideals do not fit our child or otherwise do not work for us the way we envisioned.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by mommy2clara 

If you home school K-12 kids, you research the curriculum and you teach it.  

Most homeschoolers I know don't teach to "the" curriculum. They use various resources, in various subject areas, which sometimes include subject-specific packaged curriculum. They don't implement "the" curriculum.

Likewise, preschool also has a curriculum.  Constructivism and Montessori are probably the most widely known/used.  All I'm saying is that a homeschooling parent should be implementing one of these curriculums same as they would research and implement K-12 curriculum.  

Using "should" is a value judgment on other people's parenting. Why "should" we be implementing a curriculum with our preschool aged children? I certainly never used one with ds1, and he was more than ready for public school - academically, socially, and in terms of life skills - when he started kindergarten.

The reason I would send my DD to preschool even if I stayed home, is because I just love the atmosphere of a well-run preschool classroom implementing constructivism.   I would be curious to know how many people responding here, have observed such an environment.  Maybe everyone has, I don't know.   I just think you need to know what you're arguing against.

It's great that you love that atmosphere. What if your daughter doesn't love it?

I haven't read this thread, except for the last few posts, in a long time. But, I don't remember all that many people arguing against preschool. I remember a lot of people arguing against the idea that preschool is necessary. Those are two completely different things. I only put one of my kids in preschool, and I make no bones about the fact that I did it for me. He enjoyed it well enough, although he was hell on wheels when he came home each time, but I needed some peace and quiet to read to dd1, and that's the real reason he was there. It was a nice preschool, and he had fun, but he didn't learn anything he couldn't have learned at home.

[erigeron]

I'm genuinely interested in what mommy2clara thinks are the benefits of sending kids to preschool. In her post she says that she thinks there are big benefits to kids and she would do it with her own kids, but doesn't really elaborate. This may be kind of off-topic, in which case I can withdraw it, but I'm curious about that elaboration. How would you describe the benefits of preschool to a friend who was on the fence about whether or not to do it?

[tpase]

Plarka, I tend to agree with you. I think and believe (looking back at my own upbringing by a SAHM with a master's degree..no idiot) that mom (and dad) are the very best teachers a child can possibly have.

The notion that a teacher at a pre-school is going to "teach" you (below age 5-6 year old) things that you cannot is ludicrous. I understand accessing this govt sponsored program if you are bored of your kids, fundamentally would like to be doing something else, or have psychological issues and the children are better off in daycare...but if none of these apply to you, how can you justify carting your children off?

I had a career that is still my burning passion, but until my kids are ready for formal education in a school setting, I am the very best teacher they can possibly have. Arguments regarding socialization is bogus: unless you live under a rock and your children see noone else but you. Socialization occurs everywhere, and in fact, placing kids for extended hours (by that I mean anything beyond an hour or two) in the presence of other unsupervised (relative to the supervision of an attentive loving mother) peers is terrible.

When we put our older one into a preKG program we were shocked by how easily we could identify the "lifers" ....the kids that had been attending daycare since they were two.

With my second one, I will wait just as long (age 5) until she goes to "school". My career can wait. The quality of my child's early development is more important to me, and better served with them being with me, as they explore the world around them.

Of course, since this sometimes can become a  touchy subject, I have to state that those accessing daycare options because they have no other options - like, single moms - are doing their very best and this comment does not apply to them.

But yes, I do agree with you OP. It is rather ridiculous.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by tpase 

The notion that a teacher at a pre-school is going to "teach" you (below age 5-6 year old) things that you cannot is ludicrous. I understand accessing this govt sponsored program if you are bored of your kids, fundamentally would like to be doing something else, or have psychological issues and the children are better off in daycare...but if none of these apply to you, how can you justify carting your children off?

I don't know if you meant it this way, but this comes across as amazingly condescending. I was lucky enough, when I was a WOHM, to have family available for childcare...enough of them that I was never stuck (primary care was my MIL or my sister, at various times...and I had my mom for occasional back-up, and my aunt and uncle even jumped in once). If I hadn't had that, I'd have had to put ds1 in daycare or preschool.

I wasn't bored of him.

I wasn't in a place where I fundamentally would have liked to do something else.

I didn't have psychological issues making it better for my son to be in daycare.

What I had was the only steady income in our house, and a strong need to keep a roof over our head and food on the table. Daycare and preschool aren't just about psychological problems or a desire to be somewhere else. Sometimes, people have no other options. I'm really grateful that I didn't have to go that route, for a variety of reasons (one of them logistical - I got around on foot and on the bus, and fitting in a stop at a daycare/preschool would have been very difficult), but I'm not going to look down on people who do need to.

I agree that all the reasons you cited are legitimate, but there are other reasons, too.

ETA: Okay - I read the rest of your comment, and saw what you said about single moms. I find it really strange that you put necessity at the end of your post like an afterthought, but I'm glad you at least mentioned it.

[tpase]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

ETA: Okay - I read the rest of your comment, and saw what you said about single moms. I find it really strange that you put necessity at the end of your post like an afterthought, but I'm glad you at least mentioned it.

My reading of the original post suggested that the OP's intent was to discuss why parents would imagine that sending a child younger than school age (kindergarten/1st grade) to "pre-school" would benefit them (the children) more than the attention and instruction they receive from their mother/father. I don't believe she (or I, for that matter) are questioning the purpose of "pre-school" for parents that cannot be home with their children for reasons that exclude peer-pressure or mere lack of foresight that the investment into these precious early years pay of richly into the future.

My opinion is that at these young ages, just a lot of love from mom/dad (as the case may be) is quite enough.

I am sorry to have offended you by my tone, and, you are right, my post did get bristly about situations where parents miss out on a very important window into the minds, hearts and lives of their children. It is a precious time, and really should be protected to the best of our ability. But not at the expense of survival, obviously! You are lucky you have family close by. For those that don't and cannot stay home with their young children, I do hope that they are able to find wonderful, nurturing environments outside the home for their children. But they are so very hard to find.

[mommy2clara]

I think I took this a little personally because myself and my colleagues are highly trained in early childhood education, and most of us have years of experience.  I think what we do is very important.  I took this thread as a bunch of people basically saying anyone could do our job, and my posts were a reaction to that.  I think this is mostly a difference in philosophy/beliefs about education, and I apologize for my use of the word "should," as that was indeed judgmental.

Project Construct/Constructivism is more of a philosophy or framework than it is a curriculum.  I mischaracterized it by using that word.  I want to be brief so I'm not going to give a primer on it, that's why we have Google.  My personal belief is that it's important for young children to have the influence of a trained teacher.  Project Construct is big on creating a classroom community, and I think that's important for kids' social development as it relates to interactions with other children, and intrinsic understanding of boundaries and limits.  I also like how child-influenced it is; basically the children voice what they want to learn about, and the teacher weaves learning opportunities into that.  

As for "that's great that YOU like it, but what if your daughter doesn't?" I DO hope my daughter likes Project Construct preschool when the time comes for her to go.  I'd love for her to come to the school where I teach, because the teacher is amazing, and her classroom always has a calm, yet highly engaged, buzz.  I currently do not teach general education preschool, instead I'm the lead teacher in a special education room for kids with pretty significant delays.  I'd love for her to be able to participate in my classroom or one like it because I think both she and my students would benefit from having her (or any typically developing kids) in there, but that's a different story.  I'd SAH with her if I could, but somebody's gotta pay the bills.  Home schooling isn't an option for us.  So, if she dislikes preschool, or public grade school for that matter, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  

[pek64]

Wow, mommy2clara, that preschool classroom you described also describes most, if not all, homeschools!