Grandma is undermining our parenting

[thermo]

Grandma indulges my almost-4-year-old son beyond all reason. When he is with her, he is constantly plied with cookies and toys and screen time. She indulges his every whim. With her there are seemingly no boundaries, nothing educational, and no thought as to what might be good for him in terms of his long term growth. Everything is about satisfying anything he could hope for now. When she is not with him in person, my son Skypes with her. Most of those Skype sessions are comprised of grandma showing him the new toys she is amassing for him, while she takes down lists of his wants so that she can buy more.

She definitely loves him dearly. But this seems to be as much about buying his love than providing for him. She is competitive when it comes to his affection. She always asks where he gets toys that she does not recognize.

When my son spends any time with her, which is of course his favorite thing to do, he regresses in many ways. He becomes lazy. He demands to watch TV constantly. He demands junk food. His parents become of little interest to him.

Grandma is my son's corruptor – but my son is under 4 years old. This is not new of course. We have tried to reason with her. We try to make boundaries. But she can be evil. Around me, she pays lipservice. But when she is alone with my wife she becomes vicious and manipulative. She is narcissistic. She is mean. She makes my wife cry. She brings up my wife’s dead father as some kind of bizarre psychological torture weapon. She is disrespectful.

I am torn about this. I want to provide as much love as possible to my son. And anyone that loves him should be showering that love on him. But this is love comes with some pretty nasty side-effects. Torn.

[philomom]

Why then, do you allow her access to your small child if she's so bad? You are the parent and you have control... be the parent!

[thermo]

She has access to him because she is his grandmother and showers love on him. And because it would tear my wife apart to turn it into a war.

[One_Girl]

I used to use this phrase with a lot of success: "I am not grandma and you will not (fill in behavior here)." This one also works "I painted your legs on so you can go do it yourself. " I found that I react better when I focus on what my rules and expectations are instead of what my dd's grandma's aren't. It also helped my DD to be more aware of her behavior when I pointed out, in a mostly non-judgemental tone, the differences between my expectations and grandma's.

[McGucks]

Some of this sounds way beyond typical "grandmother spoiling" and well into pathology.

Decide what is most important to you.  Our boundaries relate to time (DS, who is almost 2, sees ILs about once a week), no t.v., and no junk food.  We have not had them babysit, either...if we visit (they live close), it is a family visit.  We do not use them so we can go out or party or whatever (not that those are "bad" things, of course, I am just explaining how we handle it all).

There are people in your situation who would also cease contact based on the hurtful behavior towards your wife.  To truly respect the grandchild, this grandmother must also respect the children's parents.

Good luck.  You've got your work cut out for you, as you know.

[Angelorum]

Originally Posted by thermo 

She has access to him because she is his grandmother and showers love on him. And because it would tear my wife apart to turn it into a war.

Showering someone with love does not mean giving them whatever they want regardless of whether it is good for them or not.  That kind of love substitute is damaging to your son.  Setting clear and firm boundaries is the way to manage this, and yes grandma will probably pitch a fit, but if you don't want a war, don't fight one.  Tell her where the boundary is, and if she can't talk respectfully to you about it afterwards, hang up the phone/ leave or whatever.

[bookwise]

one good boundary might be to say your son will have x amount of toys. if grandma gives any new ones, they will be donated to the nearest charity or grandson can decide which toys he will give away. that way, you are still in control.

also, i would definitely limit and supervise time with grandma. it wasn't clear to me - is this your mother or your wife's? either way, if she plays nicely when you're around, i would make it a point to be there ALL the time that grandson is with her. is that possible? and maybe limit skype as well? i take it grandma isn't far away, if she can visit often?

this doesn't sound like love to me - it's not a respectful one, that's for sure. not just to you parents but to your son as well. what happens when he's 16 or 17, will grandma buy him a car? let him drink and drive? have girls over at her house? i mean, it really sounds like there's NO limits. this is a damaging relationship and i would really really think about limiting it *dramatically*.

i understand your wife doesn't want a war, but it really sounds like grandma is leaving no choice. 

