thanks, skj. i won't be doing any testing this month (that i know of) but if she asks me tomorrow what cd i'm on i wanted to be prepared with an answer. if i never had several gushes of red blood (sorry, so gross, i know) i would definitely say i'm cd2 today. it's that red blood that makes me so confused, you know what i mean? i guess i'll just hope that my cycle will be a little more clear when it is time for baselines...
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Taking the Scenic Route...to a BFP - Page 104post #2061 of 221912/17/12 at 10:19ampost #2062 of 221912/17/12 at 10:24amSorry Indie. I don't know why our bodies are such crap sometimes. It's so frustrating. I think I'd be more inclined to think you are CD 4. If she asks you, I would just explain your confusion.
As for red gushes, I'm right there with you. This time is much, much heavier and crampier than last time. I just want to curl up and go to bed, but instead I'm on a conference call at work.post #2063 of 221912/17/12 at 11:47am
Let’s see how much I can remember of what I’ve read! Things have suddenly gotten super busy with work (so much for phoning it in over the holidays!) and this weekend was a bit of a blur…
Skj – I’m just super sad you are going through another loss. I totally don’t know how you are holding it together and working and going on with life as usual… you are an inspiration. Really. It reminds me that no matter what happens, all we can do is keep putting one foot in front of the other… I think I agree with jpack about getting all of your RPL blood work back before making a decision about injectibles. It will also give you time to continue with acupuncture… the fact that you are able to get pregnant with such regularity tells me that you have some time to figure all this out.
Jpack – I’m so sorry this cycle was a disappointment. You certainly can rest in the thought that you have done everything possible on your end! Hope you had a great time decorating and that your RE appointment gives you more clarity.
Shell – don’t worry for a second about scaring us. IVF is scary business, period. I’m looking forward to seeing what is next for you and dh and I am with skj – all my hopes to you that you get your post ivf “free” baby.
Toothfairy – so exciting!!! i love your dream. So are you ready for twin boys? You and gtree can form a twin boy club! At my IVF info session the doc talked about ways to get around having too many embryos… he talked about fertilizing only a few of the eggs and then freezing the rest… that way you still preserve fertility but you are not creating embryos that may eventually need to be discarded… have you considered this?
Sila – ugh to your stubborn ovaries. I really wish both of our bodies would just cooperate. Glad you enjoyed the hobbit!
Bebe- A GIRL!!! I’m so excited for you! Can’t wait to hear what your options are for names!
Gtree – thank you thank you thank you for telling me that you had three periods in 45 days prior to IVF. That helps me to calm down a bit. How exciting that you can feel them move! I bet that is an even crazier feeling with twins!
Chrissy – I am with you on no one being able to hold me back from finding out whether or not my child was hurt… I’ve never really considered that I would do homeschooling but for the first time I can really, truly see the benefit. This world can be such a scary place. I just can’t even fathom the pain those parents are going through and the survivor’s guilt the other children and parents and teachers are going through. Such a horrible situation any way you look at it.
AFM – tomorrow is finally the day. I wish I could say I was feeling calm and grounded and all that… but I’m not. I realized how much I like having IVF as an option that is “out there”… it allowed me to largely separate from all of my ttc anxieties for a while. Now that it is getting closer I am finding myself having all kinds of intrusive thoughts about whether I should be doing this, that or the other to increase my chances and wanting to make sure that I cover every possible base before pulling the trigger… I vacillate between wanting to control and question every single aspect to wanting to just mentally check out and go through the motions. Not sure how to find the middle ground. Guess I’ll be looking to you ladies to help me with that! Please keep a positive thought for me. My appointment is at 8:45 tomorrow morning…post #2064 of 221912/17/12 at 12:15pmI just found out that the lab that the new doc uses for all the crazy tests is out of network. I owe them $500 for a single blood test. The other tests she wants to run are $1200 and $1175. Why does this have to be so fucking hard?!?!?
