Non vax arguments :(

[BlueInTheEyes]

I'm super new here but I recently went through an incident that I can't seem to get over completely...

I deleted my facebook today.I had been thinking about it anyway but I was just tired of being upset and or/my feelings hurt by  people I would otherwise have no contact with.

The most recent incident was with a friend of mine who is pregnant and commented she was going to vaccinate her baby(which is fine with me,I've been trying really hard to not push my views on people and just let them do what they feel is best for their children.I used to get really upset when people would just choose not to breastfeed and things like that.Anyway,people just started chiming in about how vaccinating is the ONLY option and it's good to see that she's making GOOD decisions for her baby already.Anyway,I hadn't planned on arguing just stating 'to each their own' or something like that.Then people started saying 'well I don't want my kid to catch something from an unvaccinated kid before mine can get shots' etc etc and someone even said 'I vaccinate because I love my kids' which said to me that I don't love my son because I don't vaccinate.I don't know a ton about vaxes but I started throwing out what I do know since they thought they were know it alls. Anyway,it ended up a big mess and I apologized for how I acted..I should have just kept my mouth shut!

After hearing that I'm wrong from so many people,it really makes a me wonder...even though I know better!They just kind of made me feel bad!!My son is 4 and after doing the first 2 hep b vaxes(which I didn't want to do but my husband wasn't on board at that point,I belonged to a forum at the time and  had started looking into vaxes)..we stopped vaxxing. Just after being criticized so much,I kind of feel like a bad mom! I ended up posting on my fb about how I bf'ed,bw'ed,cd'ed,,cosleep and don't vaccinate..I was just fed up and wanted people to know what I'm about(but then about 24 hours later I deleted it for fear of non vax backlash IRL).

Anywho...any sympathizers out there?

Sorry if none of this makes sense

[lokidoki]

It is hard to be swimming up stream against so many that quickly swim downstream without a second thought. It is really tough to make educated decisions for your children and have to stand up for them. I absolutely have moments where I feel dogged for my decisions ~ especially regarding choosing not to vax my children.

One time my own minister kept posting post after post about the Gardisil vaccine and how wonderful it is ~ how many lives it is going to save, etc. While he is extremely liberal in his political views ~ he was bashing Michelle Bachmann for her statement regarding the vaccination mandate that she questioned Perry about at the debate. I pointed out that where there is a money trail there should certainly be room to question the motive. That was ALL I said ~ but he knows I am anti-vax so he asked me to keep my anti-vax opinions only to my page and went on to rave about how he had vaxed all 3 of his teenagers (2 are boys) and how wonderful this vaccine is to save so many lives. I was in total RAGE but quietly posted that I was sorry he thought my post was anti-vax ~ that I was merely pointing out that money bribes are an issue ~ and if Perry was "paid off" to mandate the vaccine ~ that was indeed a political issue regardless of the benefit or lack of benefits of the vaccine. He pissed me off and it has taken several months for me to get over. I absolutely think that he has every right to vax his children with this horrid vaccine ~ but I just get so mad when there is so much misinformation (aka the vaccine will save so many lives...as if to say that people are dropping dead from cervical cancer daily...which is NOT the case...and for those that do contract cervical cancer...this vaccine is NEVER going to reach them because they are dying from cervical cancer because they have never sought medical attention previously to get a pap smear). But I shut my mouth and kept on keeping on ~ recognizing that I have to fight for me and my family and hope that the rest of the world wakes up eventually.

[bygones75]

Hugs.  Yeah, I know it's difficult to always feel in the minority, and having to tolerate people saying offensive or ignorant things.

Something I've done lately is 1) Stop reading so much facebook.  I think you're smart to cancel the account and use your time better!  2) Start reading up on vaccines again.  I did so much research when my son first had vax reactions, but that was 6 years ago and my mommy memory is a little faulty.  So I'm picking up books and filling my brain with facts, figures... while I don't think they're the only part of making the decision not to vax (I do believe in a motherly intuition), it helps to bolster my confidence and remind me why we stopped vaccinating in the first place.

Hang in there.  You're not alone.  We may be in the quieter minority, but at the end of the day, remind yourself that it doesn't matter what other people think.  This is your child, and you made a decision you believe in.

