Why so much mainstream hatred for non-vaxers? - Page 3

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

I think it would be harder to find examples in mainstream media.

I agree.  Anti-vax is not a mainstream view and thus is not going to get the same coverage in the mainstream media.    

Originally Posted by slmommy 

And I don't think that the non-vaxer judgements on pro-vaxers can 100% explain the strength and spitefullness of the mainstream attack on non/del/sel vaxers. 

I don't either although I do think it plays a part.  I think some PPs have brought up some other reasons that might explain the backlash.  

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Whereas, probably a lot of the judgement coming out of non-vaxers is a reaction to the counter judgement and condescension by the majority.

Really, it goes both ways and I doubt plays any more or less a roll for either side.  I saw lots of judgment from anti-vaxers (and I don't just mean non) long before there was much mainstream backlash against non-vaxers.  

[AbbyGrant]

So on this thread that's supposed to be about how judgmental and nasty the pro-vax side is, we've got people comparing those that vax to people who fell for the Nazis and painting those that vax as hysterical. Hmmm....

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

So on this thread that's supposed to be about how judgmental and nasty the pro-vax side is, we've got people comparing those that vax to people who fell for the Nazis and painting those that vax as hysterical. Hmmm....

Not people.  One person mentioned Nazi's.  One.  Five people have commented on her comment.  

So far a bunch of us have been accused of this Nazi thing  (up thread) , and now you say people…...

I don't like being judged because of something someone other than me said.  Yes, it is implied by the use of collective wording.  

Some people, I imagine, do it deliberately as an attempt at halo effect  (let's make one of them look bad, they will all look bad, and more people will consider their position crazy!)  some just like drama, and some legitimately are ticked off over the Nazi comment - perhaps in addition to halo effect or drama liking.  

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Not people.  One person mentioned Nazi's.  One.  Five people have commented on her comment.  

So far a bunch of us have been accused of this Nazi thing  (up thread) , and now you say people…...

I don't like being judged because of something someone other than me said.  Yes, it is implied by the use of collective wording.  

The comment was liked and yeah thated.  I'm not judging you.  I'm pointing out the irony. 

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Some people, I imagine, do it deliberately as an attempt at halo effect  (let's make one of them look bad, they will all look bad, and more people will consider their position crazy!)  some just like drama, and some legitimately are ticked off over the Nazi comment - perhaps in addition to halo effect or drama liking.  

Count me in the latter group minus the halo effect and drama liking.  I find it repulsive.  

[Imakcerka]

How did I miss this gem? 

Up until recently I've seen very little negative media attention over non-vaxxers... unless you count some fun people like AJ... And his crazy yelling.  DH was listening to something by him about vaccines and sheeple not too long ago and I had to tell him to turn that Shyte off.  Other than that I've read or heard very little.

[slmommy]

... I didn't really mean for this thread to be about the mean/offensive things each side says to each other.

I wanted to talk more about the history and reasons behind the very strong hatred of non-vaxers, and also where is it going? 

I also wonder if it is part of a larger picture at the moment - and I'm really hesitant to bring it up because I do not want to argue about things off topic, but there is a lot of stuff going on politically in regards to women's healthcare right now, and both sides of the political spectrum are being offended - more state legislation requiring women to undergo unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds before abortions, and then offensive to the other side - the issue with insurance and employers obligated to pay for contraception. It seems like there is an increase in politics interfering with medical issues.

In relation to vaccines, I think there has been an increase in interest in states trying to get rid of certain exemptions, the legislation in cali for no parental consent needed, also more workplaces being allowed to force mandatory flu shots, etc??? 

[rachelsmama]

I think you're right that the demonising of non-vaxers, and vaccine-cautious people by the rabidly pro-vax community (and I'm not trying to imply that everybody who vaccinates is part of that group) is part of a larger thing. 

Since it is tempting to draw parallels between present events and historical ones, I would like to suggest McCarthyism for comparison. 

[Imakcerka]

It is part of a larger picture.  There will be those that follow what is suggested by the government and those that don't.  Outside of the mainstream, some of those that don't follow the Gov't guidelines feel that those who do are Sheeple and part of a system that plans to take over everyone lives.  I'm not even kidding in the slightest.  Two nights ago my friend committed suicide and we were able to watch all his youtube videos last night.  From those videos he mentioned numerous conspiracy sites and preached about the evils of the gov't.  His rants included vaccines.  While that was a small part of it, I was able to find all the information he gave and I spent a lot of time going through all the sites and his user name.  Some of these people are very convincing.  And honestly this group of people are growing in numbers.  You have people like Alex Jones screaming from his desk about any one who follows the mainstream being vile and pretty much being a zombie.  It's getting interesting in my opinion and honestly after last night watching all his videos and really feeling engaged by the things he was saying... I have to say that one more conspiracy has killed a friend of mine.  And I'm really sick of this crap.

While I don't think the anti-vaccine world is all conspiracy, I do think it's heading that way.  As someone who is searching for information, I'm no longer looking here.

Originally Posted by slmommy 

... I didn't really mean for this thread to be about the mean/offensive things each side says to each other.

I wanted to talk more about the history and reasons behind the very strong hatred of non-vaxers, and also where is it going? 

