Where did the idea come from that little kids are better off NOT at home with their moms? - Page 9

[kaliki_kila]

I currently work for Head Start and have worked for NAEYC accredited preschools as well.  I have my B.A. in Child Development.  I don't believe children need preschool at all if they have a good home life where they are read to, play outdoors, help their parents cook, and all those other things that most good parents do with their children.  All of the studies I have read show that there is a very good benefit for children in families with a low socioeconomic status to attend preschool.  Their home life might include a lot of tv watching, some exposure to violence or neglect, poor nutrition, etc.  I know that is just a generalization and there are plenty of families with low socioeconomic status who are amazing parents and vice versa.  For middle and high-income families, there is either no benefit to attending preschool or sometimes a negative outcome.  I will be staying home with my children and not putting them in preschool.  I know that I can do so, so much better as a mom than anything I have ever seen any teacher do, including myself as a teacher.

[treeoflife3]

kids need more than outside play and cooking with parents.  Well, some don't, but plenty do.  preschool has been AWESOME for my kid who has a very very very high energy and has very very very high social needs.  she was bored out of her mind with me at home and I couldn't keep up.  Tons of outside time and arts and crafts and baking and cooking and going to play groups and every other thing MDC peeps like to talk about doing for kids... it wasn't enough.  Now she has a classroom full of other kids with a consistent schedule and multiple classrooms of kids outside on the playground.  She does everything at school she did with me but it is far more engaging because there are multiple adults and tons of kids for the whole day, and not just when someone comes over or we go out.

The idea that kids only need home and their core family is a bit short sighted.  We are social creatures.  Plenty of kids might do well staying at home with a parent and maybe a sibling or two, and only taking trips out to seeing more kids and adults, but there are just as many kids out there who can't stand the thought of being at home even half the day and want to be all up in any and every activity with as many other people as possible and maybe only an hour long nap mid day.

This whole snubbing preschool thing... some kids totally DO need it, and not because their family is poor or neglectful.  Most kids are not harmed by it and at least every center I was ever in as a kid, and the place my kid is at is play based and has TONS of free choice time for kids to decide what they want to do and learn about.  There seems to be this idea that preschool is forcing 3 and 4 year olds to sit in straight lines quietly with their hands crossed.  That is far from the truth of any place i've seen (although I'm sure that probably exists somewhere as an extreme minority and I'm going to guess physical discipline is required to get that kind of compliance all day from toddlers/preschoolers... ) every place I've seen was no different from my own home other than that their toys were a bit different and they had a different variety of books and there were more kids and, in the case of my kid's school, a WAY better sandbox.  School is able to keep the kids going nonstop because there are more adults in a classroom to set things up and clean up and more kids to interact with and find common energy with.

Sure, plenty of kids might not NEED preschool, but it's wrong to say NO KID doesn't.  Few kids will actually be HARMED and most kids will actually enjoy it, even if their preference might be more time at home.  This underlying hate for people who dare to do more than SAHM is obnoxious.

[pek64]

The underlying hate of those who DO stay home is obnoxious. The idea that kids NEED preschool is an attack on those who stay home. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[MeepyCat]

Deannaggg, your post encapsulates what I think is the ugliest of all myths about parenting - that it is only acceptable to try it if you can do it to some standard of perfection, and if you can anticipate any flaw in yourself or any failure of that standard, you absolutely should not have kids.

The standard that you are espousing (with your kids 24-7) is only achievable if you have the support of at least one other adult (usually another parent, who is not with the kids 24-7), or are independently wealthy, and do not have any serious health problems.

Children are deeply emotionally and spiritually important to the vast majority of people.  They are our connection to the future.  When we tell someone not to have children, I often think we're telling them not to hope in a certain way, and to abandon certain kinds of connection with the universe.  There are very few people so broken that they should forego hope.  Especially when there are so many ways that we can support parents, and that parents can support each other, so that children can thrive.

[pek64]

There is a vast range of parenting styles. Some may appear on the surface to be caring, and others distant. It is possible for the opposite to be true. I know one sahm who, in my opinion, ignores her children. I also know a wohm who, in my opinion, ignores her children. So that proves little. Only the children know what really goes on.

I do agree that it is sad when a parent sincerely wishes holidays away.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by pek64 

I do agree that it is sad when a parent sincerely wishes holidays away.

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other, you know, it's tough when your kid's usual routine just up and vanishes for a week and a half.  You really have to be ON as a parent, to put some kind of replacement structure in at home during that time (which may be the only time you get off work, IF you can even get all of it off), and the holidays don't make that easier.  Obviously, everything would go more smoothly if you could copy some of the daycare routine, but you probably also have visiting family, and holiday-related activities and obligations.  So while I know it would be best if we had a set breakfast time, planned a morning activity, then did lunch and nap at the same time as daycare does, it almost never works out.  We have visitors (some of whom have different lunch and nap schedules), and the kids are overexcited and I start out wanting to create happy childhood memories for them and end up just wanting the cat not to vomit where I can see it.

