Obedience from 3 y/o?

[allisonrose]

Hubby defines a "good child" as an obedient child. I try and try to convince him otherwise but have been unsuccessful. Our 3 y/o is on the spirited side and rather high energy. When our 3 y/o "defies" dh, he feels like ds1 is being "bad". I think it is unreasonable to always expect such a young child to put aside what he would prefer to do to do what an adult is asking him to do. DH feels that our son is "disrespectful" to him because ds1 does not always do what dh asks of him.

How much obedience is reasonable to expect from a 3 y/o?

[Tjej]

I think respect is a two-way street.  It probably is true that your DS is being disrespectful.  It means he needs to learn how to treat your DH with respect.  Your DH also probably isn't being as patient or calm as he could be to make it easy for your DS to obey him. 

I tend to expect a lot of young kids and they generally live up to the expectations.  I think a 3yo can be respectful.  Not perfectly, not all the time, and they will need to be reminded of how to be polite and kind.  I tend to give a polite script to replace a disrespectful one. 

HTH

Tjej

[keeptryst]

Interesting insights regarding this topic in this article: http://www.waldorflibrary.org/Journal_Articles/bidding.pdf

[transylvania_mom]

Does your dh consider obedience as an adult virtue as well? Does he want ds to be an obedient adult?

[EarthRootsStarSoul]

Originally Posted by transylvania_mom 

Does your dh consider obedience as an adult virtue as well? Does he want ds to be an obedient adult?

Good questions.  This is a topic that needs discussion in the parenting community.  Are old-fashioned ideas of obedience really good for kids?  Is obedience really how the world works now?  I should say not. 

My kids are very self-motivated and I LOVE it!  They are always working on new projects.  They get an idea and they want to go for it, and I'm just like HELL YEAH!  Here are some supplies/ books/ whatever. 

You could say a child is ignoring you, or you could say the child has his own agenda for how he spends his time.  And the thing is, what the child wants to do often IS more interesting and developmentally appropriate than what the adult wants.  (within reason) 

[keeptryst]

Great advice here too: http://rixarixa.blogspot.in/2012/02/i-dont-know-much-but-what-i-know-works.html

[SweetSilver]

3yo is pretty young to "expect" obedience.  It's nothing personal to your dh.  The boy is not actively disrespecting him, he is just still impulsive and being himself.  Parents with no older children tend to expect more out of their oldest simply because they don't realize that 3yo is just past babyhood.  My girls are 5 and 7 now and I read this post and think "Really?"  But 4 years ago I also was expecting more good behavior out of my 3yo than she was ready for (and probably expecting too much from her as a 7yo).

I understand the desire for obedience fundamentally.  Obedience helps keeps kids safe on a primal level.  Obedience can also help maintain a hierarchy, which many parents feel keeps them from feeling like the cart horse that the child holds the reins to.  This, I think though, is not the only way to keep from feeling like the kids "rule".  In my home I think it is important for the girls to know that I can change my mind.  I like them to learn the art of negotiation, that things can be agreed upon by all and that everyone is respected.  But there are times when I am the one to put my foot down.  I can be a hard ass sometimes.  Mostly, though, I try to create a dialog with my girls about my expectations and how what they do can fit into that, or perhaps changing what those expectations are.  We try our best to treat each other with respect.

But this is a lot of talk to a high spirited 3yo.  You can't necessarily have a conversation while he's flying from the couch to the chair and back again.  But it is something that can begin to happen, as long as it is a long term goal and not immediate.  

Showing respect is a good habit, but I will say that while you can demand obedience, you cannot demand respect.  A basic respect, perhaps, but only a respect of tolerance, not a respect with admiration and love.  Many a child has grown up being perfectly obedient and absolutely hating that person.  If that is what a parent means by "respect", then that's a pretty poor definition.

This is kind of a rambly post, the cogs in my brain chugging along even as I write.  But I hope you can understand.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I too have a very spirited 3yo. I love him, he's wonderful, but he tries my patience daily. Asking doesn't work, telling doesn't work.

