My daughter

[sarafi]

This has been on my mind as my sister will be having another boy, and will undoubtedly circ. him so he will, "look like daddy", just as she did her first son.

From birth my daughter has had problems, "labial adhesion's" were the first and they were many, and horrible and painful to deal with.

Recently she has had surgery to repair grade 4/5 kidney reflux and will need to have further testing to discover what exactly is wrong with her bladder, as clearly there is still something going on. These test require catheters and at almost nine she is finding catheters no less painful/terrifying than she did when we first began this journey. She is an intact female, who has had two years of recurring UTI's well past the time when you would expect childhood UTI's to happen. Any boy in here place would have been prescribed circumcision (before the very invasive testing revealed reflux).

I write this here, to encourage all mothers with sons to keep them intact! If your sons are born whole and healthy, what sense does it make to invade their little bodies with surgery on the very slight chance they may want or need surgery later in life? My daughters issues were no less traumatic when she was a baby, the only difference was that she was easier to hold down to "fix them". The fact that I could hold her down, does not mean that it was easier for her to experience it--it simply means she was small enough to be overpowered! I can only imagine how much worse this would be if I had to question what I did to contribute to this problem.

Please, don't choose surgery for your healthy infants. Don't start down a road you may be forced to follow to fix the first surgery. Leave your sons options open for them to explore when they can make the rationale decision to do so, and save yourself the pain of having to hurt your baby to make the better.

I write this as a mother of two intact and perfectly healthy boys, with two intact girls as well. One of whom happens to have most all of the problems given to parents of boys as a reason to circumcise at birth. Have you ever heard of another girl child with these problems? If not, how likely do you really think it is that your boy will have these same problems?

[mama24-7]

I'm sorry for all your daughter & you have gone through.  I can't even imagine.  (((hugs)))

Have you considered sharing this w/ your sister?  Of course, I have no idea what you have shared to this point, so you may not feel it is something you want to do, but I thought I'd ask.  Perhaps put it into an email & also include the "regret" thread?

Best wishes,

Sus

[Alenushka]

You are comparing apples and oranges.  Female anatomy and  male anatomy is  different. Female circumcision would not fix your child's problem.

circumcision at age 9 fiex my brother's issues...he was tired of catheters.

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

You are comparing apples and oranges.  Female anatomy and  male anatomy is  different. Female circumcision would not fix your child's problem.

circumcision at age 9 fiex my brother's issues...he was tired of catheters.

Anatomy may differ, but in my opinion, the right to bodily integrity is universal.  I think the OP's point was that folks will do a lot to preserve female intactness and view FGM with horror, but are rather more nonchalant when it comes to routine infant circumcision where males are concerned.  When there's a problem with a normal body part, why not try all avenues before resorting to removing that body part (or even just a portion of it)?

You can't possibly know whether or not female circumcision would or would not fix the OP's child's problems.  I'm glad your brother is comfortable now, but just because circumcision was the solution for him doesn't mean it should be used as a preemptive strike on all infants without their consent. 

Please remember that this forum is called The Case Against Circumcision.  While you don't say so explicitly, you seem to hint at recommending circumcision.  I hope that's not the case, but if it is, please know going forward that pro-circ comments are unwelcome here.

[Alenushka]

I am not reccomedning anything. I just pointed out that one can;t compare apples and oranges.

There cases where it helpes males with some rare issues....it never does anything for females.  Anatomical facts are anatomicl facts.

Obvisouly, my brother did not have a healthy part removed. His pars was sick and he was at risk for other thing. I am sure now they would have better medications

[sarafi]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I am not reccomedning anything. I just pointed out that one can;t compare apples and oranges.

There cases where it helpes males with some rare issues....it never does anything for females.  Anatomical facts are anatomicl facts.