By the time we get to New Year's, I often think that what we need, as a family, is just to have a normal (for us) week.  A week with sugar free cereal, and our usual schedule, daycare included.

[pek64]

I can see your point. I just have always enjoyed holidays and wish everyone could enjoy them as much! May this year bring you the best holidays your family has had, with no extra effort from you!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

On the one hand, I agree.

On the other, you know, it's tough when your kid's usual routine just up and vanishes for a week and a half.  You really have to be ON as a parent, to put some kind of replacement structure in at home during that time (which may be the only time you get off work, IF you can even get all of it off), and the holidays don't make that easier.  Obviously, everything would go more smoothly if you could copy some of the daycare routine, but you probably also have visiting family, and holiday-related activities and obligations.  So while I know it would be best if we had a set breakfast time, planned a morning activity, then did lunch and nap at the same time as daycare does, it almost never works out.  We have visitors (some of whom have different lunch and nap schedules), and the kids are overexcited and I start out wanting to create happy childhood memories for them and end up just wanting the cat not to vomit where I can see it.

By the time we get to New Year's, I often think that what we need, as a family, is just to have a normal (for us) week.  A week with sugar free cereal, and our usual schedule, daycare included.

I agree. I never found holidays that rough, but I think about the single parenting thing. I was a single mom for a year. It was tough...but it was honestly easier, 99% of the time (barring illness and such) than it was/is when my ex or dh were/are gone overnight for work. Our whole family routine revolves around two parents - one who is home all day, and one who is home in the evenings and on weekends. When dh isn't home for the evening, it throws us all out of whack.  But, when I was a single mom, our (me and ds1) whole routine revolved around the two of us, so that was our rhythm.

Having your rhythm thrown out of whack can be hard to deal with, whether it's an overnight spousal absence, or the unusual presence of the kids (or your spouse, for that matter - dh was WAH, sick, two days this week - it was wonderful to have him around, but my whole weekly rhythm got thrown out of whack at the same time).

[kittentips]

Where did the idea come from?

Well it originally came from employers who realised the untapped potential of employing women.  They could increase the work pool, pay them less than a man in the same position and get hard workers...so they needed somewhere for the children to go and good reasons for the children to go (socialisation, learning etc) so that their moms would be comfortable leaving them.

But the reality is that these days many women do need childcare to be a good parent and provide for their children, they don't have the luxury of choice.

The reality is also that children who do have a stay at home parent do benefit greatly.

And freedom of choice for those who can do either is a right, and they shouldn't be judged for exercising it!

[geekgolightly]

i am a SAHM and i am really excited that my kiddo can start going to preschool part time. i can start to get the housework done without high needs bb following me undoing my work, get better organized, and exercise without waiting until he naps and then stopping when he wakes up. it is win win and i am not a bad parent for being happy about this new change.

i'm a mommy not a martyr.

[mambera]

Originally Posted by kittentips 
The reality is also that children who do have a stay at home parent do benefit greatly.

I am certain that some individual children with particular needs benefit greatly from a SAHP.  That does not appear to be true on a population level.

The available research suggests that among low-income people, children who attend preschool are in fact the ones who benefit greatly. 

Among the more socioeconomically privileged, there are few detectable differences in outcome between children with a SAHP and those who attend day care.  Hence why this is truly a personal choice. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224241

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20919797

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10908477

[lilabet]

Personally I love my job. I found the baby stage really boring and stressful. I went back to work at 4 months, and now he is 35 I have a job where I can spend as much time as I want with him when I have custody of him. Awesome. 3.5 year olds are a lot of fun. But I don't get why I'm not allowed to have a child if I don't want to be around them 24/7?

I'd be a terrible SAHM. Really terrible. He loves nursery!

[philomom]

Originally Posted by geekgolightly 

i am a SAHM and i am really excited that my kiddo can start going to preschool part time. i can start to get the housework done without high needs bb following me undoing my work, get better organized, and exercise without waiting until he naps and then stopping when he wakes up. it is win win and i am not a bad parent for being happy about this new change.
i'm a mommy not a martyr.

I loved being at home but I loved that mommy's day out two mornings a week, too. Just two hours twice a week to help do things you can't do with kids underfoot!


I raised my kids and now I help others raise theirs to earn college tuition for my two.

[GoGetumTiger]

This thread really sparked my curiosity.  I'm pregnant with my first.  Many of my SAH friends are enrolling their barely-two and three-year-olds in some sort of daycare program at the urging of others so that they can "learn social skills".  So far, most of them have just come home with really bad habits - throwing toys, biting, spiting, etc - so I've been having a hard time understanding (from their experience) how being around twenty other two-year-olds is a benefit.  My SIL is a teacher and loudly has the opinion that SAHM are holding their children back if they don't start attending "school" by the time they're two. 

In any case, I was happy to see this thread, and it prompted me to do a little research.  This popped up and I found it particularly interesting.  Emphasis added below is mine.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/11/01_pre.shtml

New report examines effects nationwide of preschool on kids' development

By Kathleen Maclay, Media Relations | 01 November 2005

BERKELEY – While middle-class children benefit modestly from preschool, youngsters from poor families experience two times the gains in early language and mathematics learning, according to a new study of more than 14,000 kindergartners nationwide. 

