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Where did the idea come from that little kids are better off NOT at home with their moms? - Page 5

post #81 of 196

All mommy wars aside, I definitely am not in favor of guilt for those who decide not to send their kids to preschool or day care, and I agree it is frustrating to hear everybody around you express the rhetoric of "Man, why doesn't everybody want to [fill in the blank: send your kids to day care, get an epidural, skip vaccines, or whatever else]". If I did SAH full time I probably would do some care as she gets older, just to get a break. But if others choose not to, it's no skin off my nose. Everyone is trying to do what works best for them. I've been seeing so much stuff on Facebook lately about attacks on women's freedoms. We don't need to be hassling each other for our choices. It distracts us from all the other people who will gladly do that for us.

post #82 of 196

I think it doesn't matter at all.  If you as a parent want to send your kid to daycare or preschool,  then you have every right to do it without any other I'm better than you mother telling you it's wrong.  If you want to keep your kid home with you because that's what you think is right then you have every right to do that as well. 

 

All these kinds of conversation do is serve those who feel they are better and making the ultimate sacrifice by sticking to what they think is right and fighting off all comments that they feel says otherwise.  We're not Martyrs, we're mothers. 

post #83 of 196

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Edited by AbbyGrant - 6/23/12 at 10:22am
post #84 of 196
To address the original post: I have also wondered what has brought about the idea that it's better, or necessary, for SAHMs to put their toddlers in some kind of preschool. As if they are incapable of learning at home...I think it has some to do with wanting to "get ahead" and give their child an edge, so that they're "prepared" for kindergarten. I know several moms who talk about sending their 18mo kids to "school" - wait, I thought it was daycare...?

I will happily send my little one to a mothers day out type thing once or twice a week when he's older, but it will have everything to do with having a break for myself, a chance to go grocery shopping, and nothing to do with him learning.
post #85 of 196
Just have to say, this is my first time, ever, reading "only post if you agree with me" on a message board. I've been giggling about it for awhile now... hilarious! smile.gif

Regarding the topic... each family operates differently. Some mamas need that break to be a loving, patient parent. And some don't. I truly can't criticize either way. If a parent is achieving a loving, safe home environment for their lo, then mission accomplished, IMO.
post #86 of 196

I have to be honest, I was also struggling with the "toddlers are better off at pre-school" idea. I was repeatedly told that people are sorry for my then 3-year-old son for being home with me. I didn`t send him to pre-school until he was 4.5 and I think that was a good age.

He is learning some very crucial social skills about how to play with other children and he is also learning the language. (I speak a different language to him). I don`t believe kids are better off with strangers but they do learn to interact with children their age.

OP--I understand your frustration. I am also from a European country and I know how pushy people tend to be. I also struggled with the same issue. You need to make that decision and don`t let other around you influence you.

post #87 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckiest View Post

To address the original post: I have also wondered what has brought about the idea that it's better, or necessary, for SAHMs to put their toddlers in some kind of preschool. As if they are incapable of learning at home...I think it has some to do with wanting to "get ahead" and give their child an edge, so that they're "prepared" for kindergarten. I know several moms who talk about sending their 18mo kids to "school" - wait, I thought it was daycare...?
I will happily send my little one to a mothers day out type thing once or twice a week when he's older, but it will have everything to do with having a break for myself, a chance to go grocery shopping, and nothing to do with him learning.


I agree with this. I am so sick of people saying there like 8 m/o is in "school" call it what it is. I do wish DD could have like 2 half days in daycare for me to get a break and her to play and what not but we can't afford it so it's no biggie. She is not deprived for not going though!

 

 

post #88 of 196

What I got from the OP is that parents (and the government) have convinced themselves that they (the parents) are unfit to care/teach their  own children once they turn 3yo and if you are a "good parent" you will put your child in care by that age, whether you want to or not, or, you are a deviant -- and the OP was saying "yes, you can!" care for/teach your own child, you are fit.

 

It's one thing to put your child in care by want or need; it's another to put them in care because you are taught that you are unfit to teach them ABCs and 123s shrug.gif.

post #89 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post

What I got from the OP is that parents (and the government) have convinced themselves that they (the parents) are unfit to care/teach their  own children once they turn 3yo and if you are a "good parent" you will put your child in care by that age, whether you want to or not, or, you are a deviant -- and the OP was saying "yes, you can!" care for/teach your own child, you are fit.

 

It's one thing to put your child in care by want or need; it's another to put them in care because you are taught that you are unfit to teach them ABCs and 123s shrug.gif.



