List of Guidelines for stbx

[Holland73]

Ok, Ladies, I need some help with this one.

I need to come up with a list of guidelines for stbx, in regards to ds. I trust stbx with ds completely, he is a great daddy, for the most part, and I do not want to hinder their relationship.

This is coming up because yesterday stbx wanted to take ds, who is 9 months old, for the day on Saturday. I have no problem with this, but I asked stbx if his new girlfriend, who he has only been seeing for 3.5 weeks, would be there. He initially said no, but then admitted to lying and said YES she would be. His new girlfriend is also a single mom to a 20 month old.

Of course...I said NO WAY and that resulted in a bitter email debate until he finally agreed that it was too soon. But, I know this will come up again and I don't want to be sitting around waiting for it.

Therefore, I wanted to come up with a list of "guidelines."

I don't think that ds should be around any of our "potential" mates until the relationship is long-term. 3.5 weeks is NOT long term. So, what do you think is long-term? I was thinking 6 months? And this is not just for stbx, but also for me! Granted, for me, I think it would be even longer!

Another discussion between stbx and I was about ds's weekends over. First of all, he does not even have his own place and, second of all, ds is only 9 months!!!!

I don't think, and I explained this to stbx, that ds will be ready for sleepovers until he is between 2-5 years old. It will truly depend on the type of relationship he has with his father and the type of child (highly-sensitive vs independent) he will become. This whole thought just makes my stomach churn!

Can any of you please provide me with your thoughts, advice, opinions, examples??? I really need some help with this one!

Thanks!

[mocha09]

Hey Holland, I'm wondering if you could clarify a little. Do you just want to establish guidelines regarding the gf?

[mocha09]

Oops. I didn't read your entire post for some reason. You're also looking for guidelines on when to start sleeping over? I think you have some good ideas in regards to waiting to see what the situation is when the time comes. I know I won't want dd to do any overnights until she weans.

[Holland73]

Does 6 months, in regards to defining a long-term relationship, seem reasonable????

Unfortunately, we do not breastfeed (long story), so weaning is not an issue.

This is not easy.

I also didn't know if there were any other "guidelines" I should be thinking about. All of this came out of the blue from stbx and I don't want to be sitting around waiting for more of this stuff to come out and "get me"!

[SingleDad]

I would definately establish a guideline that you meet this person prior to leaving your child with him and her. I think that 6 months is more than reasonable to assess whether or not the relationship will last or not. I usually wait for at least 3 months as a single person before I introduce someone to my sons, but your situation is different than mine. I would think that it would be good for you to see this woman around her own child to see how she treats him/her and then make a decision as to whether you want your child around her. If you're wondering which guidelines you would want, I'd sit and write out what you would want to know about the situation, and go from there. Also another important thing (that I've made the mistake of) is find out if there will be anyone else around your child because of this person. ie....her mother/father/uncle etc. and if they will be going out, who will your child stay with if they aren't taken along? Just some suggestions, I hope it helps.

[Patchy Dragon]

3-6 months should give a fair assement of how the relationship may or may not work out. I agree you should meet the partner before your son does or at the very least meet her together. Possibly make a playdate with her, STBX, her son, you and your DS. That way you get a feel for her. I happen to really like my DS's finance and in a lot of ways more responsible in certain aspects of his care.

Caleb started his overnights with his dad when he was a year, as I was no longer breastfeeding (I have a long story too). I was at ease knowing his mom, whom I trust and respect was at all the overnights until he was almost 2 since he spent the over nights at his parent's house.

[Dragonfly]

I have to disagree - but only because of my own, personal experience with stbx, so feel free to disregard my advice.

I, personally, would not try to make or enforce guidelines about a girlfriend. I did try this, at first (I was very direct about not feeling that it was appropriate for ds to be around potential mates until we were sure they were going to be sticking around for a long time). Stbx agreed at first, but then starting bending the guidelines. Why? Because he felt it was a control issue - and it was, really, just for a different reason than he thought. I was trying to control what my ds experienced because I thought it was best for him, and he thought I was trying to control his behavior (which IS, after all, what the outcome would be).

Long story short, I had to let that one go. It's too much policing of a person with whom you are no longer intimate. And it's not as though you can guarantee that he's not going to tell you one thing and do another. It could potentially put your ds in a difficult position when he's older - he might feel that daddy wants him to lie to mama about who they hang out with, and he might feel that he's letting both of you down.

My advice is to make *your* life with your son stabile and be open about what you would hope for with your stbx, but to leave it at that - a suggestion. Particularly where this is concerned because what it does is tell him that you don't trust his judgment about how to best parent your son.

Of course, you CAN lay down the law (if you find that it needs to be laid down, that is) about what sort of discipline is acceptable or not from another person and whether or not it's okay to leave them alone together (which, IMO, is pretty much always a resolute no until the child is much older) - but that's a safety issue.

