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Why so much mainstream hatred for non-vaxers? - Page 15

post #281 of 312

Pro-vaxers love to use polio as an example, and they have a point.  This is what we selective vaxers look at as a good reason to continue some vaccinations.  I must point out, though, to the other vaxers posting here that not every disease vaccinated for is equivalent to polio.  And at some point the routine vaccinations for smallpox were ended as well.

 

I think debating vaccination campaigns of the past with non-vaxers is as unimportant as asking a pacifist whether he would have fought against Hitler in WWII.  It might make for a fun debate, but I don't see the relevance to the issues *right now*.

 

 

post #282 of 312

I'm not trying to campaign against vaccines in general.  I have never in my life tried to convince anyone else not to vaccinate.

 

I think the main subject of this thread was the hatred and discrimination toward non-vaxers who are defending their right to choose and to not be treated as flawed in thinking--of course--by almost everyone who makes a different choice.  Do we really have to be treated like we are stupid?  Do we really have to be treated like our reasons are pitiful and were already discredited for good and forever while we sit here in our own personal unenlightened false reality?  I'm not trying to convince anyone to do what I do--I don't corner the market on good decisions.  But neither do those who disagree with me.  It is so easy to bully an extreme minority that is unpopular and presented as a potential danger.  So easy to mock.  Please don't place your fears all over me: on my body and my children's bodies and I will try to do you the same courtesy.  I am not trying to tell you what to do.

 

Herd immunity is only part of all the concepts used to support vax.  It's the only one that gives anyone an excuse to control others and therefore I think it's not worth it.  Go ahead and vax if you wish and gain the individual benefits.  That should be enough.  In theory it is a lot.  The benefits in herd immunity aren't huge enough or clear enough to justify that you invade my body against my will and insist I take multiple risks for those benefits.  Let's admit the risks are substantial, please.  Let's admit that your knowledge is also limited.  Mine is limited too.  I do the best I can to discern.  If you aren't focused on herd immunity then you don't have to treat me like an enemy.  The idea of herd immunity is dangerous to me because it gives an excuse to attack me in a way that you would not otherwise do.  

 

Like I said before, disrespect is easy when you don't believe there even is a "real" other side to the issue.  Everyone on the other side on this issue is held in contempt by most, and held as being antisocial and against the greater good.  Because the other side is just wrong, right?  No way around that and everyone with half a lick of sense already knows it.  Nothing to study or question, and everyone knows serious side effects are "rare" because those are the words we always hear and everyone knows the conscientious objectors are ignorant because that's also what we always hear.  Those are some pretty harsh judgments.  I don't really want to read a list of reasons to vax.  I only presented my reasons not to vax in order to show that they make enough sense for an intelligent person like myself to take them seriously.  You don't have to agree, but please do give me a little credit for making a thoughtful decision with care.  I really have.  In terms of this thread's subject, listing reasons to vax here is just listing excuses to look down on me.  If you're not looking down on me, you don't need to present reasons that it is okay to do so.  Disagreeing with me is fine, having your personal list of reasons is fine, so long as you don't try to control me and insult me.

 

Fifty years from now, we may have confirmed serious widespread damage and we may ALL be looking back wishing we'd stopped vaxing sooner and asked tougher questions expecting more solid answers sooner as well.  You don't know if that will happen any more than I do.  But it's pretty darn plausible considering how many other health care strategies have been shelved after long decades of support once their broader effects became known. 

 

I think we should be on the same side anyhow, all of us insisting on more thorough critical analysis, all of us demanding better answers about safety, all of us pushing for a culture of skepticism whatever choice we each find to appear best for our own families at this moment in time based on our limited information.  We should not allow ourselves to be divided and polarized while everyone scrambles to disassociate themselves with the non-vax fringe currently being ridiculed.  The division makes us less powerful in all together standing up to insist on the safety of our children and to protect their long term health.  We really, really need to KNOW whether vaxes are damaging immune systems and quietly causing brain damage to many thousands of autistic children.  Not just token studies to hush the questioners, either.

post #283 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by my mountain View Post

I just had a few comments.  The first is about the comment on health insurance companies making money and follow the money trail.  Do you think they make money off the $50 vaccine or if the child gets the illness, I say illness.  Also, my kids are on a delayed vaccine schedule, one vaccine every 2 months.  Basically those of you not vaccinating are hoping that all the other kids are vaccinated and they are not spreading any diseases or illnesses.  Because honestly don't you think a lot of kids would have polio, or measles, mumps and rubella if we all chose not to vaccinate.  i am doing all of you non-vaxers a solid.