That's what I got, too. Here there isn't government childcare, but there's a preference among childcare facilities... usually the larger, more institutionalized ones are seen as better and the smaller/home-based ones are seen as worse. And I've come across the attitude here too, though it's usually more aimed at the mother... like you aren't 'contributing to society' and are a bum, mooching off your husband if you stay home. Only if you are low income though... it seems okay for families that can afford all the trappings.... a second vehicle, sports and activities for the kids, vacations in far away places, etc. I think what it is is that our mere existence underlines the fact for some (just some, I know it's a necessity for many) double income families that they ARE making a CHOICE to have more material things over having a parent home, and it makes them uncomfortable.

post #90 of 196

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sosurreal09
 
I am so sick of people saying there like 8 m/o is in "school" call it what it is

 

I used to say 'day care' but since the activities there (Montessori) seemed more and more school-like once she moved to the 2+ room I switched to calling it 'preschool.'  It's not because the term 'day care' carries any negative connotations for me, though it seems to for you for some reason.  ??


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mummoth View Post

That's what I got, too. Here there isn't government childcare, but there's a preference among childcare facilities... usually the larger, more institutionalized ones are seen as better and the smaller/home-based ones are seen as worse. And I've come across the attitude here too, though it's usually more aimed at the mother... like you aren't 'contributing to society' and are a bum, mooching off your husband if you stay home. Only if you are low income though... it seems okay for families that can afford all the trappings.... a second vehicle, sports and activities for the kids, vacations in far away places, etc. I think what it is is that our mere existence underlines the fact for some (just some, I know it's a necessity for many) double income families that they ARE making a CHOICE to have more material things over having a parent home, and it makes them uncomfortable.

 

Hm, there are other reasons to have two working parents besides financial necessity and gross materialism.  We like our jobs, DD likes her preschool (or day care if you will), it's good for her social development, and we'd be driving each other nuts alone together all day.  I suppose I could stay home with some corner-cutting but we'd all be miserable so I don't see the point.
 

 

post #91 of 196

I try very hard not to judge other parents. What people do with their kids is their business, barring abuse of course, I just don't care. We all try to do our best. The thing about preschool that grates on my nerves is the government sponsored idea, that all children NEED to be in preschool, and very young children NEED to be educated. I personally believe, our early education system in many cases, is really not developmentally appropriate or healthy for young children. I think the government needs to butt out and worry about k-12. This trickle down effect is not serving our children well. I'm not talking about daycare programs to help lower income parents work btw! I'm all for government subsidizing those if need be. I'm talking about short preschool programs. If parents want to send their children to preschool because they need a break, or their child is very social and wants to play, or their child has special needs and needs services or whatever, rock on. That's every parents right to choose. I wouldn't judge anyone on it. smile.gif

post #92 of 196

I don't think daycare is negative I just prefer people to call it what it is. My niece is almost 3 and just moved up to pre-school so I call it pre-school, before that I called it day care.

post #93 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by mambera View Post

 

 

I used to say 'day care' but since the activities there (Montessori) seemed more and more school-like once she moved to the 2+ room I switched to calling it 'preschool.'  It's not because the term 'day care' carries any negative connotations for me, though it seems to for you for some reason.  ??


 

 

Hm, there are other reasons to have two working parents besides financial necessity and gross materialism.  We like our jobs, DD likes her preschool (or day care if you will), it's good for her social development, and we'd be driving each other nuts alone together all day.  I suppose I could stay home with some corner-cutting but we'd all be miserable so I don't see the point.
 

 


Sorry, I wasn't trying to say those are the only two possible reasons for someone to choose to work... I was speculating on why some people might be unaccepting of my lifestyle. I was trying to say that a SAHM who has all the things that society says we 'need' isn't subjected to the same judgement as a SAHM whose family lives on a much lower income. I think most people can agree that happiness is a necessity, or at least should be a very high priority. How each of us goes about that is our own business. 

 

For me 'daycare' is when the kids are there for a full 8 hour day, usually 5 days a week, and 'preschool' is a 2 hour program, 2 or 3 times a week.

post #94 of 196
I don't personally think it's helpful to send babies and toddlers 2 and younger to preschool, though I don't know that it's harmful either. I just don't know how much it's about education.

OTOH, I do think some preschool is helpful, and I'm glad I sent my older child, and I plan to send my younger child, at 3.5 years. Kids can learn ABCs and all that at home of course, but there are things that they can only learn in a group that will prepare them for school if they'll be going to regular school. Things like how to sit in a circle and participate in a group activity, how to line up, it's a big help in learning to take turns and share, learning how to listen to a story told to a group (which is different than when a story is read to just you.) That kind of thing. Kindergartens expect kids to know how to behave in a classroom setting when they start kindergarten.