Just my 2 cents, anyway.

The overnight thing - I think you're definitely well within your rights to assert yourself there. Young ones aren't ready to handle that kind of situation - they don't have the sense of permanence that you or I do. I know at 3.5, ds still isn't ready to stay without me. He tries sometimes, because he really wants to hang out with daddy, but they always end up back here later on at night.

Perhaps you could make a deal with stbx that you'll wait until 2 years and then you'll try if your son indicates that he's ready and stbx promises that he'll bring your son back if he becomes upset.

[djs_girl517]

If you do set up these guidelines with your STBX, make sure to clarify that you don't care what he does with your life, you are just trying to safeguard your son.

I am lucky enough to be a step-mom to three wonderful children. I started dating their dad before his divorce was final, and his ex was/is very bitter about that. She tried to use visitation to control his life. I won't go into the details, but if she had had an actual concern about the children's welfare, we would have been happy to get together with her to work out something everyone could be comfortable with.

Also, I don't think it is unreasonable to want to meet this woman who will potentially be providing a decent amount of your son's care. I know it wouldn't have bothered me is DH's ex had wanted to ensure that I wasn't a danger to her children. And the fact that STBX's new GF is a mother, I imagine she would understand your need to ensure your son's safety.

Just make sure that you really stress to him that you are not trying to control/meddle with his life, you just want to make sure you son is okay.

[roxy]

i can make this really simple and just say i agree with everything dragonfly said. but, that wouldn't be me i'm in a similar situation now. ds will be 2 next month, and doesn't always sleep all night. he's not weaned, and every week i have the same arguement about overnights. but i let the gf thing go. i don't want to make waves over that issue. i'm choosing my battles wisely. overnights are a battle worth fighting. imo, anyway. and in my case, his gf is someone i've known since i was 13 (pretty small town) and is a good person. i don't worry about ds being at her house, but i draw the line at her babysitting.

[fishy]

guidelines are really hard to enforce bc you never know what the other person is really doing. plus, if you get to set up guidelines, then he does too and do you want him policing you? of course any guidelines you set up would be in the best intrest of your son, however, i could see how the stbx could see it otherwise.

i know for ME, i would not introduce a boyfriend to my ds for at least 6 mnths, and even then not as a boyfriend, but just as a friend. there will be plenty of 'after bedtime' time and i do not want to be parading men past my son. if you think about it, say you wait 6 mnths, introduce dc to bf, then you break up 6 mnths later. then, meet a new bf, introduce dc in 6 mnths, then break up. this could go on and and on (at no fault to anyone) and potentially have a new guy every year (or less) and that is no picnic for a little person.

overnights is another issue. it really depends on what the courts say. in my state, after the child is 2 years old, overnights are granted. sometimes earlier (btwn 1 and 2, but definately after 2) as long as their is no behavior exhibited by the non-custodail parent to cause concern. my son is almost 3.5 and he is at his fathers every other weekend, and he still nurses when he is at home. i wanted to prevent overnights this early, but i really had no basis for it and stbx was granted the time with ds. (but in your cse, you should be able to not have overnight visits until at LEAST a year)

i think that the trouble with both your main issues is, even if you both signed and agreement to this effect, and had it signed by a judge, he could always go back to court to change it.

i know i have control issues. i mean, i want to control what happens to my son. it has been a hard lesson for me to learn that i cannot. i have nothing to do with what stbx does with our son, as long as it not harming his person. he can introduce him to girls, he can play violent video games, he can keep him up all night and feed him nothing but junk food and candy. it is not up to me how he parents our son. it is really hard to realize this, but as the other posters said, there are things you just have to let go. even if you dont want to.

im sorry that i probably didnt say anything helpful. good luck to you on your journey.

[Myethpio]

It's so funny... I posted my situation right before reading this... had I known!

I ended up clarifying with my ex what I thought guidelines in regards to him and his g.f. should be. For the first few months... it was to be only him and him alone. We had some problems with this, and he went back on what he said once or twice but after talking a lot about it, it ended up working out. Then gradually when they were together longer ( I think it was 6 mos?), she started to go out with them once a week, but the other visitations were to be him alone, and he agreed completely on this point. After a while my youngest started to go out with him as well (she was not weaned at the time, but now is so it's easier for him to take her). The problem is that now, all this time they have lived together, and he wants to have them be able to go over to their place and she be around. But all the while no showing of affection or "partnership" of any kind... I just don't see how that is possible.
I should mention I am now seeing soeone who has been a friend for some time, and my kids know but he is just a friend is their eyes... and it is very tough, but I think it's what is best for them. I don't know how much longer this would be the case, I'm wondering that myself, but I figure I have all the time in the world so I'm in no hurry on this.

