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How to get around mandatory flu shot? - Page 2

post #21 of 38

This is what is called "one dog study"

Even the authors conseed that it is "exterimely rare complication"
 

post #22 of 38

Alenushka, the 60%  effectiveness does NOT mean that 60% who receive the shot are protected. One would think that that 's exactly what it means (and so the pharmaceutical industry hopes), but it's not. 

 

What it means is that there is a 60% difference between the number of vaccinated individuals who got the flu (1.4%) and the number of unvaccinated people who got the flu (2.9%).    Even without the flu shot, 97% of those in the study did NOT get the flu. 

 

Obviously, if it were reported that way, very few people would bother to get the flu shot, particularly with the latest studies indicating a strong link between the aluminum in the flu shot and autoimmune disorders. Why take such a risk if the shot is so ineffective, and if you're unlikely to get the flu, and even less likely to develop complications from the flu anyway?


Edited by Taximom5 - 2/28/12 at 3:13pm
post #23 of 38

nm

post #24 of 38

I'm really sorry for your situation, OP.  In your shoes, assuming that you believe in ANY KIND of higher power that views your body as your temple and wants you to protect it....go ahead and claim the religious exemption this year to buy time for next year.

 

Meanwhile.....get a hold of National Nurses United, the country's largest nurse's union, to see what kind of steps to take next.  http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/

 

I know that they are opposed to compulsory workplace flu vaccination, and I'm thinking that this is the time to get in touch with people from your own field instead of MDC mamas.  Even if you're not actually nurse (you didn't say....???), they may be able to help you.  I know that in NYS, nurses banded together to file a lawsuit against the state for enforcing this abhorrent practice.  Good luck!

post #25 of 38

Amazing.

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

Perhaps we should allow healthcare not to wash their hands or use gels. You know the soaps and gels are full of chemicals.

 

The patients population in the hospital is different. They are more likely to develop flue, complications and die.

 

 

Every year anywhere from 5 to 20% of American develop flu ( 5 to 20 people out of 100 will get ill).  Around 200,000  are hospitalizations and 3,000 to 49,000 die, ( FDA said.)

 

Those are not trivial numbers

 

 

 

post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

 

 

 


How can one care about patients if they don't care about themselves first?

 

If someone feels that the flu shot is risky for themselves after much research, then shouldn't we respect their care of their own body?  I would think that someone from a former communist country would respect that this is a society in which the individual is valued.

 

A patient is more likely to develop MRSA in the hospital than the flu.

 

The numbers you quoted are inaccurate, regardless of what the FDA is trying to sell you.  I know a lot of people who say they have the flu, but it lasts 3 days with no fever.  That's not the flu.  It's a cold.

 

post #27 of 38

Between 3000 & 49000...so they're unsure if FORTY-SIX THOUSAND people died of the flu...or not?  Does it not make you wonder why there is such a HUGE gap in those numbers?  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Amazing.

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

Perhaps we should allow healthcare not to wash their hands or use gels. You know the soaps and gels are full of chemicals.

 

The patients population in the hospital is different. They are more likely to develop flue, complications and die.

 

 

Every year anywhere from 5 to 20% of American develop flu ( 5 to 20 people out of 100 will get ill).  Around 200,000  are hospitalizations and 3,000 to 49,000 die, ( FDA said.)

 

Those are not trivial numbers

 

 

 


 

 

post #28 of 38

I mistyped. is is 30K to 43K

post #29 of 38

I find this whole issue very confusing.

 

I would actively avoid going into nursing at this point in time, knowing vax status was a prerequisite.  

 

This does not do much good for those who are already in nursing and are faced with stipulations they didn't sign on for when they were first hired.  I do know organisation have the right to change rules, but this one is around body integrity, so it is a huge deal, IMHO.  

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  Forcing (and it is close to forcing as it involves peoples livelihoods) people to vax based on predictions of which flu is coming seems questionable.  It isn't even a certainty and some years the predictions are wrong!

 

My youngest was recently in the hospital for pneumonia (she is now home and well smile.gif).  She was in isolation as they though she might be contagious.  Half the ward was in isolation.  The nurses put on a new gown and mask every time they entered our room.  Perhaps that sort of procedure could be used to prevent the spread of flu for those who decline vaccines?  Another idea:  people (especially nurses) who are sick should not go to work!  We need to work on creating work environments where people feel they can take time off of work for illness without being penalized.  I do know people are often contagious before they exhibit symptoms - but still.    Want to know how my daughter got pneumonia?  A person who was actively coughing went to work, gave the cough to my husband who brought it home and gave it to everyone in my family.  In my youngest it turned into pneumonia.  

 

Even if the pro-vax side is 100% right about flu vaccines…I am not sure we should force nurses (or anyone else, for that matter) to accept the vax.  People should not be forced to do things to their own body that they are uncomfortable with.  It is a body integrity issue for me. 

 

 

post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  Forcing (and it is close to forcing as it involves peoples livelihoods) people to vax based on predictions of which flu is coming seems questionable.  It isn't even a certainty and some years the predictions are wrong!

