Worried about immature, petulant 11 year old - Page 2

[Super~Single~Mama]

She sounds a little like I was. I have a really hard pronouncing some words, especially of I haven't seen them written down. I had never eaten a samosa until I was in law school, and didn't know how to say the word until I saw it written down on a takeout menu (a few years later, and I was in my twenties). Same with other words as well, it's funny to because my name can be hard to pronounce, but seeing it written down makes it harder to say not easier. I had a lot of ear infections when I was a kid, and I have tons of scar tissue in them, which I think makes it hard for me to hear how certain words are pronounced (especially if they are from a different culture).

Honestly, she's at a rough age.

As for the phone, tell her you can't afford to get her one right now, that she doesn't really need on anyway, and that you will reevaluate in a year or so. The dummy phone isn't necessary, and because you know she wont keep track of it, it's really just a tool that will end up making her feel badly about herself.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

The dummy phone isn't necessary, and because you know she wont keep track of it, it's really just a tool that will end up making her feel badly about herself.

I really agree with this. I keep track of my phone and zillions of other things but I couldn't hold on to a dummy phone because it's meaningless.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

The dummy phone isn't necessary, and because you know she wont keep track of it, it's really just a tool that will end up making her feel badly about herself.

I really agree with this. I keep track of my phone and zillions of other things but I couldn't hold on to a dummy phone because it's meaningless.

I just wanted to clarify that I understand you aren't intentionally trying to make her feel bad about it, but it's not always the intent that matters.

[jdsf]

Well, for what it's worth, the dummy phone was her idea. Since I wrote the original post, she has realized on her own that she doesn't need a phone and stopped trying to get one. Just putting that out there since a lot of people seemed hung up on that one.

[RitesForGirls]

You have a lot to contend with.  I wish for you all the resources that you are going to need to see your daughter happily on her way towards womanhood. 

Some of what you write sounds normal.  Hard to handle, but normal.

Some of what you write sounds more extreme.  It makes me wonder - what problem is she trying to solve by this immature behaviour?  Your daughter clearly has the capacity to be a bright, responsible and well-mannered person (at school) so I wonder what is driving her poor behaviour at home. 

She won't have the answers herself I imagine - so it will be futile asking her "Why?" "Why are you so...?"  "Why don't you grow up?"

You may not find the answers yourself either, but do search for them.

Deep down your daughter wants to be loved and accepted by you, however it may seem.  But she's not acting that way.  So, win her back.  Take her away - just you and her - for a few days, and have fun together.  Treat her.  Enjoy each others company.  Take her away from everything that is going on at home and see what happens.  Activities that require you to cooperate together and asking her to take responsibility for something rather than asking her to help you (cooking a meal, canoeing, rock climbing, map-reading etc)   will give her the opportunity to behave more maturely.

I would not be surprised if she lets you in and you'll get some insight into what is troubling her.

There are also things that you can do to help her to mature and grow up. 

"A rite of passage creates a shift in self-perception which moves a person along the path of maturity."

http://ritesforgirls.com/journeying-towards-womanhood/why-perform-a-rite-of-passage/

[jdsf]

I just took her on a "date" Saturday. We went to the candy store, saw a movie, had a nice lunch at an italian restaurant and I even bought her clothes. She is worse than ever this week. I try to do something special with her every week and it doesn't change anything. She is very negative and constantly blaming everything on other people.

I think I'm going to take her to therapy. I'm voting for oppositional defiant disorder.

[FarmerBeth]

Originally Posted by jdsf 

I just took her on a "date" Saturday. We went to the candy store, saw a movie, had a nice lunch at an italian restaurant and I even bought her clothes. She is worse than ever this week. I try to do something special with her every week and it doesn't change anything. She is very negative and constantly blaming everything on other people.

I think I'm going to take her to therapy. I'm voting for oppositional defiant disorder.

I think therapy is a good idea.  Jumping to conclusions about oppositional defiant disorder maybe not.  This type of behavior sometimes can happen when kids have discouraged about themselves or about their relationship in the family.  Kind of a self sabotaging behavior, like when adults have a new job or date that seems to go well and screw it up for some reason.  Sure, she could have a disorder, but maybe you need some time to work on the relationship just because of half sibling issues, blended family, sibling comparison, figuring out where she fits in as she reaches puberty, all that.  You can see in those posts there is a lot on her plate.