ETA: Crisis half averted. So, the new docs office was really nice. They can do most of the testing with an in-network lab. I will likely need to pay another $850 instead of the $1200 + $1175. So, not terrible, but not great.
The good news is that my hcg is down to 73.9!! Hooray!
Indie - I TOTALLY hear you on your fears/worries about IVF. It's my "back up plan" and I feel like it WILL work, so I always know it's an option. But, the reality is that is not true. Honestly, I think the best thing you can do is be reserved about it. I know that is impossible to do, but if you can find some peace with whatever happens, I think that will make for the easiest road. That's what I've been doing and is the only thing that's kept me sane. I feel so sure I will have a baby, but I have no idea how or when. I think that if you can find a place to believe that your baby is out there waiting for you, the IVF process will go smoother. I don't know how you get to a place of belief. I know it was a long road for me to get there. I think I focused so much on the how and when than the if. I'm not sure if any of this is helping at all. My brain is all foggy today.
I think the more you try to control things, the harder it will be. But, I completely understand the tendency. Maybe try to focus on the end result more than the process. Visualize your baby growing in your belly and the joy of holding him or her in your arms for the first time. Don't think about the number of follicles or your estrogen level, etc. ? Just an idea.
Edited by SKJ2011 - 12/17/12 at 12:38pmpost #2065 of 221912/17/12 at 12:36pmpost #2066 of 221912/17/12 at 3:55pm
Woah I got way behind. I'll have to go back and read everything.
Indie - What's tomorrow? An IVF appt? Sorry I better read back. I'm having similar fear of pulling the trigger thoughts.
AFM - Don't worry guys, you haven't missed anything. I'm 30 days in with out ovulation. EWCM still going strong. I'm having major thoughts of do I want us to spend the money on injectables? Or should we put it toward (embryo)adoption? Do I even want to do any of this at all? Geez...
I'll be back..post #2067 of 221912/17/12 at 7:15pm
Sila- Getting behind happens in a flash around here. There will be no posts for days and then 10 in just a few hours. It is overwhelming! Where is your damn egg and why hasn't it just POPPED already. I don't know the answer to what you want for the future. I know how expensive injectables can be and if your ovaries don't respond it can take a lot of meds to make some eggs. Even with injectables I only made 2 eggs (super annoying after getting a better response on Clomid). It is a lot to think about when you are paying out of pocket.
Indie- Good Luck tomorrow! I know you are prepared for your appointment and I hope that it brings together everything you are hoping for and gives you confidence that you are heading in the right direction. IVF is a weird thing, like SKJ said, it was always this option that was 'out there' or 'in the future' and now here it is. It really is 'all your eggs in one basket' and that is scary. I will be thinking of you and praying that this new doctor has a better connection with you and gives you some peace about starting the process. I would go with CD2 only because I've had that red gushing thing and I don't think it counts as 'full flow'. It is really annoying but in case they want to do CD3 bloodwork you can do it while you are there. I'll add more later but I totally get you on loss of control, it is overwhelming. I think because we have insurance coverage we don't have as many options so I can't freeze eggs, only embryos (at least and have it paid for).
SKJ- Whoa on the cost of your blood work. I'm glad they can switch to an in-network lab. I've never heard anything like that before! Glad your body is cooperating with your HCG dropping (though it stinks that the symptoms are worse this time). You totally impress me with your diet and supplements. It is nice to see that they are working for you too. Sorry you are away from home during the m/c too. That must be terrible.
jpack- Personally I would try something other than Clomid. Especially if you have already tried it for a few cycles. Your appointment is coming up too, right?
I feel like I should've been more detailed in my responses. Sorry if I missed anything.