My older daughter loved preschool, and my younger one is excited to start. It can be a great thing. I wouldn't say kids are better off there, but I don't think they're worse off, and I think there are things they learn at preschool which make going to kindergarten easier for them.
post #95 of 196

In response to the original poster, I totally agree with you.  Where I live in Canada, they just started a new full day pre-kindergarten for 4 year olds.  Prior to that it was half-time Pre-K.  I'm a SAHM and strongly believe in at least one parent (or other close family member) being with their child on a daily basis for those early years.  I feel that developing a secure attachment with a person that truly loves the child is very important.  That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.  I have worked my life around it.  We have gotten creative living single-income in a double-income society.  I do recognize that it is somewhat of a luxury in our culture to actually be able to stay home with your children.  I do not judge those who cannot or choose not to stay home.  Each person does what they need to do based on necessity, or personal choice.

 

In some cultures, it is unheard of to let a stranger have any say in what your kids do all day.  But here is is normal to ship off young infants into institutional care.  I do have a hard time thinking this is any good for the little ones.

 

I went to enroll my son in Pre-K with the intention of doing just part-time.  And I was met with resistance from the principal and vice-principal.  They seemed to think my son would be better off full-time (35 hours in their care)! I don't get it.  I've taught him so much in his short life, so why all of a sudden am I unqualified because our goverment implemented full-day kindergarten a few years ago?  Our goverment thinks that their early education is building a better workforce for tomorrow.  Grooming little children to be little workers at 4 years old. Sickening.  So many children are in before-school programs, in school all day, after-school daycare, then evening extra-curriculars.  They are over-scheduled, and have exhausted, emotionally unavailable parents.  Childhood is rushed, and children are hurried to grow up.  My son has many years of full-time school ahead of him.  Why such a rush to get started? 

 

Follow your heart, do what feels right.  Your intuition is strong and accurate on this one.  Little children need their mommies.  They should be eating lunch at their family table, having naps in their own beds. 

post #96 of 196

I haven't read answers beyond the first page. OP, I completely understand what you  mean. I grew up in a European country that provides that too and it is commonly accepted that you have to put kids in daycare or they won't get socialized, that mom cannot teach them and so on. That background is offensive and I dislike it so very much as well. DS was home with me until 2.5 years when he started 2.5h preschool twice a week. At 3, he started 3h preschool 5 days a week in the mornings. I had DD too at that time so it was a break for me, and time to concentrate only on DD. But DS did great, and he caught up on his English (he only actively spoke my language at that point; he could understand English btu didn't bother to speak it). I specifically though chose a school that teaches a certain curriculum that I like (letters, phonograms, such). So it is not daycare, it is a school, which is a huge difference to me. I realize daycare is a necessity to working moms, but not to us SAHMs. 3h of preschool is not 3h of daycare.

post #97 of 196

I haven't finished this thread (read the first few pages quite a while ago, but  haven't been back recently - I'm on page four), but want to comment on something that I see a lot in the WOHM/SAHM section of the Mommy Wars.

 

I was a WOHM for the first ten years of ds1's life. That ended when I went on maternity leave with dd1. I've been a SAHM ever since (nine years this month). I hated being a WOHM, but there were really no options, financially. My paycheque was what kept a roof over our heads, and food on the table. I desperately wanted to be a SAHM, which made WOH even worse. I hated missing so much time with ds1, and wasn't even a little bit interested in having a career. I can't even relate to wanting a career (male or female - dh steps up to the plate to provide for us, but I wouldn't marry someone who was really ambitious, either - just not a vibe that I want in my personal space).

 

That said...having an emotional need to earn money, be financially independent, challenge oneself in the workplace, etc. is absolutely a legitimate reason to go to work. Some people really don't thrive as SAHPs, and if a mom is truly overwhelmed, bored, in need or more adult face time and/or mental stimulation...who the f--k am I to say they should ignore that and stay home? I don't think being reared by someone who is martyring herself 24/7 to do something she thinks she "should" do, but doesn't want to do, or enjoy doing, is going to benefit from that. If a woman has a need to be in the workforce, or climbing the ladder, or whatever, then she shouldn't have to ignore that need. We, as SAHMs, don't get to decide if said need is valid or not.