 This is incredibly short-sighted of you. I am a non-vaxer and I am not hoping all other children are vaccinated so that disease will not be spreading. Indeed I think herd immunity is an illusion and no I do not think alot of kids would have polio at all. Would more kids have measles, mumps and rubella? possibly, but I think these things were at one time (for the most part - of course there are exceptions) a benign childhood disease in this country. And no you are not doing me a solid at all - that actually made me laugh out loud. I think if you choose to make the choice to vaccinate your children because you feel it is in their best interest than good for you, but don't deny me the right to make the same choice for my kids based on what I KNOW is in their best interest.

post #284 of 312

Polio was the first thing that came to mind and had a ton of info.  I'm not attacking, and on this site I am the minority.  The issue in the beginning was that there was no media covereage about non-vaxers.  The reason seems obvious to me.  Also, Slate where you got this article was basically a rant from some guy not a legite, factual paper. 

post #285 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by my mountain View Post

Polio was the first thing that came to mind and had a ton of info.  I'm not attacking, and on this site I am the minority.  The issue in the beginning was that there was no media covereage about non-vaxers.  The reason seems obvious to me.  Also, Slate where you got this article was basically a rant from some guy not a legite, factual paper. 


No, the original topic was about the increasing hatred/strong attitudes of some pro-vax against non-vaxers (and sel/del) in media/public life.

 

There was no way even close it was about media coverage for non-vaxers....not by a long shot. Did not see one post on that issue. Besides, non-vaxers are always in the media when anyone is mentioning anything about vaccines, autism, outbreaks, etc. Whether or not that coverage is fair... another topic.

 

post #286 of 312
Thread Starter 

and the slate follow-up article (opinion) stating that non-vaxers are selfish...

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/02/24/the_super_bowl_and_what_vaccinated_children_have_to_fear_from_anti_vaxxers.html

 

 

Quote:

It’s bad enough to make your child the guinea pig for your crackpot theories, but something altogether more sinister to put my child in harm’s way because of it.

 

post #287 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

and the slate follow-up article (opinion) stating that non-vaxers are selfish...

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/02/24/the_super_bowl_and_what_vaccinated_children_have_to_fear_from_anti_vaxxers.html

 

 



Of course we are!  We are refusing to inject a perfectly healthy child with something that has a small, but very real risk of serious side effects  ( a risk that everyone agrees is hard to quantify)  so we must be monsters…..

post #288 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

I'm not trying to campaign against vaccines in general.  I have never in my life tried to convince anyone else not to vaccinate.

 

I think the main subject of this thread was the hatred and discrimination toward non-vaxers who are defending their right to choose and to not be treated as flawed in thinking--of course--by almost everyone who makes a different choice.  Do we really have to be treated like we are stupid?  Do we really have to be treated like our reasons are pitiful and were already discredited for good and forever while we sit here in our own personal unenlightened false reality?  I'm not trying to convince anyone to do what I do--I don't corner the market on good decisions.  But neither do those who disagree with me.  It is so easy to bully an extreme minority that is unpopular and presented as a potential danger.  So easy to mock.  Please don't place your fears all over me: on my body and my children's bodies and I will try to do you the same courtesy.  I am not trying to tell you what to do.

 

Herd immunity is only part of all the concepts used to support vax.  It's the only one that gives anyone an excuse to control others and therefore I think it's not worth it.  Go ahead and vax if you wish and gain the individual benefits.  That should be enough.  In theory it is a lot.  The benefits in herd immunity aren't huge enough or clear enough to justify that you invade my body against my will and insist I take multiple risks for those benefits.  Let's admit the risks are substantial, please.  Let's admit that your knowledge is also limited.  Mine is limited too.  I do the best I can to discern.  If you aren't focused on herd immunity then you don't have to treat me like an enemy.  The idea of herd immunity is dangerous to me because it gives an excuse to attack me in a way that you would not otherwise do.  

