Measles panic in Indy

[KT'smama]

We are in one of the counties that have reported cases of Measles here in Indiana following the super bowl.   I think it's somewhere around 13-15 cases now. My daughter, who has low muscle tone and history of seizures up till 2 months old is not vaccinated at all.   She got really sick that week with high fevers and cough.  After the news broke about the outbreak in Indy I had a couple people tell me she must have Measles.  She did not...she did have pneumonia though.  She's only been on an antibiotic a couple times and this was one of them.  She is thankfully on the mend and pretty much over it.

But what I'm really here to talk about is the level of panic right now around us and how it's making me feel.  If you have a child who is not vaccinated then you are the devil and so is your child.    Facebook, the news, overheard conversations at the grocery are scary.  I can't believe how hateful people can be on this topic.  Most people don't know of our vaccination status and I don't bring it up ever and if I'm asked outright I say we delay.  Which we have...for years and will indefinitely.  

I usually feel 100% confident in my decision not to vaccinate her.   But right now I admit that I think I'm riding a bit on this fear...what if?  She has been sick...what if she's weaker because of it and then contracts Measles and it is bad because of that?  She starts back to dance class this week and I  have been feeling nervous about that, feeling like I need to hide out till this blows over.  I go back and forth on this. 

We are lucky to have a holistic dr who I trust to help us care for her if she were to contract Measles or any other disease.  I try to feed her a good diet, but she has some sensory issues that cut out a lot of food and we try to do vitamins and other supplements but that's when we can afford it.  I guess I'm just questioning if I've done enough and worrying that I haven't.  

I was on the CDC website earlier looking for information on the cases of measles last year and if those cases were vaccinated or not and how many deaths.  I can't find it.  Does anyone have a link to that?

I wanted to post it on a comment in a news article in the local paper where it's been stated that when outbreaks happen it's only non vaccinated people that get the disease.  I know that's not true.  Right now they are saying that all the people that have measles right now are not vaccinated.  That may be, I don't know.  The schools are making kids that are not up to date stay home.  Most of the most hateful comments are from people who say they are vaccinated so they know they are safe, but are angry at the rest of us for putting them at risk...if they believe they are safe, then why be so hostile?   

Thanks for reading, I'm tired and feel pretty scattered...hope I made sense. 

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by KT'smama 

We are in one of the counties that have reported cases of Measles here in Indiana following the super bowl.   I think it's somewhere around 13-15 cases now. My daughter, who has low muscle tone and history of seizures up till 2 months old is not vaccinated at all.   She got really sick that week with high fevers and cough.  After the news broke about the outbreak in Indy I had a couple people tell me she must have Measles.  She did not...she did have pneumonia though.  She's only been on an antibiotic a couple times and this was one of them.  She is thankfully on the mend and pretty much over it.

But what I'm really here to talk about is the level of panic right now around us and how it's making me feel.  If you have a child who is not vaccinated then you are the devil and so is your child.    Facebook, the news, overheard conversations at the grocery are scary.  I can't believe how hateful people can be on this topic.  Most people don't know of our vaccination status and I don't bring it up ever and if I'm asked outright I say we delay.  Which we have...for years and will indefinitely.  

I usually feel 100% confident in my decision not to vaccinate her.   But right now I admit that I think I'm riding a bit on this fear...what if?  She has been sick...what if she's weaker because of it and then contracts Measles and it is bad because of that?  She starts back to dance class this week and I  have been feeling nervous about that, feeling like I need to hide out till this blows over.  I go back and forth on this. 

We are lucky to have a holistic dr who I trust to help us care for her if she were to contract Measles or any other disease.  I try to feed her a good diet, but she has some sensory issues that cut out a lot of food and we try to do vitamins and other supplements but that's when we can afford it.  I guess I'm just questioning if I've done enough and worrying that I haven't.  

I was on the CDC website earlier looking for information on the cases of measles last year and if those cases were vaccinated or not and how many deaths.  I can't find it.  Does anyone have a link to that?

I wanted to post it on a comment in a news article in the local paper where it's been stated that when outbreaks happen it's only non vaccinated people that get the disease.  I know that's not true.  Right now they are saying that all the people that have measles right now are not vaccinated.  That may be, I don't know.  The schools are making kids that are not up to date stay home.  Most of the most hateful comments are from people who say they are vaccinated so they know they are safe, but are angry at the rest of us for putting them at risk...if they believe they are safe, then why be so hostile?   

