Taking the Scenic Route...to a BFP - Page 101

[indie1976]

now i want to see pics of sila!!

if you get the run around with your RE you could always go to your pcp for mthfr and thyroid. that would be both hugely frustrating (and yet nice to know what was going on) if this ended up being something that could have been prevented with extra folic acid and/or baby aspirin. i still wonder though about the hormone connection... i think it is interesting that you went from an 8.something in progesteone to a 14. something... it just sort of feels like your body was just getting closer to having the right balance...

[SilaMarila]

SKJ - Thanks  You really were scouring...those posts were from like Sept 2011 if I remember right. Sigh I miss my old ttc after loss board friends. They've all had babies now. Get the blood tsts. I felt better after I did. I buy your hormones out of whack theory since that is what my RE is saying is wrong with me (and acupuncturist). My RE constantly reminds me that just because I had DS and things worked right then, it doesn't mean things haven't changed and that they aren't right now. I wish my darn hormones would just get right already.

[SKJ2011]

Sila - does your RE have ideas on how to get things back on track? I feel like the western approach is to just throw the usual things at the problem - ovulation drugs. I have never had an annovulatory cycle since I've charted. I def. don't have a regular cycle and I ovulate anywhere from CD 13 - CD 18. Would injectibles help me? If so, how?

[jpack]

SKJ, I can't imagine saying no to baby aspirin. I mean, I'm allergic, so yeah, they can say no, but I've heard great things. Another thing I would throw out there, as I'm assuming you know, is that progesterone varies dramatically throughout the day. For example, I know it tends to drop in the hours following a big meal. I might have said this before, but I had been put on progesterone before m/c#2. I had low progesterone with loss #1 and generally. I asked my RE in the beginning whether she would put me on progesterone if I got a BFP. She said no. Her approach is if you have low progesterone, that's a symptom, not a root cause. That was for me, anyway. And she did want me to be on baby aspirin (except for the allergy) and folbic- high dose folic acid. So, FWIW, I think with some testing there are some easy first steps out there.

Shell Again,  I'm so so very sorry. You're so right for being angry, I'm so angry that anyone has to pay for this stuff - clearly it's something we all believe we all "should" be able to do naturally - it's not a luxury!

[indie1976]

i'm also surprised by the "no" to baby aspirin. i wonder why? i would think unless there is an allergy (like jpack) or an issue with your blood not clotting correctly, it really couldn't hurt and at best could help. i mean, we are supposed to be taking it daily for cardiovascular health as we get older, anyway... i swear, some docs just say no to everything without taking time to understand the questions.

[SKJ2011]

He said something about abnormal bleeding. I thought it was BS, but since I brought it up, I figured I should follow his advice. And, he said no to all the supplements. I ignored him on that except for DHEA b/c he wouldnt' test my levels. I just hope one of the docs can find something wrong to fix. And, if it's just hormones, how do I fix that?

[indie1976]

obviously not a doctor and totally pulling stuff out of my a$$ but i think you fix hormone issues by either 1) acupuncture or 2) ovulation medication. i'm pretty sure (again, people, please challenge me on this if you know better!) that hormone imbalances are either created by or caused by weak/insufficient ovulation. do you happen to know if you had higher progesterone when on clomid (and w/o supplementation)? sperm and egg obviously know how to meet and you seem to not have an issue with implantation... unless you are dealing with an antibody/mthfr situation i *think* the issue could be that you are not having a strong ovulation thus your low progesterone. and i believe that can be addressed either  naturally through acupuncture or through strong medications.

REs everywhere just cringed when they read my armchair assessment.

[SKJ2011]

I was thinking the same thing. So, idiotic RE NEVER tested my progesterone. As in, NEVER. Not when I was not supplementing, not on Clomid, never. His attitude is to just give me progesterone after O since it can't hurt. My theory is that I have low progesterone. I take supplements and the following month, I have a better cycle. The first time I took progesterone, I took oral prometrium after O in January. I didn't get pg, but I did the following cycle. Then, I had the m/c and D&C. I didn't take any progesterone after the D&C. I started it up again in April. Took it again in May and June. Then I saw the RE and he said prometrium sucks and to use crinone instead. In July is when I started the clomid. I think that didn't work b/c it thinned my lining too much. On the last clomid cycle, I decided to boost the crinone to twice a day and the next month I got pregnant. And, the next month, same thing.