What DOES work (sometimes) is to ask for his "big boy" help with some big monumental (to a 3yo) task. It's his job to feed our kitty, so when I notice our kitty needs some more food in his dish, I say to my ds, "DS - Kitty needs some food! Can you be my big boy helper and help me feed the kitty?" in a very cheery voice. Then I get out the food bag (he's 3, he needs help to do his "chores" - so age appropriate expectations are a must), and let him scoop some kitty food into the dish. 

Or, I'll ask if he can help me take out the garbage (carry it for me - he can't reach so I go with him and carry a bag, and have him carry the littler bag). Of I have him help set the table - he takes the silverware, and sometimes the plates to the table while I carry the food. Asking him for help makes him feel needed and like he's really doing something to help out. When he feels like he's helping, he's less likely to misbehave.

Terrible twos? Ha. Terrible THREE's is more like it.

My ds is great, he's not "bad" - but man its frustrating when I'm riding the train home with him and he's fighting with me over each and every little thing the whole way! Thankfully that doesn't happen very much, but its still not fun.

[Halfasianmomma]

This is a regular issue in my household (I live with my parents) because my father, who is from a culture where respect for the elders is very important, constantly asks my DD why she "doesn't listen". Uh, cause she's 3. And VERY headstrong. Consequently, I EXPECT her to fight me on every.single.bloody.thing. Obedience doesn't even come into play here.

I've been reading up on this sort of thing a lot and have found that giving DD two choices, both of which I am comfortable with, works better than telling her "do x NOW", because that's guaranteed to cause a reaction. Whenever DD opposes anything (i.e. Me: "Dinner time!" , DD: "I don't wannaaaaa!", or Me: "Bath time!", DD: "LATER!!!"), or acts out (i.e. Me: "Please don't play with the dishwasher buttons", DD...looks at me and pushes the buttons), I try to remind myself that emotional and impulse control are very low at her age. I think that once I changed my expectations for DD, I wasn't as shocked that she was fighting me on everything.

Recently, I implemented a new strategy that seems to work very well. Whenever she tantrums, I calmly tell her that I love her but don't like it when she acts that way, and I leave the area, telling her that when she's done crying, she can come see me for a hug. Sometimes she'll tantrum for a long time, by herself in another room, but more and more she calms herself down, and comes to me sniffling.  

I've also used the "big kid" strategy SSM mentioned in her post...DD enjoys dressing herself WAY more than being wrangled to the floor and being FORCED to get dressed. Working on making her more independent has reduced the number of tantrums she has...but obviously, it hasn't eliminated them all!

[allisonrose]

Okay, a bit of clarification: as far as I know the disrespect is because he is disobedient.

 

Originally Posted by transylvania_mom 

Does your dh consider obedience as an adult virtue as well? Does he want ds to be an obedient adult?

That is a good question. My hubby is a former Army Officer so it is likely that he does view obedience as a good trait since the Army demands obedience from nearly every member since there's nearly always someone above you in rank.

Originally Posted by Tjej 

I think respect is a two-way street.  It probably is true that your DS is being disrespectful.  It means he needs to learn how to treat your DH with respect.  Your DH also probably isn't being as patient or calm as he could be to make it easy for your DS to obey him. 

I tend to expect a lot of young kids and they generally live up to the expectations.  I think a 3yo can be respectful.  Not perfectly, not all the time, and they will need to be reminded of how to be polite and kind.  I tend to give a polite script to replace a disrespectful one. 

HTH

Tjej

 Any advice on how to get children to live up to hig expectations?

Originally Posted by keeptryst 

Interesting insights regarding this topic in this article: http://www.waldorflibrary.org/Journal_Articles/bidding.pdf

Wow, that is interesting. 