 

And, yeah - I think it's a shame when a mom is constantly fed up with her kids, and can't wait to get away from them....but if that's how she really feels, then I definitely think her kids are better off at preschool, daycare, or whatever. I remember how it felt to live with someone (my ex) who didn't value me and didn't want me around, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, let alone a kid. (This paragraph was specifically about an aunt metioned upthread, not about WOHMs, in general.)

post #98 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by mambera View Post

I just want to say I think it is a bit of a misconception that all parents who feel preschool is good for their children are pushing 'early education.'  I feel preschool is good for my child because it is interesting and entertaining for her to be with a group of children than it would be for her to be home with me all day (I WOH anyway, but even if I did SAH I woul  to send her to a group setting assuming it were financially feasible).

 

I don't personally feel my  2y/o 'needs' to learn reading or arithmetic yet (although she is picking up both quite well, mostly from being read to and 'taught' stuff by DH), but I do really feel that she needs to learn how to interact with other children in a group setting. 

 

If you want to play the 'natural' or 'evolutionarily appropriate' or 'traditional-cultures' or whatever card, then in most of these settings it has been the norm for children to be exposed on a daily basis to a community of people who are not their parents. 

 

Now it's true that preschool doesn't equal 'the village,' but I think it does a better job than being home alone with mom all day.



I want to address this because i think it was me who brought up an evolutionary angle.

 

Did you miss where i said:

 

 

Quote:
We went to groups, parks, museums, hung out at the library, saw friends, worked our way through the toddler and preschooler busy-books...

 

and

 

 

Quote:
 Kids need contact with other PEOPLE, of all ages.  So long as your kid gets contact with other people, preferably loving people who are interested in them and kind to them, they will do great.  How you choose (or become or provide) those influences is up to you.

 

I'm not "playing a card" and i totally agree (and did state even in my original post) that kids need PEOPLE!  We really must all begin to see past this binary "at home=alone with mama/at preschool=with other people" dichotomy.  It's completely false and it just fuels a war that none of us are actually wanting to fight!  I am not trying to defend my right to keep my kid at home with only me for company any more than a person using preschool is trying to defend her dumping her kid so she can get a break!  My kid is not stuck in bored and alone with me and her kid is not "dumped" at preschool!  We're merely making different decisions to get the needs of our kids met.

post #99 of 196

I'm sorry, I got interrupted while writing that post or I would have been less abrupt.  I don't think I was responding to GoBecGo's post actually, rather to a couple of others that suggested the main reason for preschool is a desire for early formal education.  And I absolutely am not interested in fighting a 'mommy war' - obviously we are all making the choices that we feel are best for our own families, and it's completely impossible to say what somebody else's kid needs since kids are so different from each other and have such disparate individual developmental trajectories and needs.

 

But since we are on the topic, regarding the 'village' thing, I really do not think that either of the options available to modern parents approximates 'the village,' meaning a community of constant composition, of people of different ages, mostly older than the child, engaged in various meaningful/productive pursuits that the kids can learn about by watching and participating to the extent that they are able, but that are not engineered around the child. 

 

Preschool doesn't do it because all the kids are at the same developmental age, doing activities specifically geared for that age, and there are only a couple of adults around and they are concentrating on the kids.  Home with a SAHP doesn't do it either (unless you are in a large multigenerational family situation maybe) even if there are lots of outside activities, because the exposure to other people is intermittent, the composition of the community is changing, and again the activities are geared specifically to the child.

 

But beyond that, I also want to take a step back and ask to what degree it is important to try to 'approximate the village' anyway?  It does sound like a really nice kind of life (assuming a good climate and plentiful natural resources of course) but OTOH 'the village' is not where we live.  My kid is going to have to navigate her way through standard schooling and labor force participation where she is constantly going to be in the company of peers so I would like her to be comfortable in that kind of situation.  I do like the aspect of preschool where the community is made up of the same people day in, day out because I think that helps a child learn how to relate to others effectively. 

post #100 of 196

     Quote:

Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

We really must all begin to see past this binary "at home=alone with mama/at preschool=with other people" dichotomy. 


I couldn't agree more. My daughter definitely didn't lack exposure to other people before she started preschool at nearly age 5 (she missed the cutoff for kindergarten by a couple months). She came out into the community with me and participated in daily life. She knew all the folks at the library, bank, post office, and local shops. We spent a lot of time with friends and neighbors. Apparently all that must have served her well because she had no trouble adjusting to school, and she got along very well with everyone. 

 

 

edited to fix typo


Edited by AbbyGrant - 4/4/12 at 2:47pm
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