AFM- My ultrasound looked great, lining is thin and ovaries are quiet. No cysts. Estrogen was under 20 (they want under 60). Unfortunately they stagger their start dates so they scheduled me to start on Friday. That put my CD5 monitoring on Christmas Day which I told them at my consent signing I can't do because we are 3 hours away for Christmas. So I called and they told me to still start Friday but to come in Monday instead for monitoring and then again Thursday. They didn't want me to start earlier since we are supposed to be away Tues/Wed and they don't want me to be too far along and then have them miss something from being gone. Am I making sense? So I am going to call tomorrow to see if I come home Wednesday for monitoring if I can start Thursday instead. I think I'm going to start Thursday anyway and they can just go with it when my follicles are whatever size on Monday. They said starting Friday my tentative retrieval date would be New Years Eve. When I am working... so if I can start a day early and retrieve on Sunday instead that would be greaaat. So, as per usual, I am going against my doctors advice... unless of course they OK me starting early. Let's hope for that :) For now anyway, just on Lupron. For some reason the change in schedule -not that it is really a change, just I expected to start tonight or tomorrow, so waiting another few days has totally shaken my confidence. I just wanted to get this show on the road and waiting until the end of the week irks me. It is MY turn. Just let me START already.post #2068 of 221912/17/12 at 8:05pm
TF - YAY!!! I was so exact my first ivf cycle and quickly learned over a holiday weekend that some people just didn't show up and would come in the next day. I think, especially at the beginning, it is not that big of a deal and has more to do with them getting the patient numbers right (instead of having 10 people there xmas day and then 150 there the day after). AND, I might add my retrieval both times would have happened 2-4 days later than their prediction.
Indie - Good luck tomorrow!!!! I put you on CD 2 today, so get tested tomorrow. I remember having CD 1, like 3 days in a row one time with similar symptoms to you. Just explain to the dr. and see what she says.post #2069 of 221912/18/12 at 8:51am
sila - ugh i feel you, girl. weighing all these options is just so hard. i do think i would try injectables first... but that's just me.
toothfairy - how frustrating with all the date confusion but a new year's (or close to) new year's eve retrieval just sounds so... auspicious! yay for a great ultrasound!
gtree - thanks for weighing in on my cycle day conundrum! turns out the doc thought i was more cd 5 rather than 3 today and didn't want to do baselines until next cycle...
afm - so. appointment done. i LOVE her. LOVE LOVE LOVE her. it appears there have been other patients in the practice who have switched to her due to frustrations with my particular doc and his staff. she asked me to write everything down and give to her so she can take it to the senior partner. also? she offered me her email address without me even having to ask. don't know if you guys remember but that has been one of my biggest pet peeves is that the other doc would not give me access to him and i had to go through nurses for everything - even stuff that they would definitely not be able to answer. she does most of her appointments at an office that is 45 minutes away from us compared to the other office which is just about 2 miles away from our house, but i don't care. i will make that drive for someone who listens and gives thoughtful responses to questions.
so, things that stand out for me:
1. she talked us into doing at least one more IUI. i told her my reasonings for not wanting to waste time with IUI (mostly financial and additionally i didn't see how it gave me much better of a chance). she said that it all made sense BUT she had looked through how i responded to my one and only IUI cycle this summer and she said that my response was fantastic, great progesterone, follicle size, it just didn't work... she did say that my lining was a little on the thin side so she would do letrozole instead of clomid and would add in gonal-f. i decided i am ok with doing one more IUI if we are changing up the protocol... that was why i didn't want to continue with IUIs is because the other doc was going to give me the same exact protocol AND even though i had specifically asked about my lining, i was told it was "fine" when it was not and they wanted to keep giving me clomid? argh. like my dh said, we can more easily make up $1300 to $1500 out of our IVF fund than we can make up the $15+k from a failed IVF... so IUI in january. now i need to sit down and look at dates because my calendar is filling up fast with out of state stuff.
2. she actually had a conversation with me about estrogen priming protocol! she said she has used it with women who have had a poor response to meds and would be willing to use it the first IVF cycle with me since my amh is so low.
3. she gave me a list of supplements she wants me to take... most of which i am already taking... but she wants me to go back on dhea. the other doctor's nurse totally dismissed my desire to do dhea... this doc brought it up without asking... just another plus for me... the other doc only wanted me on coq10 and nothing else....
