Why so much mainstream hatred for non-vaxers? - Page 9

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Ouch.   Self-inflicted to me means "brings it on yourself."  A loved one excluding a family or friend over vax status is the choice of the excluder…it is not the non-vaxxers fault.  It sounds a little like blaming the victim. 

I was not assigning fault merely pointing out that most of the time conflict can be avoided my simply not offering up vaccination status. Just like any medical decision, it's not necessary to share. Other than medical professionals and the school, I've never had anyone ask about my children's vaccination status other than a couple of Judgy McJudgersons at an AP/natural parenting meeting, so this is not something I've found to be difficult.  

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

I was not assigning fault merely pointing out that most of the time conflict can be avoided my simply not offering up vaccination status. Just like any medical decision, it's not necessary to share. Other than medical professionals, I've never had anyone ask about my children's vaccination status other than a couple of Judgy McJudgersons at an AP/natural parenting meeting, so this is not something I've found difficult to do.  

Cool  - thanks for clarifying

[nia82]

Troll alert. Don't feed the trolls. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

I know some non-vaxers have faced actual discrimination in real life, but I think at least some of it might be self-inclicted.  

edited to fix typos 

I don't think you know first-hand what you are talking about.

ALL non-vaxers face actual discrimination, not just some. The discrimination we face is from daycare centers, preschools, schools, doctors, church/synagogue, and workplace, ALL of which have vaccine policies that punatively discriminate against those who do not vaccinate--even if the reason for not vaccinating is previous severe reaction to vaccines.  

If you had to face that kind of discrimination yourself, I don't think you'd state that "some of it might be self-inflicted."  (I'm assuming you meant to write "self-inflicted" rather than "self-inclicted.")

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by nia82 

Troll alert. Don't feed the trolls. 

Perhaps we should report the trolls?

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Perhaps we should report the trolls?

I reported her several times last night.  MDC on the ball as usual.

[purslaine]

We actually have vaxxers on here defending us….

Fwiw, I do not think anyone is (by default) an awful parent or child abuser for vaxxing, either.  

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

ALL non-vaxers face actual discrimination, not just some. The discrimination we face is from daycare centers, preschools, schools, doctors, church/synagogue, and workplace, ALL of which have vaccine policies that punatively discriminate against those who do not vaccinate--even if the reason for not vaccinating is previous severe reaction to vaccines. 

Ack.  I think some of this regional.  I have had to fill out a form with the local health unit so my kids could go to school, which is a step vaxxers do not have to take, but I do not consider it discriminatory.  I have told daycares - no one cared.  They have been to camps, workshops, etc…no one asked and I doubt they would have cared.

Most doctors have treated me well, although some have tried to change my mind.  One nurse was rude, but whatever.  

Overall it has not been a big deal.

I do know it has been a very big deal to numerous posters, and I am not trying to diminish the issue (some stories and news broadcasts have shown awful discrimination)…I just don't think ALL non-vaxxers face discrimination.  The world is a big place.  

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

I don't think you know first-hand what you are talking about.

ALL non-vaxers face actual discrimination, not just some. The discrimination we face is from daycare centers, preschools, schools, doctors, church/synagogue, and workplace, ALL of which have vaccine policies that punatively discriminate against those who do not vaccinate--even if the reason for not vaccinating is previous severe reaction to vaccines.  

If you had to face that kind of discrimination yourself, I don't think you'd state that "some of it might be self-inflicted."  (I'm assuming you meant to write "self-inflicted" rather than "self-inclicted.")

Actually in my state non-vaxers face less problems with the schools that selective/delayed vaxers of which I am one.  It's all or nothing here.  I might be facing a conflict with the school system when my son starts preschool over Hep A and a fourth Hib.  Anyway, I was talking more about social situations like friends and family.  You can continue to feel you know more than me and point out my typos if it makes you feel better though.    

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

ALL non-vaxers face actual discrimination, not just some. The discrimination we face is from daycare centers, preschools, schools, doctors, church/synagogue, and workplace, ALL of which have vaccine policies that punatively discriminate against those who do not vaccinate--even if the reason for not vaccinating is previous severe reaction to vaccines.

And might I ask, why would a church or synagogue know anyone's vaccination status?  I think I'd find a new place of worship if immunization records were requested.   

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Ack.  I think some of this regional.  I have had to fill out a form with the local health unit so my kids could go to school, which is a step vaxxers do not have to take, but I do not consider it discriminatory.  I have told daycares - no one cared.  They have been to camps, workshops, etc…no one asked and I doubt they would have cared.

Most doctors have treated me well, although some have tried to change my mind.  One nurse was rude, but whatever.  

Overall it has not been a big deal.

I do know it has been a very big deal to some poster, and I am not trying to diminish the issue (some stories and news broadcasts have shown awful discrimination)…I just don't think ALL non-vaxxers face discrimination.  The world is a big place.  

kathymuggle, I'm glad to hear it hasn't been much trouble for you.

I have had a lot of trouble with schools, even though I have provided a doctor-signed medical exemption form, EVERY YEAR.  My oldest was told he wouldn't receive his classroom assignment until he got his vaccines, even though the form was in place.  My younger children are shown cartoon videos on why they shouldn't be afraid to get vaccines and how good vaccines are for them.