The report - "The Influence of Preschool Centers on Children's Development Nationwide: How Much Is Too Much?" - also examined whether long hours in preschool centers lead to diminishing returns in children's early development.

Most surprising, according to the researchers based at the University of California, Berkeley, and Stanford University, is that the social skills of white, middle-class children suffer- ...

[Admin note: Quote edited for copyright violation.  Quotes cannot be longer than 100 words unless you have the express permission of the author to reprint.]

This post is not any kind of judgement about parents who work or or choose to enroll their children in a childcare program to give them some time apart.  I am specifically interested in the assertion that babies/toddlers "need" to go to school or else they will be behind in some way. 
 

[mambera]

Originally Posted by tpase 

Most young children display some unwillingness to be placed in daycare. Which child cries when they get to stay home with mom or dad? I think the answer to your question is self-explanatory based on children's reactions.

Um, that would be my child.  Bored out of her mind and tends to tantrum about every 30 minutes to an hour when stuck home with mom and baby sister (eg preschool holidays).  Engaged, social. generally awesome at preschool.  Which is mostly about free play with friends at this age, not 'nursery rhymes' and 'circle time,'  I can't fathom why she would be better off hanging around while I clean house and go to the bank than outside playing with her friends??

[pek64]

Some children enjoy preschool, others prefer to be at home. The point is, where did we get the idea that a child who stays home is doomed to have a bad life as an adult? It is not about parents who work or children who prefer preschool. For a SAHM whose child cries when dropped off, should preschool be comtinued (with the child unhappy), or stopped and the child remains at home?

[geekgolightly]

Originally Posted by mambera 

Um, that would be my child.  Bored out of her mind and tends to tantrum about every 30 minutes to an hour when stuck home with mom and baby sister (eg preschool holidays).  Engaged, social. generally awesome at preschool.  Which is mostly about free play with friends at this age, not 'nursery rhymes' and 'circle time,'  I can't fathom why she would be better off hanging around while I clean house and go to the bank than outside playing with her friends??

this is pretty much where i am. it really is win-win. my kid loves to be with other kids and i love being able to clean and have it stay clean for a couple hous... that way i can do the whole entire house and for a brief period it will be All Clean!

and, BONUS, i get to workout and count on the time allotted as real, rather than the whim of my child's nap.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by pek64 

Some children enjoy preschool, others prefer to be at home. The point is, where did we get the idea that a child who stays home is doomed to have a bad life as an adult? It is not about parents who work or children who prefer preschool. For a SAHM whose child cries when dropped off, should preschool be comtinued (with the child unhappy), or stopped and the child remains at home?

And except perhaps for MDC, the pressure to put kids into daycare/preschool or else....?????.... is much greater.  We get a bit of respite here.  Outside of this board, it really is not ultimately about what works for each family, in my personal experience.  It almost always boils down to some fear of what would happen if they didn't, or the sincere belief that it is a better environment for children.  

 I can't fathom why she would be better off hanging around while I clean house and go to the bank than outside playing with her friends??

I'm not commenting on mambera's personal situation.  It sounds like her gregarious daughter does quite well at preschool, but often this kind of comment comes with the attitude that a day at home while mom does chores is inherently inferior to the experiences at daycare/preschool.  I haven't found that to be true at all, though I can't really compare as much as I can speak from experience as a mom who has rarely used a babysitter, let alone daycare or preschool (and onward since we homeschool.)  

So, maybe it's not just about being with mom, perhaps it is also about the activities, the staff that is dedicated to the child's experience instead of having divided attentions like a mother would at home.  Is it perhaps something of an unspoken commentary about the value of the SAHM's work as a contribution to society?  That what a home environment has to offer, what with errands and chores, is less important or engaging?  

[MeepyCat]

SweetSilver, that attitude is a direct response to the attitude that all children are better off at home with their parents (for which you can usually read "moms") then they would be at daycare. There's been plenty of that on display in this thread.

I get that you want a break from judgment, particularly the judgment that parents at home full-time are somehow doing it wrong. You should totally have that break, because that there is a ridiculous judgment. On the other hand, parents who make use of daycare could stand a break too, not at the expense of other parents, but maybe on some kind of positive ground like "there are lots of ways to raise kids well," or "families have to make the choices that work for them."

I'll admit that I'd also like to submit to that list "martyrdom isn't good for anybody." There's plenty of martyrdom on display here, and I freely admit I don't get it. I don't think parental unhappiness is good for children, and I don't get why anyone would sign on for an extra helping of it that they could avoid. I understand the automatic defensiveness that comes out in response. I'm not a lesser parent because I chose grad school and then a fulltime job instead of staying home going nuts because some people think that's what good moms should do.

I trust other parents to do as I have, and make choices that work for them. Just don't kick me while you're doing it.

[MeepyCat]

Sorry. DP
Edited by MeepyCat - 12/4/12 at 12:58pm