 

Like I said before, disrespect is easy when you don't believe there even is a "real" other side to the issue.  Everyone on the other side on this issue is held in contempt by most, and held as being antisocial and against the greater good.  Because the other side is just wrong, right?  No way around that and everyone with half a lick of sense already knows it.  Nothing to study or question, and everyone knows serious side effects are "rare" because those are the words we always hear and everyone knows the conscientious objectors are ignorant because that's also what we always hear.  Those are some pretty harsh judgments.  I don't really want to read a list of reasons to vax.  I only presented my reasons not to vax in order to show that they make enough sense for an intelligent person like myself to take them seriously.  You don't have to agree, but please do give me a little credit for making a thoughtful decision with care.  I really have.  In terms of this thread's subject, listing reasons to vax here is just listing excuses to look down on me.  If you're not looking down on me, you don't need to present reasons that it is okay to do so.  Disagreeing with me is fine, having your personal list of reasons is fine, so long as you don't try to control me and insult me.

 

Fifty years from now, we may have confirmed serious widespread damage and we may ALL be looking back wishing we'd stopped vaxing sooner and asked tougher questions expecting more solid answers sooner as well.  You don't know if that will happen any more than I do.  But it's pretty darn plausible considering how many other health care strategies have been shelved after long decades of support once their broader effects became known. 

 

I think we should be on the same side anyhow, all of us insisting on more thorough critical analysis, all of us demanding better answers about safety, all of us pushing for a culture of skepticism whatever choice we each find to appear best for our own families at this moment in time based on our limited information.  We should not allow ourselves to be divided and polarized while everyone scrambles to disassociate themselves with the non-vax fringe currently being ridiculed.  The division makes us less powerful in all together standing up to insist on the safety of our children and to protect their long term health.  We really, really need to KNOW whether vaxes are damaging immune systems and quietly causing brain damage to many thousands of autistic children.  Not just token studies to hush the questioners, either.


Just wanted to really applaud this (the bolded bits).  I'm a vaxer, but i agree so so much with this.  Herd immunity is a benefit TO ME, but the idea that anyone should be forced to do anything makes me squirm WAY more than the idea that someone might not agree with me.  The right to disagree, to have sovereignty over our own bodies, is so SO precious, and it is a privilege to have it in this world.  It's something really worth fighting for.  When we say "enforce vax" we open the door to "enforce csections" "enforce formula" "enforce circumcision" "enforce breast augmentation" - i know they already force csections in some instances.  It's DISGUSTING.  Every person should have rights over their body, every parent the rights to protect and do what they see as best for their child.  And yes, absolutely, divided we fall.  The vax/don't vax debate isn't a school-debate-team-debate, as many seem to treat it.  If they are safe you can't ARGUE them unsafe, if they are unsafe you can't ARGUE them safe!  We need to KNOW.  Standing around judging one another and making cruel assertions will not eradicate a single disease or prevent a single fatal vaccine reaction.  Only high quality, large scale, unbiased research can answer the question.  It really wears me out to see either "side" throwing rocks at the other (i appreciate that there are more vaxers because it happens to be mainstream, and thus more rocks coming from that direction, but you do see it going both ways).  We all love our kids, we are ALL trying to do the "right" thing.

 

Herd immunity *might* benefit some (i think it does, i understand why others disagree).  Mob mentality does not benefit ANYONE.

 

post #289 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post


Just wanted to really applaud this (the bolded bits).  I'm a vaxer, but i agree so so much with this.  Herd immunity is a benefit TO ME, but the idea that anyone should be forced to do anything makes me squirm WAY more than the idea that someone might not agree with me.  The right to disagree, to have sovereignty over our own bodies, is so SO precious, and it is a privilege to have it in this world.  It's something really worth fighting for.  When we say "enforce vax" we open the door to "enforce csections" "enforce formula" "enforce circumcision" "enforce breast augmentation" - i know they already force csections in some instances.  It's DISGUSTING.  Every person should have rights over their body, every parent the rights to protect and do what they see as best for their child.  And yes, absolutely, divided we fall.  The vax/don't vax debate isn't a school-debate-team-debate, as many seem to treat it.  If they are safe you can't ARGUE them unsafe, if they are unsafe you can't ARGUE them safe!  We need to KNOW.  Standing around judging one another and making cruel assertions will not eradicate a single disease or prevent a single fatal vaccine reaction.  Only high quality, large scale, unbiased research can answer the question.  It really wears me out to see either "side" throwing rocks at the other (i appreciate that there are more vaxers because it happens to be mainstream, and thus more rocks coming from that direction, but you do see it going both ways).  We all love our kids, we are ALL trying to do the "right" thing.

 

Herd immunity *might* benefit some (i think it does, i understand why others disagree).  Mob mentality does not benefit ANYONE.