 

My youngest was recently in the hospital for pneumonia (she is now home and well smile.gif).  She was in isolation as they though she might be contagious.  Half the ward was in isolation.  The nurses put on a new gown and mask every time they entered our room.  Perhaps that sort of procedure could be used to prevent the spread of flu for those who decline vaccines?  Another idea:  people (especially nurses) who are sick should not go to work!  We need to work on creating work environments where people feel they can take time off of work for illness without being penalized.  I do know people are often contagious before they exhibit symptoms - but still.    Want to know how my daughter got pneumonia?  A person who was actively coughing went to work, gave the cough to my husband who brought it home and gave it to everyone in my family.  In my youngest it turned into pneumonia.  

 

 

 


I'm glad your daughter is doing better!

 

My youngest was born at the beginning of the H1N1 hysteria, meaning there was no vax for it yet.  She was in the NICU and the only restrictions were that only parents were allowed to visit, so no siblings or grandparents, etc.  Masks, gowns, etc. were not required, just thorough handwashing before entering the unit, as always.  You want to talk about vulnerable populations - the NICU patients are it.  Yet visitors are treated with respect and no demands are made on their personal decisions, other than asking for common sense (no fever, coughing, sneezing; wash hands vigorously).

 

 

post #31 of 38

My mother is  a nurse and she doesn't get the flu shot.  What she has to do is wear a face mask all day at work.  At first she was annoyed but what can she really do other than quit her good paying job and do something else?  Not feasible.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I find this whole issue very confusing.

 

I would actively avoid going into nursing at this point in time, knowing vax status was a prerequisite.  

 

This does not do much good for those who are already in nursing and are faced with stipulations they didn't sign on for when they were first hired.  I do know organisation have the right to change rules, but this one is around body integrity, so it is a huge deal, IMHO.  

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  Forcing (and it is close to forcing as it involves peoples livelihoods) people to vax based on predictions of which flu is coming seems questionable.  It isn't even a certainty and some years the predictions are wrong!

 

My youngest was recently in the hospital for pneumonia (she is now home and well smile.gif).  She was in isolation as they though she might be contagious.  Half the ward was in isolation.  The nurses put on a new gown and mask every time they entered our room.  Perhaps that sort of procedure could be used to prevent the spread of flu for those who decline vaccines?  Another idea:  people (especially nurses) who are sick should not go to work!  We need to work on creating work environments where people feel they can take time off of work for illness without being penalized.  I do know people are often contagious before they exhibit symptoms - but still.    Want to know how my daughter got pneumonia?  A person who was actively coughing went to work, gave the cough to my husband who brought it home and gave it to everyone in my family.  In my youngest it turned into pneumonia.  

 

Even if the pro-vax side is 100% right about flu vaccines…I am not sure we should force nurses (or anyone else, for that matter) to accept the vax.  People should not be forced to do things to their own body that they are uncomfortable with.  It is a body integrity issue for me. 

 

 



 

post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  


The latest information suggests that the effectiveness of the flu vaccine is 59% for age group 18-65.

 

The 59% does NOT mean that 59% of those receiving the vaccine would be protected from the flu.

 

THat number was determined by comparing vaxed and unvaxed populations: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%2970295-X/abstract

 

1.2% of the vaccinated group caught the flu compared with 2.7 of the non-vaccinated group.  The difference between 1.2 and 2.9 = 59%.

 

In other words, 97% of the non-vaccinated group didn't catch the flu anyway.

 

For more discussion of the risks and purported benefits of the flu shot, see http://naturalsociety.com/a-flu-vaccine-timeline-the-recent-history-revolving-around-vaccine-dangers/

 

post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

My mother is  a nurse and she doesn't get the flu shot.  What she has to do is wear a face mask all day at work.  At first she was annoyed but what can she really do other than quit her good paying job and do something else?  Not feasible.
 



 


I wonder if she's less of a risk to her patients than the vaccinated, but unmasked staff since the mask might offer some protection against so many more things?

 

post #34 of 38


Not sure, she can't get the flu shot.  She did before but it caused her Guillian Berre to go out of remission.  I can never spell that right.  So they actually can't even force her to do it. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelsmama View Post


I wonder if she's less of a risk to her patients than the vaccinated, but unmasked staff since the mask might offer some protection against so many more things?

 



 

 

post #35 of 38

 

Actually, the OP didn’t ask for everybody’s personal feelings or moral lectures re: the flu shot.  She asked for simple advice, not the apparent thread-jacking that’s underway.

 

But now that all of that is out there, she is being blackmailed into “consenting” to a decidedly anti-science hospital policy.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005187.pub3/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001269.pub4/abstract

 

As a health care consumer, I’m inclined to distrust institutions that not only bully their own employees in this manner, but also turn a cold shoulder and deaf ear toward evidence-based practice.  The OP’s employer clearly fits this bill, and it's up to us as consumers to hold their feet to the fire.     

post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

 

Every year anywhere from 5 to 20% of American develop flu ( 5 to 20 people out of 100 will get ill).  Around 200,000  are hospitalizations and 3,000 to 49,000 die, ( FDA said.)

 


Interesting given everyone I know gets a flu shot every single season.  Doctors offices, pharmacies, even non medical places push it like crazy.  I guess the shot isn't that effective?  Or at best only slightly above 50% effective?  

 

post #37 of 38

It's given every season because the dominant strains of flu vary from year to year.

post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

It's given every season because the dominant strains of flu vary from year to year.



except for this year...all the reports i heard/read of were saying this year's flu is the same as last year's flu, but everyone should get vaccinated again anyway.  

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