 My workplace very strongly hypes flu shots  (offered on-site) , and we are told that we are charged higher health insurance rates because we don't have 100% vaccination compliance.

I am lucky that our pediatrician is very supportive, but most pediatricians in our area refuse to treat non-vaxed or delayed-vax children.

I have had to turn away a nurse with a loaded syringe in the ER, of all places. She had apparently been told that we needed a flu shot (we were there for a possible broken wrist (which wasn't).

Church and synagogue babysitting rooms in our area request that parents of unvaxed infants and toddlers keep their children home.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

And might I ask, why would a church or synagogue know anyone's vaccination status?  I think I'd find a new place of worship if immunization records were requested.   

We must have cross-posted--I answered this in my last post.

[Imakcerka]

I can see Taxis point about the flu vaccine issue.  It was pushed on us where I work.  However it's not mandatory.  And again I work with military now just not in uniform.  The other stuff is not something I have seen.  I have known people to feel the need to tell people their vaccination status and I wonder if they'd do the same with medical issues... oh wait people do that too.  I never told anyone I was not getting the flu vaccine, but it came out somehow and I was questioned about it.  And I said, I have an AI.  And everyone around understood... odd... they understood.  Could be that more and more people are aware. 

[Imakcerka]

I've always noticed that when people make changes in their life they feel like they need to tell people.  Like the creepster I worked next to for half the year needed to tell me about his new path to god.  I found it annoying.  But it was his new belief and he needed to tell everyone.  Those who didn't believe what he was saying was lost.  Or stupid... or both.  And definitely uninformed.

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 1:29pm

[SweetSilver]

We see this kind of thing when an issue gets to the forefront of societal debate.  When non-vaxers are not mainstream, when they are the religious fanatics who refuse to vax and who also don't seek or see wisdom in the medical profession, "we" shake our heads in disapproval and exasperation and get on with things.  "They" are not "us".  That sort of thing does not impact greater society.  But when non-vaxers become part of the mainstream and the debate becomes focussed not on the "kooks" who don't vaccinate, but focussed instead on questioning the paradigm of protecting all of society by vaccinating our children, then the debate gets driven home.  The issue cannot hide behind the cover of what society sees as people on the margins.  Now we have to discuss vaccinations on their own terms.

I think nobody but nobody loves vaccinations, especially today when a tiny infant will get four or more shots (for 7 or more diseases) in one go.  It is only by absolute faith in medical "wisdom" that some of us do this.  And those parents get testy (to say the least--yeesh!) when some parents choose to forgo that.  It's like the children of non-vaxers will be little disease vectors with legs, tramping around ready to infect everyone.  Or that vaxers' children are taking the blows so that other little children can reap the benefits-- as if they were little soldiers risking their lives in the defense of our freedom.

It's not as if they don't have ammunition to their arguments at all.  I mean reasonable reasons, not the bile that we've seen here.  Whooping cough cases *are* on the rise here in our state, and we have one of the largest non-vaxed populations in the country, mostly for religious reasons.  Arguments of cause and effect aside, it is a reasonable point of debate anyhow.  What the vehement pro-vaxers don't have, though is a very good argument for the vaccinations as a whole as they are given.  This is why I "crossed over" in some ways, though not entirely, because I was able to look at each vaccine, why it is recommended to give to children, the seriousness of each disease, issues of toxins and potential side effects.  That's not to say everybody giving this issue serious time and thought will end up no-vax or even selective like me, but certainly it would bring you to a place where one can have a rational debate with others who disagree, not making blanket accusations of child abuse. or sneering at the protective instincts a parent has for their children.

Edited by SweetSilver - 2/19/12 at 4:59pm

[AdinaL]

LucyLoretta and notdelusional have had their memberships removed.  Thank you to everyone who reported it, and my apologies for not being online 24/7. 

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 9:11am

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

LucyLoretta and notdelusional have had their memberships removed.  Thank you to everyone who reported it, and my apologies for not being online 24/7. 

She'll be back tomorrow under another name.  Wait for it...

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Just to let you know, I am not a religious fanatic.  I am a life long nonvaxer who will be soon 60. I remember seeing contemporaries with leg braces from polio but at the same time I had classmates lose a year of school due to rheumatic fever.  

Have you known any one recently with polio?  Is it because of the near universal use of the vaccine? 

Have you known any one recently with rheumatic fever?  Where is the vaccine for this disease? 

I object to vaccinations on the basis of common sense.  

miriam, what I meant was that when society *thinks* that the people who are not vaccinating are limited to religious sects, they do not think this issue is one that is affecting them.  Of course, it has always been a misconception that the only non-vaxers are religious, but I don't think mainstream society has been well aware of the existence of other people (like you) who have other reasons.  Nowadays, for various reasons, it is *clear* to most everyone that non-vaxers include people who are otherwise *just*like*them*.  Suddenly the issue does seem close to home, even though this has been true all along.  

It is a matter of perception, that is what I meant.  

Beyond this explanation as to why vaxers are so hysterical towards non-vaxers, I just don't feel confident enough in what I know to support a debate, and don't really feel invested enough in one stance or another to really want to.

The original question was-- why this attitude?  This is my theory.  I don't presume to know anything else.