[thermo]

Thanks for all of your input. She is my wife's mother. I have been ready to get more resolute on a number of occasions, but my wife has asked me to let her handle it. Of course my wife ends up in tears and without any satisfactory progress when she does. 

We live quite far from grandma. But we see her regularly... and of course there is the frequent Skyping. 

[lizvan]

Can you disable Skype? "it just stopped working" with a shrug and a comment that you will have to work on it. That would work for a 4 year old and a grandma. Dang computers!  If he gets the gifts at grandma's, maybe he can choose two small ones to bring home and the rest will have to live at grandma's house.  People change their tune when they are the ones waist deep in plastic crap. If she brings it you will have to be proactive about getting rid of stuff. If he gets a ton, he probably won't remember a lot of it later. 

Supervise! My SIL used to actively go against what I wanted, so she was never left with my kids.

Good luck!

[thermo]

Supervision is not great for me. Yes, while I'm around she somewhat behaves herself. But even while she is on her good behavior, she is very irritating when it comes to her interaction with my son. For example, she is constantly obsessing about how to get him to eat more and how to get him to eat and what to get him to eat. She chases him around and tries to put food in his mouth. All of that is unnecessary, of course. When he is with me, I make healthy food available and when he is hungry he eats it.

I don't want to intervene in the minutiae of her food obsessing.. but I also don't want to listen to it.

Edited by thermo - 2/19/12 at 5:17pm

[A&A]

Originally Posted by lizvan 

Can you disable Skype? "it just stopped working" with a shrug and a comment that you will have to work on it. That would work for a 4 year old and a grandma. Dang computers!  If he gets the gifts at grandma's, maybe he can choose two small ones to bring home and the rest will have to live at grandma's house.  People change their tune when they are the ones waist deep in plastic crap. If she brings it you will have to be proactive about getting rid of stuff. If he gets a ton, he probably won't remember a lot of it later. 

Supervise! My SIL used to actively go against what I wanted, so she was never left with my kids.

Good luck!

I agree with this. "Skype died, so sorry." And leave the majority of crap at G-mas.



Your MIL had a chance to parent already. This is YOUR chance (and your wife's chance.) Don't let MIL mess it up.

[fiddlefern]

My fil also has difficulty with boundaries.  In terms of toys, if he brings a new toy into the house (unless it's Christmas or birthday), HE gets to go help my kids figure out which toy they will give to Goodwill in order to make room for the new toy.  This has greatly stemmed the tide of crap.  We have a small apartment and the weekly or more toys were out of control.  When he brings over junky food, I say thank you, take it from him, put it up in the cupboard, and say "the kids will love to have this at dessert time- thanks for bringing it!"  There was a period of time when he was not allowed to be with the kids unsupervised because we could not trust him with regards to sugar/ TV/ buying stuff, and also just general safety in terms of busy streets, etc.  We never told him he wasn't allowed, we just didn't make plans where he was alone with the kids.  Now that they're 7 and 5, they know our household rules and unfortunately I do get reports that THEY reminded HIM of the boundaries.  I let him take them out now mostly because now he gets to reap what he sows in terms of their unruly conduct in his presence.  He's embarrassed in public now!  As a matter of fact, he has started asking me to come with him when he takes the kids out, because he sees that their behavior is so much better when I'm around.  Go figure.

At least your mil's farther away and doesn't see the kids 3-4 times a week like my fil (he has good points too, I'm just pointing out his limitations because of your situation).  Limit Skype.  I have no problem with the direct and honest approach (fil isn't one to blow up though) but if you can't be direct, maybe you can follow pp advice to have Skype "break."  Or blame your pediatrition.  "We were told to limit screen time."  Or suddenly be very busy.  I agree with other posters that YOU are the parents.  Also wanted to add that your mil seems abusive, and you need to encourage your wife to break the cycle of abuse for the sake of her son, if not for her own sake.  As PP said, this is your chance- you and your wife have a responsibility not to let your mil mess things up for your kid.