I used to facilitate early childhood STEP and my co-worker facilitated teen STEP (systematic training for effective parenting).  If you can find a program, it might help you learn about finding motive for behavior, and you may see where I'm coming from about the discouragement.  I also recommend the book (or the program, if you have access) "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen".  Brushing up on communication skills is always helpful, certainly can't harm, and you may learn some good techniques for encouraging positive behavior in a non-punishing and non-discouraging way.  Working on yourself and the whole family is just as important as finding direct help for your daughter.

Here's a link about the STEP program:http://www.steppublishers.com/

[Mom31]

NOT a vote I would make for my child.  Really?  Read what you are writing.  I mean man my kids drive me nuts but come on mom.  You can do better than this.

[beanma]

I think she sounds TOTALLY within the realm of NORMAL for an 11 yr old girl. Some of her behaviors may be a little more on one end of the spectrum than in the middle, but I really don't think it's anything to worry about. I wouldn't take her to therapy for any of the things you've mentioned. 

As far as the needing someone to sleep with when her sister is not available (or if her sister is not into) it I would try to make her bedtime in her own bed a little more special with maybe a read aloud (poems might be nice for her if you don't want to get into a big chapter book like Harry Potter 4, our current read) and some snuggles until she falls asleep. We still snuggle our 11 yr old and 8 yr old to sleep. And our 11 yr old definitely likes to sleep with someone (sisters are so convenient). I don't make a big deal out of it if she wakes up in the middle of the night and wants to come into our room, but unless they're sick or something they definitely need to start the night in their own room. Most of the time once they're asleep they stay in their room. Our 11 yr old is actually the one who comes in our room more often, though. She's got a more anxious and more artistic personality. 

Our 8 yr old is the negative it's-not-fair queen. Most of the time she's actually a super great kid, but when she gets grumpy it's all somebody else's fault. What helps with us is actively practicing gratitude. We practice looking for the good things in life and not looking for the bad things. Enough bad things will find you without you going to look for them. You might try working on gratitude journals. I think it's a good practice for anyone and so does Oprah, too, I guess. Apparently there's even an app for that now, too! I would either do it as a family or as a mom-daughter thing and don't make it all be her problem. Tell her you want to practice gratitude and positivity, too. You might pick up a couple of pre-made gratitude journals at the store (could make her feel grown up) or make your own. What we often do is go around the table at supper and tell our best things/worst things that happened to us that day. Sometimes we add funniest thing or craziest thing, too.

One thing our girls have enjoyed this year is Girls On The Run. I don't know if they have a program in your area, but it's a very positive program that "inspires girls to be joyful, healthy and confident". There is a program for older girls in some areas, too, Girls On Track. 

When my girls want help getting a bowl down, etc, I just take a no big deal approach and ask them to give it another try. I don't get emotionally involved, but I certainly don't jump up and do it for them either. If they won't try again after I'm done doing what I'm doing I will go over to the cabinet with them and basically coach them thru getting the bowl in a non-condescending manner. Basically my girls do it if they want some attention, so I give them some attention w/o doing it for them. 

hth

[mamazee]

I'm hearing so much negativity, and she's got to be hearing it too, and I wonder if she's just mirroring that. She might feel very bad, being compared to her sister and being told how she's not measuring up. It doesn't sound like she has ODD or anything like that, just that you and she are locked in a cycle of negativity together. Though therapy will probably be a great help in that.

But I think you're the one who has to take the lead in getting out of the cycle since you're an adult. Does it really matter whether she speaks precisely? Prioritize. How she feels about herself and her place in your family is more important than that. Maybe she's acting like a baby because she feels a need to be babied. Baby her and let her feel that unconditional love that we so easily give to babies but have a harder time giving to pre-teens.

[beanma]

You might also be interested in Anthony Wolfe's parenting books and his theory of the baby-self. His books are funny and super easy to read. I don't agree with all of his ideas, but like LLL I take what works and leave the rest. Overall I think he's got some pretty good points.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Parenting-Kids---Preteens--Without-ebook/dp/B005BOYTTI/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333675506&sr=1-4

http://www.amazon.com/Life-First-Could-Drive-Cheryl/dp/0374528535

[karne]

I think therapy for yourself is a great idea--that's where I would start, not with putting your dd in therapy.  It is our responsibility as adults to make the first moves to changing a situation, or even just understanding the situation.  I have found a world of difference between 11/12 and 13--it's not always easy, in fact it's pretty challenging sometimes.  But we have to be the parents and step up to the plate and do the work ourselves to parent effectively during these years.  If we need help to do so, so be it.  I say do what you need to do in order to parent well.  The risks of not doing so are just too high.