[liqzierda]

Hang out with enough moms of vaccine injured kids and you won't feel apologetic more. Instead, you'll be livid. I hope for your sake you never end up in that club that now has thousands of moms on Facebook in it. You can lose everything that made your life worth living -- your child's heath, his future, his actual physical life, every dime you've ever earned, your marriage, your career, your sanity, all of your friends, your physical health and well-being, your home, your other children's futures and educations which you won't be able to afford.  What is worth on earth is worth that? No doctor incurs one penny of liability. The liability is all yours. The tears, the regret, the years of nights of lost sleep taking care of very, very sick children, the loss of health are all yours. Sadly, I am in this club times two.  I know way too many others. We didn't set out to be there, we had babies after the new millenium and here we are.

I just don't discuss it with people who don't get it because there's no point.  They live in their oblivious reality, I live in mine and unfortunately, I have LOTS of company.

[BeckyBird]

I'm so sorry Liqzierda

[modestmothering]

I hear you.  I also deleted my Facebook account because I felt like people in my virtual community were so different from me in my philosophy that I just didn't want the headache of having to explain my stance where there is plenty of material out there for any parent who is interested in gaining information about complex issues like vaccination.  Instead, I just blog about it and most people don't go out of their way to read what I write, which is great.  You're not alone. 

[BlueInTheEyes]

Liqzierda

It's good to hear from like-minded people and to know that I am not crazy and I'm not alone. Thanks guys

[boomer78]

I just want to send you some hugs. You're definitely not alone. And, believe it or not, I've been thinking lately about deleting my FB account for so many different reasons. It's hard not to argue about topis like vaccinating when people sometimes have inadequate information and yet it's pointless to argue.

[littlec]

Originally Posted by liqzierda 

Hang out with enough moms of vaccine injured kids and you won't feel apologetic more. Instead, you'll be livid. I hope for your sake you never end up in that club that now has thousands of moms on Facebook in it. You can lose everything that made your life worth living -- your child's heath, his future, his actual physical life, every dime you've ever earned, your marriage, your career, your sanity, all of your friends, your physical health and well-being, your home, your other children's futures and educations which you won't be able to afford.  What is worth on earth is worth that? No doctor incurs one penny of liability. The liability is all yours. The tears, the regret, the years of nights of lost sleep taking care of very, very sick children, the loss of health are all yours. Sadly, I am in this club times two.  I know way too many others. We didn't set out to be there, we had babies after the new millenium and here we are.

I just don't discuss it with people who don't get it because there's no point.  They live in their oblivious reality, I live in mine and unfortunately, I have LOTS of company.

I am so so sorry.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by cvdgnomes 

I would like all those who are considering not to vaccinate their children or who have not done so to read this very through and complete discussion of the subject. Thank you. Dave

http://www.msma.org/docs/communications/MoMed/President%20Pettett%20on%20Vaccinations%20Jan%20Feb%20MoMed.pdf

All I can say to that article is that whomever wrote it is SADLY misinformed about the reasons parents choose not to vaccinate. There are A LOT of questionable and false statements in that article...but thanks anyway.

[Taximom5]

The author of the article is listed  in that link, along with his email address.

Gary Pettett, MD, MSMA member since 1993 and current President, practices Neonatal- Perinatal medicine in Kansas City. Contact:  [e-mail]

Perhaps it might be a good idea to contact him and show him the studies--the peer-reviewed, scientific studies on PubMed--linking vaccines and autoimmune disorders, vaccines and food allergies, vaccines and seizure disorders, vaccines and brain damage, etc., as well as the studies showing that thimerosal and aluminum both have extremely serious effects.

I wonder what he would think of the study showing that infant boys given hep B have 3 times the likelihood of developing autism?  Clearly, he's never heard of that one, as he doesn't mention it.  Or the 1297 admitted and compensated cases of vaccine-induced brain damage...

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by cvdgnomes 

I would like all those who are considering not to vaccinate their children or who have not done so to read this very through and complete discussion of the subject. Thank you. Dave

http://www.msma.org/docs/communications/MoMed/President%20Pettett%20on%20Vaccinations%20Jan%20Feb%20MoMed.pdf

It's neither a thorough discussion nor a complete one, as it completely ignores the science showing how much more common severe adverse effects of vaccines are than most doctors believe.  It also ignores all the horrendous conflicts of interest and gross errors surrounding the studies that purport to show safety efficacy.

A half-truth is tantamount to a lie.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by cvdgnomes 

I would like all those who are considering not to vaccinate their children or who have not done so to read this very through and complete discussion of the subject. Thank you. Dave

http://www.msma.org/docs/communications/MoMed/President%20Pettett%20on%20Vaccinations%20Jan%20Feb%20MoMed.pdf

is that the only link you have to offer?   Frankly, i found it to be the same old, same old rhetoric i've been reading for about 3yrs now.  