 



clap.gif

post #290 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post


Just wanted to really applaud this (the bolded bits).  I'm a vaxer, but i agree so so much with this.  Herd immunity is a benefit TO ME, but the idea that anyone should be forced to do anything makes me squirm WAY more than the idea that someone might not agree with me.  The right to disagree, to have sovereignty over our own bodies, is so SO precious, and it is a privilege to have it in this world.  It's something really worth fighting for.  When we say "enforce vax" we open the door to "enforce csections" "enforce formula" "enforce circumcision" "enforce breast augmentation" - i know they already force csections in some instances.  It's DISGUSTING.  Every person should have rights over their body, every parent the rights to protect and do what they see as best for their child.  And yes, absolutely, divided we fall.  The vax/don't vax debate isn't a school-debate-team-debate, as many seem to treat it.  If they are safe you can't ARGUE them unsafe, if they are unsafe you can't ARGUE them safe!  We need to KNOW.  Standing around judging one another and making cruel assertions will not eradicate a single disease or prevent a single fatal vaccine reaction.  Only high quality, large scale, unbiased research can answer the question.  It really wears me out to see either "side" throwing rocks at the other (i appreciate that there are more vaxers because it happens to be mainstream, and thus more rocks coming from that direction, but you do see it going both ways).  We all love our kids, we are ALL trying to do the "right" thing.

 

Herd immunity *might* benefit some (i think it does, i understand why others disagree).  Mob mentality does not benefit ANYONE.

 


yeahthat.gif x 100

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Issues of bodily autonomy concern everyone. Most of the things non-vaxers are concerned about, I think concern those who do fully or partially vax - safety, ingredients, long term health consequences, reactions, etc. 

"Scathing" attacks of either side on the other doesn't really do much for anyone, you won't win converts that way, just have a few heads (who were already there nodding) in your corner.

 

post #291 of 312

So ultimately I think the reason there is hatred--as asked in the thread's title--is because it is a nonphysical way to attempt to control others' behavior.  Several entities are actively encouraging the hatred in how news is spun, what news is omitted, and in other ways.  Disapproval and ridicule are reducing sympathy for non-vaxers and putting social pressure on non-vaxers to vax without resorting to physical force. 

 

A large number of people will actually go along with the crowd simply because they are fearful that otherwise they would be considered fools or perceived as irresponsible and inconsiderate.

 

Many of us, ultimately, are not sure what to do with the conflicting information and can't figure out who to believe.  If you are not sure one way or the other, it is easy to go along with the easier or less embarrassing option, especially if you also think it is more altruistic as well to act for the greater good.  Social pressure is extremely powerful.  Another kind of social pressure is toward the medical profession: doctors are forced into very difficult positions in which to respect our rights they face significant professional consequences.  Nurses don't have much freedom to respond to non-vaxers with respect either.  The institutionalized pressure in the medical professions is a lot more effective though.

 

Before an entity could dare to use force to make parents vax, they have to build up popular support for the idea.  So stirring up anger and generally ridiculing non-vaxers and making them appear dangerous sets up the government for using force in creating laws that make it much harder to refuse vaxes.  So long as most people feel such legal actions are protecting everyone from something very dangerous then people will in fact support the action.  There are plenty of people who consider unvaxed children victims of their parents and would like to remove the parents' right to decide this.

 

The hostile climate will benefit those who want to take away our right to make this decision about our children's bodies.

 

While doing so, the big serious questions about the permanent side effects of vaccinations are not getting answered.  We are pretty much being told they are stupid and irrelevant questions more often than not.  The pharmaceutical companies are being held to low standards and released from accountability.  I like that famous phrase "First, do no harm"   ...it's all I'm asking for.   

post #292 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by my mountain View Post

Basically those of you not vaccinating are hoping that all the other kids are vaccinated and they are not spreading any diseases or illnesses.  Because honestly don't you think a lot of kids would have polio, or measles, mumps and rubella if we all chose not to vaccinate.  i am doing all of you non-vaxers a solid.



Incorrect. I'm trying desperately to decide whether or not to vax my eight year old dd1 for chickenpox. If it weren't for the vax, she'd have almost certainly had it by now, and I wouldn't be worrying about it. But, I'm concerned about her exposure as a teen or adult, and I'm also concerned about the vax. People vaxing for varicella aren't doing me "a solid". That vax, and the widespread use of it, have just created an issue for me.