Obvisouly, my brother did not have a healthy part removed. His pars was sick and he was at risk for other thing. I am sure now they would have better medications

I underlined part of your post which seems key. We used to think female circumcision "did something" and part of the world still does. The point was that maybe 100 years ago, I easily could have gotten a recommendation to circumcise her--and yet to this very day if she was a boy I would almost certainly have been advised to do so. Just because we decided the FGM is horrific, but haven't admitted such for our boys does not magically make MGM valuable.

That would not have solved her issues in the least, they are internal--but if she was a boy I would have had a very hard time getting doctors to look past the foreskin to find the inner problems.

[sarafi]

Originally Posted by mama24-7 

I'm sorry for all your daughter & you have gone through.  I can't even imagine.  (((hugs)))

Have you considered sharing this w/ your sister?  Of course, I have no idea what you have shared to this point, so you may not feel it is something you want to do, but I thought I'd ask.  Perhaps put it into an email & also include the "regret" thread?

Best wishes,

Sus

Thanks for your well wishes!

My sister knows how I feel, she said she watched the circ. videos and still thought it was best. I can't imagine her not choosing to circumcise again but I will mention it again soon on the off chance she is open to waiting. She more of a "get it done and over with" kind of girl, so I am sure she will have this baby cut shortly after birth. I can't even imagine choosing genital surgery if you don't actually need to have it done! 

Crazy, thanks for letting me share

[MammaWyatt]

I chose not circumcise and went to a doc that said let it go back by itself. My mother instructed me otherwise. "you need to help it back or else it can get infected and grow around the head of the penis" Well, needless to day even with "helping it back" it has still grown around a bit. i now have to put more pressure to pull it back and find white little pimple like spots that i have to get out. I am nervous that i am not doing enough and that is will not pull back. My husband was circumcised so I really dont have anything to compare to. I am against circumcision and want to try to correct this problem on our own . any suggestions? 

[tropicana]

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

I chose not circumcise and went to a doc that said let it go back by itself. My mother instructed me otherwise. "you need to help it back or else it can get infected and grow around the head of the penis" Well, needless to day even with "helping it back" it has still grown around a bit. i now have to put more pressure to pull it back and find white little pimple like spots that i have to get out. I am nervous that i am not doing enough and that is will not pull back. My husband was circumcised so I really dont have anything to compare to. I am against circumcision and want to try to correct this problem on our own . any suggestions? 

how old is your child? 

regardless, my advice would be to just.leave.it.alone.

your mother does NOT know best in this situation.

[MammaWyatt]

Originally Posted by tropicana 

how old is your child? 

regardless, my advice would be to just.leave.it.alone.

your mother does NOT know best in this situation.

Actually, if I had not taken my mothers advice I would of had to of circumcise my son ( 18 months). My son now has white "pimple pus" when i pull back his skin. it had gotten infected because i was not pulling it back(listening to the doctors) now the skin has grown up around his penis. I now have to soak him in warm water and work it back to get the foreskin to pull back again the white pimple like pus is slowly coming out with me working the skin back. This is the only bad thing about not circumcising ( having to pull it back every night and make sure it stays clean.) 

[Dev]

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

I chose not circumcise and went to a doc that said let it go back by itself. My mother instructed me otherwise. "you need to help it back or else it can get infected and grow around the head of the penis" Well, needless to day even with "helping it back" it has still grown around a bit. i now have to put more pressure to pull it back and find white little pimple like spots that i have to get out. I am nervous that i am not doing enough and that is will not pull back. My husband was circumcised so I really dont have anything to compare to. I am against circumcision and want to try to correct this problem on our own . any suggestions? 

Please go to this educational website to learn about proper care of an intact penis - www.nocirc.org   Hit the tab at the top called Nocirc publications and read pamphlets #4, #6 and #7.

[mama2soren]

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

Actually, if I had not taken my mothers advice I would of had to of circumcise my son ( 18 months). My son now has white "pimple pus" when i pull back his skin. it had gotten infected because i was not pulling it back(listening to the doctors) now the skin has grown up around his penis. I now have to soak him in warm water and work it back to get the foreskin to pull back again the white pimple like pus is slowly coming out with me working the skin back. This is the only bad thing about not circumcising ( having to pull it back every night and make sure it stays clean.) 