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

3yo is pretty young to "expect" obedience.  It's nothing personal to your dh.  The boy is not actively disrespecting him, he is just still impulsive and being himself.  Parents with no older children tend to expect more out of their oldest simply because they don't realize that 3yo is just past babyhood.  My girls are 5 and 7 now and I read this post and think "Really?"  But 4 years ago I also was expecting more good behavior out of my 3yo than she was ready for (and probably expecting too much from her as a 7yo).

I understand the desire for obedience fundamentally.  Obedience helps keeps kids safe on a primal level.  Obedience can also help maintain a hierarchy, which many parents feel keeps them from feeling like the cart horse that the child holds the reins to.  This, I think though, is not the only way to keep from feeling like the kids "rule".  In my home I think it is important for the girls to know that I can change my mind.  I like them to learn the art of negotiation, that things can be agreed upon by all and that everyone is respected.  But there are times when I am the one to put my foot down.  I can be a hard ass sometimes.  Mostly, though, I try to create a dialog with my girls about my expectations and how what they do can fit into that, or perhaps changing what those expectations are.  We try our best to treat each other with respect. 

Two excellent points. I definitely have a different view of ds2 (1 year old) than I did of ds1 at the same age. Yes, I think part of this issue is who is in charge.
 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I too have a very spirited 3yo. I love him, he's wonderful, but he tries my patience daily. Asking doesn't work, telling doesn't work.

My ds is great, he's not "bad" - but man its frustrating when I'm riding the train home with him and he's fighting with me over each and every little thing the whole way! Thankfully that doesn't happen very much, but its still not fun.

Thanks. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

 

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma 

This is a regular issue in my household (I live with my parents) because my father, who is from a culture where respect for the elders is very important, constantly asks my DD why she "doesn't listen". Uh, cause she's 3. And VERY headstrong. Consequently, I EXPECT her to fight me on every.single.bloody.thing. Obedience doesn't even come into play here.

I've been reading up on this sort of thing a lot and have found that giving DD two choices, both of which I am comfortable with, works better than telling her "do x NOW", because that's guaranteed to cause a reaction. Whenever DD opposes anything (i.e. Me: "Dinner time!" , DD: "I don't wannaaaaa!", or Me: "Bath time!", DD: "LATER!!!"), or acts out (i.e. Me: "Please don't play with the dishwasher buttons", DD...looks at me and pushes the buttons), I try to remind myself that emotional and impulse control are very low at her age. I think that once I changed my expectations for DD, I wasn't as shocked that she was fighting me on everything. 

Yes, my hubby is also from a culture where respect for elders is paramount (Hispanic). He likes to talk about how his parents or aunts/uncles never would have tolerated such behavior from a child. Recently he said that he might be a bit jealous that our son doesn't get a beating for such behavior like he would have. Yet he also has said he thought we would raise our kids the way he was raised. (Okay getting a bit off track.)

I do choices as well: do you want to wear this shirt or this shirt? Lay in mommy bed or your bed? I mentioned that to hubby but I don't think he's given it a try yet.

[nextcommercial]

I also expect obedience from children.  I rarely have to deal with defiance.  

But, I make my requests reasonable, often they are actual choices, and rarely does it need to be obeyed immediately.  (When it's immediate, they know it and do it)

I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.  I am in charge, and they will do as I say.  But, that doesn't mean I don't expect occasional mistakes.  Kids can be too wound up to listen... If I try to yell over their play and expect obedience, I'm going to be frustrated because I'm doing it wrong... I need to settle them down, then tell them when I have their attention.

If it's "Go empty the dishwasher", I don't mean "THIS second"... But, it needs to be done, so the kids can finish what they are doing, then empty the dishwasher.  

But, if I say "STOP"... they all stop instantly.  "stop" is non negotioable, "walk" is non negotiable.  I don't say something ambiguous like "Slow down" because that's not clear enough.  If I say "Stop at that blue pole", they'd better all stop at that blue pole, or we are all done playing that game, and will go home.  I don't give warnings, or second chances on these things.  I have six kids here, and I need them to obey first, discuss later. 

I only bark orders when it's important.  The rest of the time is meant for fun and being kids.  