4. there is other stuff but i don't have time now to go into it.
anyway, thanks for your positive vibes. i do love this doctor so much more. still nervous about not having a start date for IVF and doing IUI first but for now, i feel much more confident in the care i'm getting.
oh, get this, half of the blood work results the np gave me at my pcp? it was from 2010!! it was old blood work. just found that out today.
i swear i could write a book on dumb medical office experiences...post #2070 of 221912/18/12 at 10:00ampost #2071 of 221912/18/12 at 10:41amI'm back...
TF - Ugh on the scheduling. Were you able to talk to the nurse? I hate how this is just everyday business for them and it's your hopes and dreams! I hope you get the approval to start when you want to. Glad the cysts are gone and things look good. I'm so excited for you!!!
Sila - I'm right there with you. It's so hard to make these decisions. I think if I were you, I'd try injectibles, but I understand the reluctance. I hope your temp is up soon. So frustrating!
Indie - That is such fantastic news about the new doc. She sound really great. I like her thinking on injectibles. In the grand scheme of things, it's probably financially worth giving it a shot b/c it could work and it will help her tailor your IVF too. I feel like she's answered all your concerns in the exact way you were hoping. Such great news. I would love to hear the supplements she wants you to take. All the docs I've seen have been anti-supplements. I'm still wondering about DHEA, but I"d want to check my levels first. Anyways, except for your idiotic PCP, sounds like you've totally turned a corner! I think 2013 is going to bring a ton of BFPs on this thread.
AFM - This loss is much more "significant" than the last one. I"m bleeding a lot. I guess the difference is my progesterone being higher this time. Nothing else going on.post #2072 of 221912/18/12 at 12:40pm
skj - weird question, but does having more bleeding/cramping make it any "easier" (weird word) to grieve? i guess i ask because i've always felt like i missed an opportunity to physically grieve with my one m/c. maybe it's kind of masochistic, but i wished i could have had a physical experience that would have matched my emotional one. does that make sense? like, it seems healing on some level that you have physical evidence of a loss. just wondered what your thoughts are on that... i'm sorry you are having to go through this outside of the comfort of your own home. again, you really are a strong woman. you really inspire me to toughen up :) so... guess what? i'm going to be in chicago in early january! i wonder if we could meet for coffee? would that be totally awkward or totally cool?
afm - i emailed the new RE a short thank you note. she replied in 20 minutes. i think i have a crush.
here's my fear about getting pregnant without going through ivf: even though i will surely not produce many eggs at all considering my super crazy low amh, there is still at least a possibility that i could produce enough to have one or two frozen for future use thus preserving my fertility at almost 37 years old and giving me a greater chance of more than one child. if i get pregnant via iui or naturally... i would have to wait nearly a year before trying for number 2 with older eggs. i know anything is possible and there are a zillion stories of women who get pregnant easier after struggling forever to get their first child yadayadayada (don't get me wrong, i still love those stories) but so far i don't seem to be someone who gets lucky like that...
i looked at my calendar and did my best to count out days til my next cycle and i *think* i will be ok to do an iui in january... the only problem is if i end up with a super short cycle (totally possible) - that would put my cd 1-3 when i'm in chicago and thus unable to do my baselines... i wonder if i should try over the counter progesterone this cycle? will that help me to make sure i start my cycle at a convenient time? or does over the counter not have that much impact? should i ask for prescription? thoughts?post #2073 of 221912/18/12 at 12:51pmEeek! Yes! Come meet me for coffee! That would be so awesome. I'll pm you my email address and phone number. OMG, I'm so excited! Now you are probably thinking this was a bad idea
I would ask the rock star RE about timing. I think you could also have someone in Chicago do your baselines. I thought about that when we were always traveling. I mean, people cycle out of town all the time, right? It's worth looking in to. I totally understand your thoughts on IVF for fertility preservation. DId you mention that to the RE? I think you have a really compelling argument. I was just talking to someone about this. She was even saying that you could do multiple egg retrievals to "stockpile" eggs to preserve your fertility. I know of a friend who has a low AMH and high FSH. She did three rounds of "mini-IVF" where she got a few (1 or 2) really good quality eggs. They did all the retrievals and when they were satisfied that they had enough eggs, they did a FET. She was self-pay and she did one of those package deals so it wasn't so expensive, all things considered. Anyways, all this to say that I totally get where you are coming from and I think it's an important discussion to have with the RE.