[fiddlefern]

Also wanted to add- in our household, dh isn't great at standing up to his dad.  They have a pretty passive and conflict avoidant relationship.  However, after years of me modeling the direct and unabashedly "hey, these are MY rules" approach, dh has gotten much better at putting his foot down too.  It's probably very hard for your wife to stick up to her mom because she's got all that family baggage.  What helped in my situation is that my husband and I agree about boundaries with fil, so we're not working at cross purposes.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by thermo 

She has access to him because she is his grandmother and showers love on him. And because it would tear my wife apart to turn it into a war.

Get into marriage counseling now. Your entire marriage is resting on TNT and could explode. And your son's future happiness depends on it.

This is way beyond normal grandma stuff, and it isn't loving to either your son or your wife. Your wife has no idea how to deal with her mother, and your son won't either.

[McGucks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Get into marriage counseling now. Your entire marriage is resting on TNT and could explode. And your son's future happiness depends on it.

This is way beyond normal grandma stuff, and it isn't loving to either your son or your wife. Your wife has no idea how to deal with her mother, and your son won't either.

I agree.  And if your wife won't go with you, go alone.  This is truly serious stuff.

[pickle18]

I agree.  Your son deserves a happy mommy, not one upset by Grandma (and, whether it is apparent or not, he is surely feeling the effects of all of this - kids are affected by even that which we try to keep from them).  As you have indicated, he will certainly not learn to respect you as a parent when your MIL so obviously does not.  

I truly understand the desire to paint a rosy picture and include Grandma.  I am constantly being pushed and pulled by this desire with my own parents.  But you have to think - if someone who was not his Grandmother was acting this way, would you allow them in his life, to this degree?  You are the gatekeeper to the influences in his life, especially at this age.  Your son deserves safe and healthy limits.  He deserves love that is selfless and constructive, not selfish and destructive.  And so do you - and so does your wife!

As a child of parents who have often been abusive and manipulative, I can understand your wife's reluctance to blow the situation wide open.  The tendency to think we have it under control (when you yourself said, she obviously does not, and is continually hurt instead) is common amongst children raised with parents who operate this way.  As hard as it may be to face, I think you need to seek counseling for yourself and your wife.  She is stuck in a hurtful pattern with her mother that she has probably been in all her life, and it takes alot of courage to break out of business as usual.  But it is the only way to chart a new course for your family's future. 

Your MIL's behavior is far beyond a mere annoyance or squabble over too many toys.  It is toxic to your family in many ways. With my own parents, I try to limit their involvement to supervised visits, spaced a few weeks apart, with little or no contact in between.  Toys, screen time, etc. are still a battle (even with a 10 month old!).  

I know it sounds like a messed up Grandma in his life is still better than no Grandma, but her love for the child hardly sounds pure and respectful.  It sounds downright manipulative and possessive.  And your son doesn't need love like that! (in my own opinion, which I apologize if you find it out of line)

[thermo]

Update: Grandma medicates our son without consulting us

We were traveling together - a number of family members. Our son had been car-sick on a very bumpy road a few days earlier. Without asking either of his parents - notwithstanding that we were there - grandma gave him anti-nausea medication in anticipation of a drive we were going to be taking. Our son ended up passing out and slept for the drive. Grandma was so proud of the wonderful work she had done.

[mamazee]

"You've now drugged our child, and therefore you won't see him again." I've had to do this kind of thing in my family. It can be done. It's very effective.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by mamazee 

"You've now drugged our child, and therefore you won't see him again." I've had to do this kind of thing in my family. It can be done. It's very effective.

I agree. I had to have a "no unsupervised visits" rule with one of my children's grandparents, too.

[LynnS6]

Your MIL has no respect for your boundaries and she's teaching your son that it's OK for her not to respect anyone's boundaries.

The reason your wife can't deal with her mother is because her mother has been doing this to her for all of her life. She probably doesn't have the skills.

You and your wife need counseling ASAP. Go yourself if your wife won't. It's gone beyond "she spoils him" to "she's potentially really dangerous". You're going to have to figure out how to prevent your MIL from being alone with him until he's old enough to fend for himself (16?) and to help your wife figure out how unsound this is. Until then, nothing will change.

Delete Skype from the computer. That is something you can control. Talk on the phone once a month.