[Marnica]

I think Dave is a troll....there are so many around here lately! What gives??

[cytrus]

Hi all, I am a chiropractor, and learned alot about vaccinations.  There is evidence based research out there that mainstream doc's should consider before injecting these poisons into the people in our society with the weakest immune systems.  At the end of the day its about monetary incentives from "big pharma".  There are ingredients that have been banned in other items that are still present in vaccines:

Thimerasol (mercury)-linked to neurological dysfunction

formaldehyde-enbalming fluid

aborted fetal tissue

Aluminum-linked to alzheimers

MSG

This website will tell you whats in certain vaccines.  Know that you made the BEST decision for your child. http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

On another note, many of my professors that NEVER vaccinated their kids had the the healthiest kids in school.  They never suffered from earaches, the common cold, or many of the other things that kept other kids out of school.  The only time they did see a doctor was if they broke a bone. 

[slmommy]

welcome Cytrus!

In regards to the Dave troll, I guess at least he was fairly respectful? compared to the others the last few days. Unfortunately his article offered not much.

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by cytrus 

Hi all, I am a chiropractor, and learned alot about vaccinations.  There is evidence based research out there that mainstream doc's should consider before injecting these poisons into the people in our society with the weakest immune systems.  At the end of the day its about monetary incentives from "big pharma".  There are ingredients that have been banned in other items that are still present in vaccines:

Thimerasol (mercury)-linked to neurological dysfunction

formaldehyde-enbalming fluid

aborted fetal tissue

Aluminum-linked to alzheimers

MSG

This website will tell you whats in certain vaccines.  Know that you made the BEST decision for your child. http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

On another note, many of my professors that NEVER vaccinated their kids had the the healthiest kids in school.  They never suffered from earaches, the common cold, or many of the other things that kept other kids out of school.  The only time they did see a doctor was if they broke a bone. 

Whenever I read a post from someone who claims that they are educated about vaccines, but then claims in the same breath that they contain aborted fetal tissue, my brain shuts off.

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 


Whenever I read a post from someone who claims that they are educated about vaccines, but then claims in the same breath that they contain aborted fetal tissue, my brain shuts off.

I'm glad you brought this up, I was (maybe still will) going to start a thread about this, because I am reading and seeing more things talking about the presence of human dna in MMR and Varicella, (others?)

Quote:

...the rubella component of MMR II was propagated in a human cell line derived from embryonic lung tissue (Merck and Co., Inc., 2010). The MMR II vaccine is contaminated with human DNA from the cell line...

 

...the chicken pox vaccine was grown in human fetal tissue (Merck and Co., Inc., 2001; Breuer, 2003)

 

http://www.cogforlife.org/ratajczakstudy.pdf (originally published in Journal of Immunotoxicology, 2011). (quotes on page 70)

 

She is attributing the human dna as a possible cause of autism, and she is a retired senior scientist from pharma company.

 

The human DNA from the vaccine can be randomly inserted into the recipient’s genes by homologous recombination, a process that occurs spontaneously only within a species. Hot spots for DNA insertion are found on the X chromosome in eight autism-associated genes involved in nerve cell synapse formation, central nervous system development, and mitochondrial function (Deisher, 2010). This could provide some explanation of why autism is predominantly a disease of boys. Taken together, these data support the hypothesis that residual human DNA in some vaccines might cause autism.

If the DNA and other cell debris present in these vaccines is not from the aborted fetal tissue, where is it from?

Even the Dr. Sears' books says CP vax contains "Residual components of the Merck human diploid cells, including DNA and proteins from the cells." 

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/human-fetal-links-some-vaccines

ETA: I realize that it is not literally the original tissue from the aborted fetus going into the vaccine, it is cell line from that tissue... but wouldn´t the dna be technically from said aborted fetus? I also read that they must use aborted fetuses as a miscarried fetus would probably have genetic problems. Is this incorrect?

Edited by slmommy - 2/22/12 at 5:39am

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 


Whenever I read a post from someone who claims that they are educated about vaccines, but then claims in the same breath that they contain aborted fetal tissue, my brain shuts off.

To slmommy:  Excellent points and questions, but too late!  Her brain shut off!

[slmommy]

thanks taxi... the links you pointed out!

I started a thread about this in main forum, does not need to get hidden here in I´m not Vaxing!