As for the m/c being "easier", I'd say yes and no. Yes in that it feels more real and I feel like I can move on now. No in that I feel like my womb was so prepared to nurture a baby and why didn't it work? I feel so ok with everything that I'm worried I'm not processing it or something. I guess I feel mostly ok b/c I have confidence that this will work. I went from unable to get pregnant to unable to maintain it. It was much harder when I was unable to get pregnant. I think I'm just getting closer to the end goal and at least now I have someone really taking a look at my particular case and not lumping me into the typical IF bin.post #2074 of 221912/18/12 at 1:17pm
yayayay! just pm'd you. anyone else in chicago?? i need to look back and everyone's profiles... anyone want to take a quick trip to chicago ;-) scenic route meetup!
also, i love your profile pic!
that's very interesting about doing several mini ivfs... i need to talk this through with my dh... though i think he just loves the idea of a possibility exisiting that doesn't involve a ton of money... and i totally get you on having someone who is considering your specific case. it makes a world of difference, doesn't it?post #2075 of 221912/18/12 at 8:00pm
Indie - thanks so much for the reassurance that I did everything I could, that made me smile! I'm so, so, happy for you that you have a good RE! It sounds like a fantastic experience, and I'm so glad that she's someone you can build a good relationship with! That's great about the supplements and her approach. Wow! It's so great that you can really level with her and get your questions genuinely answered, rather than just brushed over (or, as I feel so many times, you think in the moment, oh great, they answered my question, then on the way home you think, "hey, wait, that wasn't a real answer at all!!"). I'm so glad for you that a tide has turned in your care! That's a strong concern about saving eggs, but it's also gamble, right? A couple questions I would have would be, how might you feel about embryo/egg/baby adoption if you were in that situation in a few years? How soon do they let you try for #2? Very interesting...
SKJ - Hope the worst has passed. Hope the HCG keep dropping fast! And I typed out a post to you about some success I've had in the past relentlessly pursuing lower bills from health providers/insurance companies, but I'm assuming you're on it! And, thanks so much for the feedback - I looked into the myo-inositol, which took me to d-chiro-inositol, which was, well, whoa! I was actually diagnosed with PCOS many years ago - I think I had missed a couple cycles and have acne and blah blah blah. The doctor I saw stopped practicing and I never got to really follow up other than take a prescription for metformin for a couple of months. I don't really remember that much -- it was college -- but all that research got me thinking. I should probably do another fasting glucose -- all my other recent tests have been normal and with a regular cycle, etc., I haven't thought even to bring it up to my RE. I understand the DCI's supposed to help with egg quality -- even without PCOS? There's always so much more to learn! And, I can totally give up drinking, but -- as I've probably covered -- I don't think giving up coffee is in the cards for me!
Any o, Sila?
TF Sorry, I'm kinda slow -- what does your estimated timeline look like? What did they say about Thursday? I'm so excited for you! I'm glad everything else looked good!
GTree - When I was pregnant with DD, I wondered about twins, I always thought it would be so different, but maybe it's not. I'd love to hear if you notice patterns of sleeping or hiccuping or anything as the time goes on. Hope you're feeling good!