Wow.  You have gotten some pretty bad advice, mama.  What you're doing could be causing permanent damage to your son's penis.  If your son has had an infection, It's infinitely more likely that it's because he's being retracted repeatedly, creating small tears that are then open to infection.  Please consider looking at some websites about proper care of the intact penis.  It is never appropriate to retract a baby's foreskin like that.  You mentioned your fear of it "growing around the head of the penis."  It is supposed to cover the head.  The foreskin will not adhere to itself and block the urethra or anything.  

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

I chose not circumcise and went to a doc that said let it go back by itself. My mother instructed me otherwise. "you need to help it back or else it can get infected and grow around the head of the penis" Well, needless to day even with "helping it back" it has still grown around a bit. i now have to put more pressure to pull it back and find white little pimple like spots that i have to get out. I am nervous that i am not doing enough and that is will not pull back. My husband was circumcised so I really dont have anything to compare to. I am against circumcision and want to try to correct this problem on our own . any suggestions? 

Welcome to Mothering & TCAC, MammaWyatt!  I hope you'll stick around. ;-)

I can imagine you feel pretty torn between what your mom says you should do & what people are saying here.  It's tough to know what to do sometimes.  Like a PP'er said, the foreskin is supposed to be attached to the head of the penis in a young child (and sometimes well into & beyond puberty it stays that way).  While I don't know for sure, it seems like many of the cases you hear of "he just had to be circ'd" in a male later in life are because the boy was repeatedly forcibly retracted.  You wouldn't force open a little girl's labia & douche her.  That's what forcibly retracting a non-retractable boy & cleaning him is like.

We know that you want what's in your son's best interests because you left him intact.  And, please know that we're not attacking you.  We're trying to help you to continue to protect your little boy.  

Please consider what you are doing & stop.  His penis will be best off if left alone, and only wash the outside just life a finger.  The urine stream coming out is designed to cleanse as it exits the body (healthy human urine is sterile).

Best wishes,

Sus

[hakunangovi]

MamaWyatt, Welcome, and cogratulations for leaving your son intact!  I think your Mom is just passing on what she learned many years ago. It is the same misguided advice that all the doctors were disseminating back then, and was born of the eroneous opinion that a foreskin is dirty and subject to infection, and needed to be retracted and cleaned on a daily basis.  If one were to suggest this to someone from a non circumcising nation (say in Europe or Scandinavia) they would be horrified. They do not manipulate a child's foreskin at all. The truth is that in a child the foreskin is (usualy) fused to the glans and the preputial sphincter opens for urination only, so everything (dirt, germs, feces) is kept out. Keep in mind that urine is sterile until it leaves the body and flushes out the preputial space each time the child pees.  I think the "white pus" that you are seeing is smegma - a benificial substance that both keeps the glans moist and has antibacterial properties. Smegma is the greek word for "soap".  It is known that frequent retraction and cleaning accelerates the production of smegma.  I would bet that if you leave your son's foreskin alone that this will decrease.  You might be interested in reading www.cirp.org/library/normal/ . In fact the www.cirp.org website has enough reading on all aspects of circumcision and intactness to keep you busy for a month!

[Devaskyla]

Stop pulling it back. Just stop. You are hurting your son. Your mother was undoubtedly well-meaning, but horribly, horribly wrong. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but pulling back an infant/young child's foreskin will cause permanent damage. I know, because my husband & I have to live with the massive scarring HIS mother caused with the repeated retraction.

Just leave it alone. No one should be pulling it back except your son, when he's older & it's ready. Hopefully the damage already caused won't be too severe. If you're really worried about the "pus" take a sample and get a lab to look at it, but stop HURTING your child. Your mother was WRONG

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

Actually, if I had not taken my mothers advice I would of had to of circumcise my son ( 18 months). My son now has white "pimple pus" when i pull back his skin. it had gotten infected because i was not pulling it back(listening to the doctors) now the skin has grown up around his penis. I now have to soak him in warm water and work it back to get the foreskin to pull back again the white pimple like pus is slowly coming out with me working the skin back. This is the only bad thing about not circumcising ( having to pull it back every night and make sure it stays clean.) 