I have my own opinion of the whole "knowing they live together" thing, he should have thought of that before they moved in together, they should be able to arrange a way to handle this and doing what is best for the kids... and of course, they, in my opinion, have a very unhealthy co-dependent relationship and he still has major issues of control and manipulation, so that is a personal worry on my part... I am trying to not let my feeling towards this woman and my ex in general get in the way of what is best for my kids. So I have been very open in this regards.

My eldest daughetr has only spent the night out with him about 3 times, the first went fine, the second she wanted mommy and started crying so he brought her back, and the third went fine as well. Mind you, the overnights were when she was about 3.5, and she is almost 5 now, and does just fine...

He now wants to take my 1.5 yr old overnight and I'm not sure how I feel about this. Unlike the other one, this one doesn't nurse and sleeps next to me but not in the same bed... I think she would do fine, but she seems kind of young... I'm just not sure if she's ready...?

Anyhow, I hope stories help... sorry, I tend to babble :P

[Holland73]

Well, this is the email I sent to stbx:

I just thought it might be a good idea to come up with a small list of guidelines, in regards to Oliver. First of all, I don't want you to think that I am trying to "keep" Oliver away from you...I SWEAR that is not my intention. If that was, I would not be so adamant about living in this country. It is because of you and my desire for Oliver to have a relationship with you that is one of the main factors that keeps me here. But...there has to be some guidelines and I use the word "guidelines", because they are not written in stone...they can be revised accordingly!

1. Introducing Oliver to new boyfriend/girlfriends. (I mean, "romantic" boyfriends/girlfriends)

Once the relationship has survived the first 6 months, then Oliver can meet this new person. This does not just go for you...this is also for me, when and if I ever get to that point. If anything, this will be even more difficult for me, as Oliver and I live together and I do not have as much freedom. But, I think this is VERY important!!!!

Additionally, when Oliver is introduced to new boyfriends/girlfriends, it would be best to do it all together. So, when you introduce Oliver to your girlfriend, Annemiek (correct?), I would also like to be there to meet her and her daughter. It would be easier for me, because this way I can meet her and see how she is with her own daughter. This is also very important, as she will have a big part in Oliver's life. And, I want to like her and have a positive "friendship"with her, because of Oliver and because she is important to you.

2. Taking Oliver for the day

I have absolutely NO problem if you want to take Oliver for the day, as long as you have him home by 17.00. This way, I have an hour to get him settled down, feed him dinner and get him to bed. If you want to take Oliver for the day, just give me a week's notice, so I can plan accordingly. BUT...I am trusting you, which makes me very nervous because you so easily lied to me just recently about this, to not have him around your new girlfriend. Please, please, please do not betray my trust on this!!!!!

3. Weekends with daddy

As this will not be a major issue for another year or two, I just thought we should get a general guideline. No weekends over until he is, at least, 2 years old. It will truly depend on Oliver and whether or not he is ready for it. So, we will take this one as it comes, based on Oliver.

Please, please, please understand that this will be difficult for me! It is not because I don't trust you or anything like that...it is just he is my life and, although I really want him to have a close relationship with you, it is also really, really hard for me to let him go. So, please try to understand and cut me some slack when we get to this point. My stomach already starts to twist into knots just thinking about it now. These feelings will eventually ease and might not be so bad by this time, if I feel safe and comfortable with you, Annemiek and the entire situation.

Now, if you have something to add, change or discuss...please tell me. These "guidelines" should be agreed upon by both of us.
If you agree, let me know. If not, also let me know, so we can discuss it...like adults and Oliver's parents.

He replied: "I completely agree with your guidelines. Very well done, Heather! :-)"

So...it was a success and we did have a little chat about it. Apparently, his new girlfriend has been trying to "help" him understand where I am coming from. That has worked in my favor!

We will see how things progress!

[Myethpio]

I probably should have asked earlier but my curiosity has peaked now... what is stbx?

[roxy]

i'm so glad someone else had the nerve to ask! at first, i thought "sh*tbox", which fits my ex perfectly, but all of a sudden it hit me..........."soon-to-be-ex".

am i right, girls?

now could someone please tell me how to do that smilie that's scratching it's head?

[Holland73]

Yep, you are right...soon-to-be-ex.

As for the smilies...when you post your message, you will see on the lefthand side some of the few smilies available. Click on "Get more" and you will see a list of all of them. Then just click on the smiley you want to use and it will insert is into the text.

Good luck!

[Millie Ivy]

Good job on the letter!!! You seem to be way further down the road to "good communication with thy stbx" then I was at that point in the divorce!!!

Congrats on getting your point across!

[SingleDad]

I think that's great that he responded that way to you too, good going!!!

[mocha09]

Hooray! Good for you!

[Holland73]

Thank you! I have to admit, I am very proud of myself for writing such a "diplomatic" email to stbx.

It really made me feel like I was handling this situation a lot better than I thought I was. It also made me realize I am a lot more of an "adult" than I thought I could be in this situation! :LOL

[SingleDad]

Well we're proud of you too!!