So, I'm confident this is a progesterone issue. I agree with jpack that I'm really just putting a bandaid on the progesterone issue. I think somehow the previous cycle's progesterone level impacts the subsequent cycle's. So, maybe I need progesterone after O and an ovulatory drug that doesn't thin my lining. The first miscarriage was very different from the last two. Growth stopped around 6 weeks and my body hung onto it. These last two, the hcg is so low they can't even see anything on u/s. I'm just rambling now...

[Shell77]

My little egg did not make it... I am making a appointment for tomorrow to go over our options ... like embryo adoption... egg adoption... IDK... I guess i am going to go self medicaate with some wine and a bubble bath... this just can't be IT !! I can't just turn off my feelings of wanting a baby... I hope I was a fluke and this never happens to any of ya'll!!  I mean maybe its my age ;-/

[MindlessChrissy]

Aw hell SKJ and Shell. I am truly, deeply, and sincerely sorry. I just can't find the right words to express how my heart hurts for both of you.

[jpack]

Shell, I am so, so, so sorry. Oh, dear... You are a strong woman to get through this! I hope the wine is good and the bubble bath bubbley!

[toothfairy2be]

SKJ- As obviously not a doctor as much as indie is not a doctor, I agree with everything indie said. It sounds like you need something to help with your eggs. Progesterone does reflect egg quality. I don't understand why your RE has never tested these things... I'll remain hopeful that your baby will hang on and bounce back but if that isn't the case I hope they find some answers for you on Friday. Is the RPL specialist going to be your new RE? Also, as far as aspirin goes, my opinion is as long as you don't have an allergy, taking the 81 mg dose isn't going to make you bleed out.

Shelly- I'm so very sorry. There is no way to express how sad I am that this is happening. All that you have invested in this process. It is hard to say you can just give up on that dream and I hope there are other options available for you or they have some answers when you see the RE again. How is your husband doing?

Sila- I hope that ovulation comes soon. Did you say you are going back to the RE in February too? You and indie will be our February BFPs.

AFM- Feeling a little better today. Still not much appetite, headache, diaphram is sore. Tonight is my last BCP (but I didn't take my second to last yesterday because I was so sick). So far no bruises, shot #7 was tonight.

[lucillelove]

Shelly: Please do give yourself all the treats you want at this time, you deserve all and more.

SKJ: hang in there girl, you will definitely get through this. These doctors can be soo annoying and untrustworthy sometimes. I do hope they do all the tests they have to do and give you definite answers this time.

TF: So sorry are feeling sore. i am making it a duty to pray for you all very seriously now, that come 2013 you will all be singing a new song of joy and happiness.

Sila: Hope you get your O soon. Personally I think I am confused about my O, seems I wont be getting it this month. This whole thing is really beginning to be a bother!

Everyone else:

[indie1976]

shell - i'm just so sad. what you have experienced is exactly why i have struggled with getting to the decision of pursuing ivf. this kind of thing happens rather frequently. and then women go on to ivf #2 or #3 and eventually get their babe. but when we are paying out of pocket... well, who has $50k on tap? any chance you and hubby can rent out your house and move to MA or somewhere else with mandatory IVF insurance coverage for a year or two? i know that sounds drastic... but if you aren't ready to give up then it's yet another option... i do hope you get some clarity at your appointment today. i will be checking back to see what you found out...

toothfairy - i'm glad to hear you are getting a little better. that sounds just awful! but yay for taking your last bcp! things are going to start rocking and rolling now!

skj - that really is crazy that your RE never actually tested progesterone. it amazes me how there just seems to be a lack of standards of practice when comparing all of our RE experiences. i really thought progesterone testing was a standard of practice! i know REs disagree on the value of progesterone supplementation for the very reason that jpack mentioned. when progesterone is low some will presribe supplementation and others will prescribe higher doses of ovulation medication and others will prescribe both...  but I've yet to hear of one who didn't see the value in testing it in the first place. i think you are right about needing an ovulation drug that doesn't thin your lining. i seem to recall that your RE also wouldn't prescribe you femara? i think it would be worth a try to go on femara (letrozole) since it doesn't have the same effects on lining and cm as clomid.

lucille and chrissy - nice to "see" you. hope you are well!

afm - ivf info session tonight. called to confirm that it hasn't been moved to another night :) not looking forward to it... hoping it doesn't raise my anxiety. would have prefered to go through it after having met with the new doctor and having a plan in place but oh well.