[skyblufig]

^ what she said ^

I've got 2 intact boys, one 7, one almost 2. We have never, never, never retracted them. Not once. And neither has our family practice doc. With my oldest, he had one very small issue with some irritation when he was about 18 months old or so. Turned out he was being a bit over-exuberant with himself in the bath.  And our doctor said to just let him soak a little longer than usual, a few more baths than usual, and let it go.

It's completely true what others are posting; back in the day, doctors did tell mothers to retract & clean, blah blah blah. But now that we know better, we do better.

Please, take the advice given here. Your son will thank you for it later. 

Jen

[kathydavid]

This really needs to be said more often. I have no intention of hurting my boys with that kind of invasion, and I can't imagine why people would do that.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by mama2soren 

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

Actually, if I had not taken my mothers advice I would of had to of circumcise my son ( 18 months). My son now has white "pimple pus" when i pull back his skin. it had gotten infected because i was not pulling it back(listening to the doctors) now the skin has grown up around his penis. I now have to soak him in warm water and work it back to get the foreskin to pull back again the white pimple like pus is slowly coming out with me working the skin back. This is the only bad thing about not circumcising ( having to pull it back every night and make sure it stays clean.) 

Wow.  You have gotten some pretty bad advice, mama.  What you're doing could be causing permanent damage to your son's penis.  If your son has had an infection, It's infinitely more likely that it's because he's being retracted repeatedly, creating small tears that are then open to infection.  Please consider looking at some websites about proper care of the intact penis.  It is never appropriate to retract a baby's foreskin like that.  You mentioned your fear of it "growing around the head of the penis."  It is supposed to cover the head.  The foreskin will not adhere to itself and block the urethra or anything.  

Repeat retraction of the foreskin causes scar tissue to form. Please from the bottom of my heart stop retracting your ds like that if you dont when he is grown he very well end up with true phimosis that can only be fixed by surgery. By forcibly retracting you can actually also cause his foreskin to become stuck behind the glans leading to major issues called paraphimosis it is an emergency and only happens when force is used to retract the foreskin before it is ready.

The white pus like stuff you are seeing is called smegma and it is nothing to be concerned about it is only dead skin cells much like dandruf mixed with body oil. Non of the mothers i know of here ever retract to clean. I k now I have not nor will I ever do that.

[Frank Speaks]

Originally Posted by MammaWyatt 

I chose not circumcise and went to a doc that said let it go back by itself. My mother instructed me otherwise. "you need to help it back or else it can get infected and grow around the head of the penis" Well, needless to day even with "helping it back" it has still grown around a bit.

So, you took your mother's suggestion while rejecting the doctor's suggestion and you're suprised that there are problems?  Is your mother a doctor?  The "growing around the head" sounds like phimosis that you and your mother probably caused by trying to retract the foreskin before it was ready.

i now have to put more pressure to pull it back

Just how old is your son?  It sounds like you are forcibly retracting him.  That will cause real problems down the road.

and find white little pimple like spots that i have to get out.

Those are called "Pearly penile papules" and are totally benign (harmless).  Just leave them alone.

I am nervous that i am not doing enough and that is will not pull back.

Unless your son is in his late teens, you are doing way, way too much and are probably harming him.

I am against circumcision and want to try to correct this problem on our own . any suggestions? 

Pardon me if I'm wrong but this all seems a bit suspicious.  This issue has been addressed in almost every thread on this forum.  it appears you came here and read nothing and just started a thread (or added on to one)

[CitizenKane]

Re Alenushka:
Actually no, they are the same structures during gestation and only change later in womb development. Identical anatomy except for the testes and ovaries. Read some early development anatomy books before you post ill conceived nonsense.