Thanks for reading, I'm tired and feel pretty scattered...hope I made sense. 

People can be hostile about a subject in which they know very little about.  The question of why parents who vaccinate get mad at those of us who don't will NEVER be answered in a way that will satisfy me.  The only answer i seem to get is, "because its for herd immunity"...and thats their argument about it, and their only one it seems.   

if you are concerned about your daughter catching measles, then maybe keep her home til it blows over...you don't know who is in dance class that just got their MMR booster (due to media pressure),  and is shedding. 

Edited by emmy526 - 2/15/12 at 11:14am

[Mosaic]

emmy526, just a reminder that even in this subforum, we don't disparage those who choose to vax by calling them "brainwashed". You are definitely free to disagree with their decision and even how they arrived at that decision, but painting all vaxers as ignorant only contributes further to the hostility between the vax camps. Please edit your post.

OP, fear can be both good and bad. Unfortunately, it can motivate some people to be reactive and hostile, but it can also be a good motivator for you to revisit your decision and your research. Some think that the decision not to vax is a decision you make once; but many of us know that it's really a decision you make frequently, as risk profiles change. If this recent outbreak is making you reevaluate your decision, it could very well prove to be an opportunity to reaffirm your choice, ultimately giving you the confidence you need to deal with those who disagree.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

emmy526, just a reminder that even in this subforum, we don't disparage those who choose to vax by calling them "brainwashed". You are definitely free to disagree with their decision and even how they arrived at that decision, but painting all vaxers as ignorant only contributes further to the hostility between the vax camps. Please edit your post.
OP, fear can be both good and bad. Unfortunately, it can motivate some people to be reactive and hostile, but it can also be a good motivator for you to revisit your decision and your research. Some think that the decision not to vax is a decision you make once; but many of us know that it's really a decision you make frequently, as risk profiles change. If this recent outbreak is making you reevaluate your decision, it could very well prove to be an opportunity to reaffirm your choice, ultimately giving you the confidence you need to deal with those who disagree.

 I disagree Mosaic. I think you have misinterpreted Emmy's post- I do not think Emmy's posts paints all parents that choose to vax as ignorant brainwashed people. What she specifically said is that the HOSTILE people - the ones that paint non-vaxing parents as just the things you described are usually the ones that know very little on the subject. While a generalization,  I agree with this statement as this has been my personal experience as well. Parents that are educated about the topic, have done research and are relying on sources other than the media that ultimately decide to vaccinate their children (like most MDC moms) are generally NOT hostile and not the folks that Emmy is referring to. JMHO

[Mosaic]

Thanks for your thoughts, Marnica, and I respectfully disagree. She didn't say "People who are hostile are usually..." Even if I am totally misinterpreting her comment, chances are good that other members have/will, too, so modifying it slightly could avoid any further misunderstanding.

[sere234]

Those who have had an active measles infection or who have been vaccinated against the measles have immunity to the disease. Before widespread vaccination, measles was so common during childhood that most people became sick with the disease by age 20. The number of measles cases dropped over the last several decades to almost none in the U.S. and Canada. However, rates have started to rise again recently.

Some parents do not let their children get vaccinated because of unfounded fears that the MMR vaccine, which protects against measles, mumps, and rubella, can cause autism. Large studies of thousands of children have found no connection between this vaccine and autism. Not vaccinating children can lead to outbreaks of a measles, mumps, and rubella -- all of which are potentially serious diseases of childhood. From the US National LIbrary of Medicine

I'm also in central Indy. My kiddo is almost 18 mo and not vaccinated for measles but I'm not to worried about it. We eat healthy, he breastfeeds, and we try to keep our hands clean when out and about. From what I've read, measles was a pretty common illness back in the day though some sites said 1 in 1,000 infected will die. What is that, a .01% chance? Could be foolhardy but I'm okay with not vaccinating for this, even though it's in our area.

I do agree with Mosaic though, if this is something you really are worried about, maybe you should think about getting the MMR for your daughter. Or maybe just hang out mostly at home until the threat lessens!