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I only bark orders when it's important.  The rest of the time is meant for fun and being kids.  

This is important.  allisonrose, does your dh tend to give orders a lot?  For relatively trivial things?  Sometimes kids learn to drown the parents out if orders come out every minute.  In fact, it can make some kids even more manic and crazy for some reason.  It is important that if we expect obedience that we are very careful to not expect them to walk in lock step all the time.  Kids should be allowed to be kids.  

If he is being too loud and rambunctious, instead of making the behavior stop he can be relocated.  "We are here and your voice hurts our ears.  Take your  shouts into the bedroom or outside."  This makes him aware of how his behavior affects others but also doesn't convey the idea that he might be a bad person for acting the way he does.  He should not be expected to act like an adult.

It also sounds like your dh is wanting help finding ways to get what he wants without the physical punishment he had as a kid.  I think it is very generous of him to honor "no spanking" etc. but if you just take away the rule and don't help change the tools he has available to him then that leaves him feeling lost and frustrated.  It is unreasonable to expect a child to behave like an adult, but it is not unreasonable to want a certain level of calmness, where adults can feel like they are not living inside a bouncy house with screaming children (for example).  And it is reasonable to not want to feel like a doormat.  

It is also unreasonable to think that a 3yo will figure out what is expected of him, just having been told once or twice or sometimes even a hundred times.  Impulse control is extremely hard.  

I like the analogy of the carthorse.  The child is in the driver's seat of the cart, holding the reins to the horse.  Where is the parent? The parent shouldn't be in the position of the horse, but sitting alongside the child helping him handle the horse and negotiate the road.  Sometimes the lesson to be learned is how kids can fit in around adults, but hopefully not at the expense of being aloud to be a kid.

[Halfasianmomma]

Oh, also something that popped up in my head: advance warning.

My DD sucks at dealing with sudden changes. Considering this, I give advance warning so that there is less drama. If today is a wash your hair day, then I mention it as soon as I get home from work, and a few times again before dinner, so that she knows way in advance. She also gets to choose if we do it before dinner or after. Also, she has started doing a lot of things herself, like dressing herself, brushing teeth and hair herself and rinsing the shampoo suds herself...all that stuff makes everything so much easier because she feels she is in control.

Recently, I've implemented the following strategy for when we go out, like a friend's place for dinner. Before we leave, I tell her what I expect of her in terms of behaviour (no tantrums or whining, and polite requests), and that if she doesn't behave, I won't hesitate to drop everything and go home. So far, I haven't had an issue.

[allisonrose]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I also expect obedience from children.  I rarely have to deal with defiance.  

But, I make my requests reasonable, often they are actual choices, and rarely does it need to be obeyed immediately.  (When it's immediate, they know it and do it)

I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.  I am in charge, and they will do as I say.  But, that doesn't mean I don't expect occasional mistakes.  Kids can be too wound up to listen... If I try to yell over their play and expect obedience, I'm going to be frustrated because I'm doing it wrong... I need to settle them down, then tell them when I have their attention.

If it's "Go empty the dishwasher", I don't mean "THIS second"... But, it needs to be done, so the kids can finish what they are doing, then empty the dishwasher.  

But, if I say "STOP"... they all stop instantly.  "stop" is non negotioable, "walk" is non negotiable.  I don't say something ambiguous like "Slow down" because that's not clear enough.  If I say "Stop at that blue pole", they'd better all stop at that blue pole, or we are all done playing that game, and will go home.  I don't give warnings, or second chances on these things.  I have six kids here, and I need them to obey first, discuss later. 

I only bark orders when it's important.  The rest of the time is meant for fun and being kids.  

 Okay maybe this is a silly question but why do they listen and obey? I'm sure some of your children are older than 3 but I am wondering what you have found works with this age group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

This is important.  allisonrose, does your dh tend to give orders a lot?  For relatively trivial things?  Sometimes kids learn to drown the parents out if orders come out every minute.  In fact, it can make some kids even more manic and crazy for some reason.  It is important that if we expect obedience that we are very careful to not expect them to walk in lock step all the time.  Kids should be allowed to be kids.  