[SilaMarila]

SKJ - And you mentioned to your Dr. that you have a history of clotting and he still wouldn't do the RPL work up??? To answer your question, unlike my acupuncturist who is in this for the long run and wants to fix the problem (and is constantly reminding me that this is something I have been dealing with ever since I started menstruating so it is going to take a long time to fix it) my RE's job is to get me pregnant as soon as possible and to keep me that way. He thinks injectables would do that. I forget what your medicated cycles were. Clomid? And you had lining issues with those? With injectables, your ovaries are directly stimulated whereas oral drugs stimulate your brain to stimulate your ovaries. Once you start the injections you are monitored almost daily allowing them to change your dosage if needed in order to keep your hormones at a level that should guarantee good eggs. That is his thinking with me. That if we can more closely monitor my hormones and get me to make more than 1 follicle we should have a good chance.

Otherwise I don't know how to "fix" it. A few things can throw off hormone function and production and I'm none of them. For instance being over weight or underweight, and consuming obesogens (chemical compounds found in most processed food and materials that throw off metabolic function). A lot of it can be fixed through diet and exercise. 

I'm really struggling right now with wanting to heal myself, but also just being so done with all this and wanting my baby now because I can do this later. I can go on....

Indie - Maybe I can PM you a pic hehe. Have fun at the info session! Even though I guess you aren't looking forward to it. Though now I know you are practically an RE and will already know everything they tell you.

Shell - Again, so sorry.

Tfairy - Not fair to be sick and on meds!

Lucille - Seriously, where are our eggs? Come on now, how are we supposed to make a baby with out them?

Hi everyone else.

AFM - I had a whole bunch to ramble about but now it feels like to much trouble. Still no ovulation. Woke up to a super low temp. Heres to hoping it shoots up tomorrow. I've got a little party tonight so I'm hoping DH is awake when I get home (not planning on staying too late) and I can get one more BD out of him even though he needs to wake up early for work. Because there won't be any BDing Thurs night since I'm seeing The Hobbit at 12am. I am a proud nerd.

[Shell77]

My RE appointment is not until monday at 4 :-( I am so depressed ... me and DH are fighting, everyone is mad at me... I just don't want to to do anything anymore.

[indie1976]

oh, shell. i'm so sorry. be kind to yourself and to dh. you guys just suffered a huge blow and rarely do we process disappointments in the same exact way as our partners. on top of it all are all those hormones and all that your poor body has been put through...  it just makes for a giant powder keg of emotions. is there any chance you can do some some yoga? go get a long massage? sit in a sauna? do something physical to help you move those emotions through you?

[indie1976]

sila - i love proud nerds! you will have to tell us if the hobbit is everything it is hyped to be...

[toothfairy2be]

Shell- You haven't done anything wrong, there is no way you could have known this would be the outcome. It is important you take care of yourself right now, everyone else is not coming down off all the hormones you have been on and they can't possibly understand the impact of their words on you after what you have been through. Take it easy and just love your husband, this isn't the fault of either of you and the best way to survive it is to get back to why you are together in the first place, because you love each other. Thinking of you & praying for healing.

Sila- Enjoy the movie! I went to see Twilight at midnight once (Eclipse) so just own the nerdiness! Are you still having signs of ovulation or was it a fake out? The temp dip is a good sign... Come on big strong egg!

Lucille- Hope your egg shows up soon too!

AFM- This headache just won't budge. Thankful that I didn't work today so I could take a mid-day nap but really wishing I just felt better already.

[SilaMarila]

indie - I can already tell you it will be 

Tfairy - Yes! Still EWCM and I just checked my cervix and it's high soft and open. Breast tinglyness when I wake up the last 2 mornings. All good signs. I haven't had any fake outs since before I did Clomid. Since then once I get the EWCM it just keeps on going until it eventually happens. This will be the 1st midnight movie I've seen since DS was born. Prior to that in my high school and college days I went to so many. I'm just REALLY excited about this once since it is my favorite book too