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by sere234 

I do agree with Mosaic though, if this is something you really are worried about, maybe you should think about getting the MMR for your daughter. Or maybe just hang out mostly at home until the threat lessens!

The problem is, the issues that could make a child at risk for complications for measles also make the child at risk for complications from vaccines.

[GoddessKristie]

I have been following this situation and what I find shocking is the number of people who are touting religious oppression and religious segregation by saying that these religious exemption kids should not be allowed in schools! They're saying things like "If you choose not to get your kids vaccinated then keep them out of our schools and out of public!" 

Unbelievable!

[KT'smama]

I have done some reading the last few days...got out all my vax books and am again glad I have chosen not to vaccinate her.  

Taximom is right...besides the fact that she's been very ill with pneumonia, she also has hypotonia.  She also had a few seizures as an infant and has some sensory issues.  I wouldn't vaccinate her now anyway because of her illness...and I didn't want to vaccinate her before because of the neuro issues.  

Does anyone know how to find the information about how many cases of Measles last year were in vaccinated people?

[KT'smama]

GoddessKristie....I just read a comment just like that on a news channel FB page.     I totally, totally agree with you!  

Some of the comments are just unbelievable!

[GoddessKristie]

Originally Posted by KT'smama 

GoddessKristie....I just read a comment just like that on a news channel FB page.     I totally, totally agree with you!  

Some of the comments are just unbelievable!

LOL that was probably me! That's where I'm reading a lot of these types of comments and I just couldn't resist saying something about it! 

I have family in Indiana who have been affected and I know that the state board of health called them and asked A LOT of questions, including if they have been vaccinated or not. So, if anyone is curious how many of the currently affected in Indiana have been vaccinated I'm sure you could call the state board of health and find out. Interestingly, I haven't seen that figure anywhere in the news yet. I wonder if the CDC keeps a record of that distinction.

[GoddessKristie]

I looked on the CDC page for measles and under outbreaks, each individual article tells how many infected were vaccinated. 

Quote:

Of the 118, 105 (89%) patients were unvaccinated.

I haven't found any year long totals, just the ones for each individual outbreak.

[KT'smama]

Thanks!  I looked forever on CDC the other night and just got frustrated.   It is not easy to find anything there.

Right now they are saying all those infected here on unvaccinated...but I read this last night and was sooo irritated.  

Quote:

Parents first learned about the now confirmed outbreak through an email that mentions a family of five who had been immunized but Were showing symptoms. 

"All of those children had their vaccinations and that's why theyre saying its highly, highly unlikely," said Booth. 

In other words, that family was not the threat.  One infectious disease specialist believes they could have contracted anothervirus because she says 95 percent of people who have received the first shot will be immune to the measles.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-noblesville-schools-to-offer-clinic-for-students-staff-in-wake-of-measles-outbreak-20120215,0,3689788.column

[HopefulJo]

I live in the county where most the cases are (and in the town referenced in the linked news article above!) with a 13 mo old who hasn't had his MMR. I've weighed in on a few Facebook discussions, and can confirm that, yes, there's an unnecessary level of panic locally. 

I'm not panicking, though, because recent events have given me some perspective. My toddler just got over the chicken pox last week, and, while he was in the midst of it & pretty uncomfortable, it reminded me of the reality of choosing to not vax or delay vaxing: We're willing to risk the infection of the disease rather than the shot on the schedule. We make a judgement call- which do we perceive as riskier? For rare diseases like polio, the risk of exposure is low. For mild diseases, like chicken pox, the risk of complications from the disease is low. With whooping cough and measles and other "in the middle" diseases that are still out there in the wild, it's up to us as parents to weigh the risks. If we choose not to vax, it's because we're making the decision that the disease (or probability of exposure to the disease) is less likely to be harmful than the vax itself. Parents shouldn't be panicking, because they've made this decision, one way or the other, for their family already, and are hopefully comfortable with their decision.

Last I heard around here, all the cases are unvaxed people. It all started when someone from another country brought the disease over and visited a large church nearby, and it spread from there. So far, no measles in our house!

[sere234]

So I'm just wondering: Why are vaccinated people are getting so very upset by us unvaccinated folk? Their vaccinations should "protect" them, right? Is it just all something to get mad about?