If he is being too loud and rambunctious, instead of making the behavior stop he can be relocated.  "We are here and your voice hurts our ears.  Take your  shouts into the bedroom or outside."  This makes him aware of how his behavior affects others but also doesn't convey the idea that he might be a bad person for acting the way he does.  He should not be expected to act like an adult.

It also sounds like your dh is wanting help finding ways to get what he wants without the physical punishment he had as a kid.  I think it is very generous of him to honor "no spanking" etc. but if you just take away the rule and don't help change the tools he has available to him then that leaves him feeling lost and frustrated.  It is unreasonable to expect a child to behave like an adult, but it is not unreasonable to want a certain level of calmness, where adults can feel like they are not living inside a bouncy house with screaming children (for example).  And it is reasonable to not want to feel like a doormat.  

Yes, my hubby does tend to bark orders.

If ds1 is too ranbunctious, my hubby tends to just turn on the TV for him. My hubby would like him to be calm all the time. So he puts the TV on for him a lot because he'll sit and watch.

He doesn't honor a no spanking policy. The household policy is more along the lines of "don't ask, don't tell". I give suggestions to my hubby but I don't know if he takes them. He doesn't want to read books. He occasionally talks to other dads who tell him that their wives basically did everything child-rearing wise. (He works with a lot of retired career military guys - military wives often end up carrying the household since their hubbies are called away so much.) He admits he doesn't think spanking will work with our son for some things. Then says he doesn't know what to do. I want to give him tools but he is unsure how to use anything except negativity. And frankly I'm still figuring out a lot as a parent, myself.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I also expect obedience from children.  I rarely have to deal with defiance.  

But, I make my requests reasonable, often they are actual choices, and rarely does it need to be obeyed immediately.  (When it's immediate, they know it and do it)

I say what I mean, and I mean what I say.  I am in charge, and they will do as I say.  But, that doesn't mean I don't expect occasional mistakes.  Kids can be too wound up to listen... If I try to yell over their play and expect obedience, I'm going to be frustrated because I'm doing it wrong... I need to settle them down, then tell them when I have their attention.

If it's "Go empty the dishwasher", I don't mean "THIS second"... But, it needs to be done, so the kids can finish what they are doing, then empty the dishwasher.  

But, if I say "STOP"... they all stop instantly.  "stop" is non negotioable, "walk" is non negotiable.  I don't say something ambiguous like "Slow down" because that's not clear enough.  If I say "Stop at that blue pole", they'd better all stop at that blue pole, or we are all done playing that game, and will go home.  I don't give warnings, or second chances on these things.  I have six kids here, and I need them to obey first, discuss later. 

I only bark orders when it's important.  The rest of the time is meant for fun and being kids.  

Are your children spirited? My DS is persistent (on a scale of 1-5 he's about a 10), intense (about a 7-8 on the same scale), sensitive (about a 4-5), does not transition well, even with advance warning, and tests boundaries CONSTANTLY (I'm sure he'll be a great adult, and all of these are qualities that I want to nurture - but I'd also like for him to not scream at me for what seems like hours sometimes). I'm sure at least a little of this is because he is back and forth a bit, and most of his time with me is very structured (won't always be like this, but our visitation schedule can't be changed for a while - it sucks but there isn't anything I can do about it).

I wish there was some way that I could work with his personality a little better, but its a struggle. You say that you have to settle them down before getting them to listen - what techniques do you use? How do you settle them down?

I'm starting to think I just suck at parenting this age. I can't get ds to cooperate with me at all some of the time, and I think the rest of the time is just luck.

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Originally Posted by allisonrose 

 Okay maybe this is a silly question but why do they listen and obey? I'm sure some of your children are older than 3 but I am wondering what you have found works with this age group.