AFM As I noted above, I'm still looking at other supplements or ideas to try. TF thanks for your thoughts about something other than clomid, Yeah, unfortunately I'll be starting the clomid Friday, and not seeing the RE til the following Thursday. So I guess I'll stick to it for this cycle and try something else next cycle. I have no clue where all the time has gone - I feel like it should still be November. I've been working, working, working. I really need a break, I think! I have a big party planned for Saturday, and I haven't done a thing yet to prepare. Bleh. Anyway, I have big hopes for 2013! Lot's of BFPs!post #2076 of 221912/18/12 at 8:56pmpost #2077 of 221912/19/12 at 10:52am
jpack - thanks so much for your enthusiasm for my appointment! we have to celebrate the small stuff, right? i think you are absolutely right, this stuff is a gamble either way. i think i've decided to just go forward with IUI first... i keep reminding myself that at some point i just have to trust that all will work out as it "should". whatever "should" is. i am able to do that in so many other areas of my life (i am far from a type "A" personality) but when it comes to having babies... very difficult for me to just let go and trust. but... i must. for what it's worth, my RE told me to take dhea, myoinositol, l-arginine, and vitamin E along with prenatals and extra folic acid. i was on dhea and myoinositol for like 4 months but backed off on a lot of supplements over the past two cycles... so, here i go again. also, she said it was ok to have up to one drink a night in the follicular phase but nothing during the luteal phase and to not go over one cup a day of coffee. i know there is much discrepancy around alcohol and caffeine intake and egg quality/fertility so i try to limit my intake as much as possible without going all deprivation mode on myself. i don't do well in deprivation mode it always ends in over-indulgence mode :) good luck with your big party! we have to get ready for Christmas eve... so! much! to! do!
gtree - thanks for the reminder that it is ultimately up to me... i thought about that last night and realized that is exactly what the doc would tell me... so, after talking to DH we decided to go forward with IUI (assuming all comes back fine with my blood work... she did say if i had a big jump in my fish she would go straight to IVF). i just can't account for every little possibility and right now that's all these thoughts are - possibilities.
AFM - left a message about the possibility of doing progesterone this cycle to make sure i am starting AF when I'm in town. which i guess also means i need to start back up with opks. blah. i really like avoiding all that stuff.
hope everyone else is well! post!post #2078 of 221912/19/12 at 12:08pmpost #2079 of 221912/19/12 at 12:15pm
Indie - I'm so happy to hear how it is going with your new Dr! The IUI protocol makes sense to me. Unless, like you said your blood work doesn't come back good.
Jpack - No!!! Ugh!
SKJ - Hang in there with the bleeding. I hope it starts slowing down soon.
Tfairy - I would have reacted the same way about your slight change in schedule. Little things like that really through me off too. It sounds like you have adjusted to the idea now. You're getting so close!!! Did the ICSI ever get approved? We were planning on waiting until Feb. until the RE because I want to do injectables when I don't have any doula clients. I don't want to stress out about missing monitoring or the injections ect. We'll see how long this current cycles goes and when I get AF and when my last Jan. client has her baby.
AFM - No temp rise. No ovulation. EWCM continues (which I'm kind of over because I have been using like 2-3 pairs of panties a day). Cramping continues. All the sex continues. DH is still going strong. I'm kind of excited that I won't get AF on Christmas. The last 2yrs she's timed it just that perfectly and it was a big blow. So you guys think I should do the injectables??? I wish there was some kind of guarantee that I could know if it would work or not. I'm also suddenly second guessing a December baby...post #2080 of 221912/19/12 at 1:02pmSila - way to keep it up!
Indie- very cool, so glad she's so responsive!
AFM- us this am went fine - except when I told the tech about my weird ovary pain on the right side before af. Nothing seemed to remain on the rt ovary, but there was a bi swath of darkness along my uterus, which she said was clear evidence that I had a fluid-filled cyst that must have ruptured. She was all, "there's nothing to worry about, it'll clear up on its own" and there was no mention in the report from the nurse this pm. I was kinda freaked out and of course hit google scholar. I'm thinking it was a luteinized unruptured follicle. Hmmm, at least that would explain why this otherwise great looking cycle was a bust! Makes me skeptical about clomid. Hmmm.
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