Of course, your dd may welcome the opportunity to have the support of a counselor.  One thing I am very grateful for are the strong and positive female role models in my dd's life.  Our kids need the formal or informal places to go and people to be with, that are not us as their parents, as they start to move away form us.

[meandmine]

I was just going to post about my struggles dealing with my 10 and 11 3/4 yo dds ...

Your dd sounds quite a bit like my 10 yo ...

My 10 yo is exceptionally bright and insightful, but she has ADD and often that manifests itself in what *feels* to me like laziness -- her father is similarly challenged and it is part of why our marriage ended -- I cannot tolerate folks who sit around and let their world pile up and fall apart around them (literally).

I am freaked out about my daughter because I don't want her to have the same experience as her father so I tend to over-react to her behavior.  Still a HUGE work-in-progress for me.

My gut response to your description is that your dd is not untypical of an 11 yo -- I delayed my older dd's entry to kindergarten because she wasn't ready socially and emotionally, so she is in 5th grade, too and it is perfect on every level for her.

My gut also is that your dd may have add -- thus "memory," word-recall issues and absent-mindedness regarding everyday chores. 

My dd with add had delayed speech, delayed reading, some physical manifestations (tip-toed, reflux, poor muscle tone), serious sleep-issues (thus she still climbs in with me many nights even though she sleeps much better) and yet ... she caught up on all fronts and is considered "gifted and talented" and in the excelerated academic program, like your daughter. 

But, like your dd, mine is not a "doer" or a "worker" -- she is a dreamer, a thinker, a lover of people -- incredibly generous, kind; incredibly creative and artistic ... And, for this organized doer of a mother -- a very frustrating member of the household.  So I totally get you!

I keep trying to help my dd find coping mechanisms so she can function, can contribute at home (and minimize my frustration with her lack of "pitching in," and so hopefully she can function as an independent adult (unlike her poor father).  So far, I think I just make her feel badly about herself even while I totally appreciate her gifts.  I just over-react to her "laziness"  (gotta read that book referenced by the pp) because of a) my preference for doers and b) my fear based on her father's massive disfunction.

So, I hope we both can find a) patience, b) time to affirm the gifts, and c) mechanisms to help our challenging dds achieve a sense of efficacy and be contributing members of the household.

M

[jdsf]

I have been in therapy on and off for C-PTSD the last 15 years. I had a very atypical childhood and blocked out a number of periods due to trauma, but I have been working on it for awhile. I haven't been to therapy lately as my therapist said I didn't need to keep coming unless I wanted to/could afford it, and I recently got on a cheaper insurance plan to cut costs so I stopped going. Anyway, my therapist had suggested her talking to someone on the "outside" of the situation a little about her perceptions on things to gauge whether or not what she's going through is "normal" or problematic, and I wasn't too worried but she has increased this behavior lately so I think it's time. I have read How To Talk... and I do use a lot of those techniques. You could ask her to go eat candy and her first response is to complain. I try to be as positive as I can around her, pointing out the beauty in even the worst situation. We give thanks every time we sit down to a meal. Usually, both DDs offer something like "I'm thankful for macaroni", but sometimes, they get pretty deep, and I always make sure to give thanks for them and commend the things they do. She is an amazing person, she surprises me every day with her thoughtfulness and never fails to make me laugh. I have a tendency to write a little more dramatically than I think sometimes so this situation isn't as terrible as some of you may be reading into. On a scale of 1-10 in relationship quality and general behavior she is solidly an 8 so far as "kids in the world" go, so my complaining is more of a first world problem and I'm sure I make it out to be worse than it really is. The difference is this "me" isn't the one my kids or partner see on a regular basis, I don't make a habit of whining and moaning in person, and I am making the mistake of being a little more candid than I should but that's the beauty of the interwebz. I believe there is a meme referring to this concept but I digress.

Anyway, ADD/ADHD might be something of an issue here but I don't necessarily agree with that diagnosis. In any case, I don't believe in medication for it unless the severity precludes so. Her father has similar inattention problems but he also started smoking pot as a young teenager so who knows. In any case, I'm sure talking to a professional could be beneficial.