It's really just experience.  I've been doing this for so long, had so much training, that I know what works and what doesn't.  I know that saying "walk.... Okaaaaaaay?" really means "I have no backbone, and you shouldn't listen to me"    I have a Mom voice and a teacher voice, and I know how to use them.  I NEVER have to use time out.   They just happily work together, or pick up the slack for one who isn't cooperating.  No kid is perfect all the time, but they are always willing to help each other.  

Plus, since I don't need obedience very often, they know when I do need it, and they are willing to do whatever I ask, because I don't overuse the "now" voice.

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Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Are your children spirited? My DS is persistent (on a scale of 1-5 he's about a 10), intense (about a 7-8 on the same scale), sensitive (about a 4-5), does not transition well, even with advance warning, and tests boundaries CONSTANTLY (I'm sure he'll be a great adult, and all of these are qualities that I want to nurture - but I'd also like for him to not scream at me for what seems like hours sometimes). I'm sure at least a little of this is because he is back and forth a bit, and most of his time with me is very structured (won't always be like this, but our visitation schedule can't be changed for a while - it sucks but there isn't anything I can do about it).

I wish there was some way that I could work with his personality a little better, but its a struggle. You say that you have to settle them down before getting them to listen - what techniques do you use? How do you settle them down?

I'm starting to think I just suck at parenting this age. I can't get ds to cooperate with me at all some of the time, and I think the rest of the time is just luck.

Well, it's a group of kids.... no matter what anybody tells you, it's MUCH easier to have four or more kids than to have one.    It's not that you are doing it wrong, but it's just easier for me, because they have peer pressure.  You have one kid who can throw a wrench into all of your plans with one little tantrum.    My daughter didn't have many tantrums at that age, but at age six... Holy Cow.  And, socks????  Our lives revolved around her stupid sock issues.  I can't even tell you how many times we were late for something JUST because of socks.

[LynnS6]

It might help for your husband to distinguish 'obedience' from 'respect'.

I don't want my kids to be blindly obedient, but I do want them to be respectful even if they disagree. It's also easier to ask for obedience when it really matters if there's a basis of respect already. If my kids know that I won't ask them to drop everything they're doing unless it's urgent, they're more likely to respond quickly when I ask.

The problem is that at 3, kids haven't yet learned the language skills to be respectful while they disagree, and sometimes they'd really rather not do what you ask. Learning to express yourself politely and learning to put aside your own desires are skills that take time to develop. Years, in fact. I expect my kids to make mistakes when learning these things. At the same time, I expect age appropriate effort to working on the skills. And, there are some things that they simply cannot do (whack your brother, throw blocks at the windows, scream in my face).

Reading between the lines, I wonder if there are behaviors that you and your husband disagree about. You should be on the same page about what behaviors don't belong in your family, and it may take some negotiation. When you say that your dh is expecting your son to "put aside what he wants to do" and do what an adult asks, what do you mean ? I think it's reasonable for a 3 year old to be upset if you ask him to stop playing and get ready for bed, without having given him any warning. My kids both did much much better with more warning. I'd do the 5-3-1 minute reminders, or I'd give a warning and set the kitchen timer, saying "when the timer beeps, it's pajama time". I think the warning is simple respect on your part. I'd hate to be interrupted posting on MDC and told to do something now (and in fact, I've been known to get cranky with my kids when they've made such demands)

If it's rule-breaking or doing something annoying however, I don't think a 3 year old's desire to do something trumps an adult's request to stop. The question then is how you're asking him to stop. Are you saying "don't do that"? Are you saying "Stop! sit down." The second one will get much more compliance because you're clear on what he should do (phrasing things in terms of what he should do is always a good idea.) If a verbal command doesn't work, then it's time to gently help him comply. That's teaching him you mean what you say and that you'll follow through. If you only follow through sometimes, then he's going to push harder to not do what you ask, because you're letting him play the compliance lottery. "Sometimes mom/dad makes me, sometimes they don't. Which will it be this time? What are the risks of not doing it?" Intermittent reinforcement is a really powerful motivator. So, if your dh is expecting him to obey verbal commands all the time, I think he's got unreasonable expectations of where a child is in development. Dad needs to go to him, get down to his level, phrase the request in terms of what your son needs to do, and help him follow through, all while being calm.