We don't watch much TV, I hang out with mostly people who are pretty much like me, and we don't get the newspaper. I haven't heard much at all everyone getting so angry about all of this. I need to go find all these outraged people! Feeling pretty sheltered at the moment!!

BTW, DS has his 18 mo well baby check up next week. I wonder if our doc will mention anything about this to us....

ETA- So I just went and read a local news FB page and OH WOW. People are really angry about this, aren't they? I just had to stop reading it was so awful.

Edited by sere234 - 2/16/12 at 2:12pm

[sere234]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

The problem is, the issues that could make a child at risk for complications for measles also make the child at risk for complications from vaccines.

And oh, I totally agree!!

[KT'smama]

I should just stop looking at all the nasty comments on the news sites and on FB.  It just makes me mad and upset.  Upset because I would hate for people to treat my kid with so much disgust and fear if they knew she was not vaccinated.  I took my daughter to dance class and overheard some of the other mom's going on about non vax kids.  I just pretended to read my book and stayed out of it.  I'm not brave enough to get into all our reasons for not vaxing out in public like that.  And I am not a person who is good with confrontation...my facts would fly right out of my brain.  

[Taximom5]

KTsmama, please consider taking your child to a pediatric developmental specialist (aka "developental pedatrician")(if you haven't already done so). Many of the kids with autism had hypotonia, sensory issues, and seizure disorders that all began in infancy but were made much, much worse by vaccines.

The developmental specialist probably won't know anything about vaccine links to these issues, but may be able to get you set up with OT for the hyptonia and sensory issues.  Early intervention makes a world of difference.

There are many things that can cause autism besides for pediatric vaccines. You may have been given Rhogam or a flu shot when you were pregnant, or you may have eaten a lot of tuna or mercury-containing fish, you may have had "silver" (actually mercury amalgam) dental fillings done while you were pregnant, or you may have had some other kind of heavy metal exposure.  You and/or your child may have undiagnosed celiac disease, which causes all kinds of vitamin deficiencies that literally predispose you to vaccine reaction.  Vitamin D deficiency is a good example--without vitamin D, we don't produce glutathione--and glutathione is what the body uses to excrete heavy metals, like mercury or aluminum.

In my own case, I had hyperemesis compounded by undiagnosed celiac,which resulted in vitamin deficiencies for both me and the baby.  One of the symptoms of celiac was unrelenting GERD, which was treated by acid blockers--which caused B12 deficiency (you NEED the acid to properly abosrb the B12 in your vitamin!).

Baby and I BOTH had severe reactions to vaccines.

Oh--seizure disorders are linked with gluten intolerance, too: 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17122729 

Epilepsy and celiac disease: favorable outcome with a gluten-free diet in a patient refractory to antiepileptic drugs.

 

http://www.healthnowmedical.com/blog/2011/05/24/gluten-intolerance-seizures-–-confirmed-by-neurologist/

[KT'smama]

taximom~thanks for the information.  It's interesting you posted that because I was just reading about Celiacs disease today.  I have a friend recently diagnosed and just wanted to learn more.  

My daughter had been in OT and PT since she was about 6 months old.  She had some developmental therapy and speech therapy as well.   We were released in December.  She'll be 5 soon and she is doing amazingly well.  

I believe that if she were to be vaccinated there would be some repercussions...don't know how severe but something.  My oldest child was fully vaccinated as were my husband and myself.  In fact, I never questioned vaccines until the day my youngest was born.  In the delivery room when they asked me about the heb b I had had this feeling rise up in my chest, not really panic, but a "knowing" that NO...I did not want that for my child.  It was a few weeks later when we started realizing something was wrong that we began this journey of learning about vaccines.  As her 2 month visit approached and we had had 2 seizures following choking episodes I just felt it was not right to do...I kept researching, ordering books, talking to different dr.'s we saw...and came to the conclusion that my mommy instinct was dead on.  I just wish so much that I'd known when my oldest was little.  She had a reaction to the DTP shot  when she was 5 (she's 20 now)  and her entire arm swelled so bad she couldn't bend at the elbow.  They put her on abx and told me to give her tylenol, that it was normal and happened sometimes.  I never questioned it!  I was so young and dumb. 

I will definitely look at the links you posted.  Thank you again!