 

And, no - I'm not worried about my kids getting mumps or measles. Neither is fun, but they're usually benign - and I'm in the same boat about mumps that I am about chickenpox, at least where my son is concerned. I don't want him getting mumps when he's older. If he'd just caught "wild" mumps through natural exposure, I wouldn't be worrying about it now.

 

I'm not technically a non-vaxer, although dd2 hasn't had any. But, I don't have an issue with anybody's choices in this regard, be they full vax, selective/delayed vax, or no vax. Everyone's trying to do what's best for their own families. I, personally, just prefer the "wild" form of most diseases, not the vax form. (I'm not talking out my butt, either. I've had measles, mumps and chickenpox, and I believe I had rubella, and ds1 also had chickenpox. This isn't just theoretical stuff for me..) I don't agree with every argument on the non-vax side. But, I also don't think we (as a society, including the doctors and researchers) know enough about the immune system or the potential long-term effects of vaccines to be as cavalier as we are about them.

post #293 of 312

Out of my four children, we have been through five cases of chicken pox and one of shingles.   I feel lucky.  I was puzzled when the CP vaccine was introduced and appalled when it was required.  The truly frivolous vaccines such as chicken pox, and then a few that were on the market and right back off due to injuries, did a lot to discredit every industry and institution involved with vaccination in my mind.  Back when chicken pox vax was new, I was dealing with some medical issues with dd1.  Most of the doctors then thought it was unimportant and none of them wanted me to consider it. 

 

I remember some of the ads that were meant to make CP look like a more serious disease than it is as well, in parenting magazines.  I distinctly recall one that was a big picture of a CUTE teddy bear with a big tear falling down its face and below that a really tiny number of deaths connected with chicken pox cited in the text.  Clearly it was the image and the mention of death was supposed to make an impression because the number was miniscule.  Anyhow, it was so hard to convince people that CP was serious that they had to change the subject to sick days and lost work productivity to get people to stop laughing and succumb to the marketing.  The CP vax was okay IMO when it was optional.  Some parents want things like that, and the market is always providing them the products they want.  Then it was mandated and then it wasn't okay with me anymore.

 

 

post #294 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

Before an entity could dare to use force to make parents vax, they have to build up popular support for the idea.  So stirring up anger and generally ridiculing non-vaxers and making them appear dangerous sets up the government for using force in creating laws that make it much harder to refuse vaxes.  So long as most people feel such legal actions are protecting everyone from something very dangerous then people will in fact support the action.  There are plenty of people who consider unvaxed children victims of their parents and would like to remove the parents' right to decide this.

 

The hostile climate will benefit those who want to take away our right to make this decision about our children's bodies.



This is exactly what I'm afraid of.  The widespread intolerance of non/del/sel vaxers has me very worried that the next phase we'll see will be legislative...

post #295 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post

Just wanted to really applaud this (the bolded bits).  I'm a vaxer, but i agree so so much with this.  Herd immunity is a benefit TO ME, but the idea that anyone should be forced to do anything makes me squirm WAY more than the idea that someone might not agree with me.  The right to disagree, to have sovereignty over our own bodies, is so SO precious, and it is a privilege to have it in this world.  It's something really worth fighting for.  When we say "enforce vax" we open the door to "enforce csections" "enforce formula" "enforce circumcision" "enforce breast augmentation" - i know they already force csections in some instances.  It's DISGUSTING.  Every person should have rights over their body, every parent the rights to protect and do what they see as best for their child.  And yes, absolutely, divided we fall.  The vax/don't vax debate isn't a school-debate-team-debate, as many seem to treat it.  If they are safe you can't ARGUE them unsafe, if they are unsafe you can't ARGUE them safe!  We need to KNOW.  Standing around judging one another and making cruel assertions will not eradicate a single disease or prevent a single fatal vaccine reaction.  Only high quality, large scale, unbiased research can answer the question.  It really wears me out to see either "side" throwing rocks at the other (i appreciate that there are more vaxers because it happens to be mainstream, and thus more rocks coming from that direction, but you do see it going both ways).  We all love our kids, we are ALL trying to do the "right" thing.

 

Herd immunity *might* benefit some (i think it does, i understand why others disagree).  Mob mentality does not benefit ANYONE.

 


We are currently non-vaxing, likely to do some ultimately, and I agree with GoBecGo.