I also wonder if it is part of a larger picture at the moment - and I'm really hesitant to bring it up because I do not want to argue about things off topic, but there is a lot of stuff going on politically in regards to women's healthcare right now, and both sides of the political spectrum are being offended - more state legislation requiring women to undergo unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds before abortions, and then offensive to the other side - the issue with insurance and employers obligated to pay for contraception. It seems like there is an increase in politics interfering with medical issues.

In relation to vaccines, I think there has been an increase in interest in states trying to get rid of certain exemptions, the legislation in cali for no parental consent needed, also more workplaces being allowed to force mandatory flu shots, etc??? 

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

... I didn't really mean for this thread to be about the mean/offensive things each side says to each other.

I wanted to talk more about the history and reasons behind the very strong hatred of non-vaxers, and also where is it going?

I think those mean/offensive things are part of the history and reason for some of the resentment and contempt.  

But I think the Slate article might offer some more clues if you can get past the tone.  I think that some people who vaccinate their children feel like those that don't are getting a free ride because they're benefiting from the majority being vaccinated without taking any of the risk.  They took one for the team so to speak and are irritated that others won't.  

 

[Imakcerka]

Why McCarthyism? 
 

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

I think you're right that the demonising of non-vaxers, and vaccine-cautious people by the rabidly pro-vax community (and I'm not trying to imply that everybody who vaccinates is part of that group) is part of a larger thing. 

Since it is tempting to draw parallels between present events and historical ones, I would like to suggest McCarthyism for comparison. 

[Marnica]

nevermind!

 

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

Careful with all that nazi talk.  It could be turned around the other way...you know with all the elitism and purity.  I've seen many a anti-vaxer refer to those that are vaccinated as tainted and damaged.  Personally, I think all the bickering is stupid on both sides.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

... I didn't really mean for this thread to be about the mean/offensive things each side says to each other.

I wanted to talk more about the history and reasons behind the very strong hatred of non-vaxers, and also where is it going? 

Maybe people just like to be mean to each other ( are we all bullies at heart) and minorities are good fodder?  We have seen that over and over again throughout history.

Non vaccinators are a great target, because (drum roll please!)  we are doing something they see as against children!  

One of the smartest thing the pro-vax camp did, in my opinion, is have the fact that vaccines are not 100% effective spoken about in mainstream media.  That means an unavxxed child could (theoretically) give your child a disease.

People don't really care or spew venom about parenting choice that don't affect them.  Ex:  Parental smoking.  No one is happy about it, it has way worse implications than vaxxing or not vaxxing,  but as long  as you do not do it in front of another persons child, everyone holds their tongue.

Not vaccinating carries a tiny, tiny, tiny risk that your child will come down with a VPD and give it to a vaccinated child  thus it is allowable to dog on them for their decision.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 
... I have to say that one more conspiracy has killed a friend of mine.  And I'm really sick of this crap.

While I don't think the anti-vaccine world is all conspiracy, I do think it's heading that way.  As someone who is searching for information, I'm no longer looking here.

Imakcerka…..I am sorry for the loss of your friend.  

I hope you find the info you are looking for elsewhere - I am sure you know, however, that not all non-vaxxers are conspiracy theorists.  I am not.

[rachelsmama]

Mostly because it seems like a slightly "safer" subject for comparison than the discussions upthread, without being so obscure that nobody has heard of it. 

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

But I think the Slate article might offer some more clues if you can get past the tone.  I think that some people who vaccinate their children feel like those that don't are getting a free ride because they're benefiting from the majority being vaccinated without taking any of the risk.  They took one for the team so to speak and are irritated that others won't.

bolding mine.  I think this plays a huge part in it.  The irony is:  this is "one for the team" they chose for themselves.  I did not ask them to, indeed I spend some time on the vax forums arguing against vaccination…..This is something they chose for themselves and I won't have it put on me.  

[Imakcerka]

No I know that Kathy, it just seems that they get into this anti gov't movement and seek out anything negative they can find.  They fully believe it all too.  No gray.  They're right back where they started, just on the other end.  I don't blame conspiracies for it, I blame false information for it.
 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Imakcerka…..I am sorry for the loss of your friend.

I hope you find the info you are looking for elsewhere - I am sure you know, however, that not all non-vaxxers are conspiracy theorists.  I am not.

[Imakcerka]

Well, people who are not well read haven't heard of it... I kind of doubt anyone here hasn't heard of it.  Interesting comparison but still kind of extreme.
 

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

Mostly because it seems like a slightly "safer" subject for comparison than the discussions upthread, without being so obscure that nobody has heard of it. 

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

The irony is:  this is "one for the team" they chose for themselves.  I did not ask them to, indeed I spend some time on the vax forums arguing against vaccination…..This is something they chose for themselves and I won't have it put on me.  

I agree that it was their choice, and it should not be put on anyone else.  But do you disagree that those that don't vaccinate benefit from that choice?  

[rachelsmama]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Well, people who are not well read haven't heard of it... I kind of doubt anyone here hasn't heard of it.  Interesting comparison but still kind of extreme.
 

True, it's kind of extreme, but I get the impression that we're heading into some extreme times.  I don't think it's a perfect comparison, just that there's a chance that the parallels can be discussed calmly.