[Tjej]

How to get them to live up to high expectations:

A lot of loving patience, explaining, coming to their level, modelling, repetition, consistency... mixed in with fun together and interesting experiences.  And realizing when expectations are unreasonable and finding a new way to make the family work well together. 

FWIW, I found that at some stages/ages, a child having a lot of choices can actually add frustration for them instead of making them feel empowered.  In our world, if they can handle choice without flipping out when they don't have a choice, they get more choices.  If they can't graciously accept that sometimes Mama does know best and they need to do what they're told (hold my hand in the parking lot to stay safe, dear...), then they get less choices and more practice obeying until they can more graciously accept what needs to happen.

I'm not saying my kids are perfect or I'm perfect.  No way.  But that's how I get them to live up to "high" expectations.

Tjej

[AllisonR]

A lot of very interesting posts. As others have mentioned, there is a huge difference between obedience and respect. In my opinion, respect is EARNED and vital. Obedience is not always good or even healthy.

Just an example - 30 years ago, people were obedient to their employeer, doing as told without thinking so much. But in return, they were safe with an income for 40 years. This is absolutly not true today, when free thinking, skilled and boundary-pushing creative minds do much better in the work force. 

My father was a conservative military man. I was obedient (and sometimes afraid) of my father. Otherwise I got an age-inappropriate lecture on my dissapointing faults, or a hit on the butt. So I was quite obedient to him, even though I am a very strong-willed person. Was our relationship useful or healthy? Absolutely not. Sometimes I loathed him, because he was unfair, which he was, even as I obeyed him. I was not always so obedient to my mother. But I respected her, and loved her, much more. Because she respected me. She sent the message that I wasn't just a young version of a person. I was my own, unique person. In giving me respect, I learned respect for others, and I respected her. 

Several posters mentioned choices. This also works very well for us. A 3 year old is very impotent, they have no power for themselves, their enviornment, often not even their own bodies. So it is very good to give them some choice, some power, when you can. And it does not take much to do this. Next time your DH gives an order, role model for him. If he says "DS, put on that shirt." You say "DH, give him a choice. Like this. DS, we are going out so you need a shirt on. Do you want the blue one or green one?"

Several posters mentioned that if you don't need obedience often, you will get it a lot more when you do ask. If he demands all the time, kids will tune it out. Plus, kids do learn what is really relevant and what isn't. So if everything is a demand, they see no system in it, no order, and they don't ever take it seriously. Role model for your DH next times he demands something irrelevant. "DH, is it really urgent that he puts on his socks right now? We are not going out. Could you ask him in a more gentle, non-demanding tone if he wants to put his socks on, or if he wants you to help him put them on?" Your DH just needs some time to learn this. He needs to think before he speaks. This is easier said than done. He needs to hold his tongue, think about what he is demanding, find out if it really is a serious demand or if it could just be an option or a comment. He will get better, if he practices. I promise. This didn't always come naturally to me. I only knew what I did NOT want to repeat from my upbringing, but I didn't naturally know always what to do. I had to practice. Maybe print out and let your DH read all these posts, maybe it will give him some ideas. 

"Do not run across that street" is a valid order. "Lower your voice" is not a valid order. How can it be changed? "DS, can you go to your bedroom, you can dance and shout in there." or "DS, I need you to lower your voice because I am on the phone. I can not hear when you are shouting." or touch him on the shoulder and face him and quietly say "DS, do you hear how I am talking now? It is more quiet. Can you try talking like this." And maybe more important than everything else, when he does lower his voice "Thank you DS. I like that voice!" Everyone likes concrete praise, especially if they are getting a lot of negatives otherwise. I don't mean that awful vague "good job" every time he lifts a finger. But when he has tried, remember he is 3, and if you think he really did try a "that is great you did XYZ" will counter the previous orders.