 

post #296 of 312
Thread Starter 

I think you ladies are making more important points on this last page than most of the rest of the thread combined... 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlest birds
The hostile climate will benefit those who want to take away our right to make this decision about our children's bodies.
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post

This is exactly what I'm afraid of.  The widespread intolerance of non/del/sel vaxers has me very worried that the next phase we'll see will be legislative...


I am worried about this too... that is one of the main questions I had when I started this thread. Although someone correctly pointed out that a lot of states (8? i think) are working to bring back philosophical exemptions... whether or not that happens is yet to be seen... I know other states are trying to eliminate. 

 

With the popularity of sel/del/non vaxing increasing I really think some big issues will be tested through legislation/protest...soon? I don't think the way the current system is going - increasing schedule, increasing requirements, the way exemptions are structured, etc. is going to be able to hold up....

 

A lot of the rhetoric in these articles is just ridiculous.... non-vaxers are all ignorant, selfish, conspiracy theorists, etc. All In effort to polarize non/del/sel vax to the point of being able to shame people into not questioning - as littlest birds was saying above. I also don't know how well that strategy is going to work... 

 

I find it difficult to discuss this with pro-vaxers who absolutely believe in herd immunity. In my opinion, there is a huge difference between measles and chicken pox (especially since few people of younger generations have natural immunity!). There are many issues going on within one argument.


Edited by slmommy - 2/26/12 at 5:21am
post #297 of 312

I am  worried that my children will not have the choices we have now when it comes to vaccination.   Who knows what is going to go on in  the next 20years with this issue?  

post #298 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

 

Before an entity could dare to use force to make parents vax, they have to build up popular support for the idea.  So stirring up anger and generally ridiculing non-vaxers and making them appear dangerous sets up the government for using force in creating laws that make it much harder to refuse vaxes.  So long as most people feel such legal actions are protecting everyone from something very dangerous then people will in fact support the action.  There are plenty of people who consider unvaxed children victims of their parents and would like to remove the parents' right to decide this.

 

The hostile climate will benefit those who want to take away our right to make this decision about our children's bodies.


I am a little more optimistic about this, but of course it can go either way.  When an issue is about to become mainstream, there is a lot of backlash.  In the case of breastfeeding I saw evidence of a lot of crude humor.  Signs, to me, that the ideas are becoming mainstream.  Homeschooling, breastfeeding, marijuana use, etc.  When that happens, yes, the states can backlash and clamp down, or they will adjust their policies accordingly.  And for vaccines, hopefully that means that some better research will go into the safety of this stuff.  The thimerisol (sp?) issue created a mini-backlash, and our state responded by mandating lower levels in vaccines (not all that impressive, I admit, but a beginning nonetheless).  

 

Now, vaccination addresses diseases, some potentially life threatening ones, so my comparison to other issues isn't really parallel.  It's possible though that this issue will follow the same general pattern but with more extremes before general acceptance.  And that is what I am hoping.  I have the luxury, however, in living in a state that seems less reactionary than most.  Then again, I might be wrong about this, but rest assured that I, at least, will be supporting parents' right to make their own decisions.

post #299 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post


I am a little more optimistic about this, but of course it can go either way.  When an issue is about to become mainstream, there is a lot of backlash.  In the case of breastfeeding I saw evidence of a lot of crude humor.  Signs, to me, that the ideas are becoming mainstream.  Homeschooling, breastfeeding, marijuana use, etc.  When that happens, yes, the states can backlash and clamp down, or they will adjust their policies accordingly.  And for vaccines, hopefully that means that some better research will go into the safety of this stuff.  The thimerisol (sp?) issue created a mini-backlash, and our state responded by mandating lower levels in vaccines (not all that impressive, I admit, but a beginning nonetheless).  

 

 



Good point about tension building.  The reason so many hackles are raised about it is that vax-questioning has become pretty widespread, and pretty powerful.  The power of that isn't going to fade away as institutions and businesses strategize to keep the status quo.  There is reason to be optimistic, I agree.

post #300 of 312
Thread Starter 

Ok... I have a question and I guess I'll ask it here, as in the beginning of the thread there were a lot of references to how mdc vax boards used to be... I got curious and started digging... wow. very different than now.... what happened, for those of you who have been around longer? I was reading mostly threads in the archives 2006-9ish...

 

Where did those people go to? A few seemed very well researched, with backgrounds in science. I can see where some threads and comments went over the top too, as the pro-vax camp here was referring to. 

 

 

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Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › I'm Not Vaccinating › Why so much mainstream hatred for non-vaxers?