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Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge? - Page 6

post #101 of 345

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post


But that's the subject of another thread.  :)

 



As is whether or not it is morally bankrupt to spend $350 on a bottle of wine.  

post #102 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


I agree that there are assumptions that fly in both directions. I also agree that being rich and poor are different. The main difference, and the difference that I have the biggest problem with, is that the rich have power, and the ability to meaningfully lobby the government. The poor don't in many ways, and are underrepresented in government. Which is a BIG problem, especially since the poor carry the higher tax burdens, have less access to medical care, less access to education, less access to adequate housing, etc, and the poor income brackets are growing in size. The rich are getting richer, and are doing everything they can to keep the poor people poor. American Dream my ass. It's quickly disappearing.


Which is why I'm constantly flabbergasted that people vote against their own interests.  But that's the subject of another thread.  :)

 


I know. I think it's because people believe the BS that is spun by the conservative party (I'm progressive, I know that most of the very wealthy are not, which probably means I shouldn't post that here where I'm already not supposed to post, since I do not meet the income requirement).
post #103 of 345

This post makes me want to cry. :(

It makes me feel sick thinking of people spending that much on a bottle of wine or a bunch of money on a tiny bit of food when people are starving around the world.  It just doesn't make sense that people have HUGE houses for status but people are dying from poor drinking water and starvation.  I bet those children who are picking eggshells from garbage cans to lick would run through a restaurant and devour whatever they could and not care what fork to eat with or caring what others thought about how they acted.

I am not perfect by any means of course.  I buy things and wonder if it is necessary.  But my gosh!  What a waste. :(

post #104 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

 

 



As is whether or not it is morally bankrupt to spend $350 on a bottle of wine.  

See, I have problems with the morality part of it, as I think morality is a bit more complex.  For me personally, it would be morally wrong to purchase high end items (on the assumption that I could afford it) while at the same time spitting in the general direction of those with less resources by (a) not caring; and (b) not doing my part to alleviate the problems of poverty.  So where does it stop?  I pay a $100 bucks for a pair of shoes and someone else pays $5.  Does that make me morally bankrupt?  I don't think the morality of the price of consumer goods really addresses the issue.  The price of gas rises and falls.  Do people who continue to subscribe to car ownership buy into a morally bankrupt idea?  

 

My main gripe is that when I say that I support the causes and plights of poor people, I'm called a socialist and marxist.  I'm told that I'm unpatriotic and that I don't care about America.  This is the culture in America, people, and this is why I'm frustrated that people believe people in elected positions who say that people who care about income equality and all the trappings are socialists, communists, you name it.  Argue about the morality of coach handbags and the cost of wine all you want.  Those aren't the real issues.
 

 

post #105 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post

See, I have problems with the morality part of it, as I think morality is a bit more complex.  For me personally, it would be morally wrong to purchase high end items (on the assumption that I could afford it) while at the same time spitting in the general direction of those with less resources by (a) not caring; and (b) not doing my part to alleviate the problems of poverty.  So where does it stop?  I pay a $100 bucks for a pair of shoes and someone else pays $5.  Does that make me morally bankrupt?  I don't think the morality of the price of consumer goods really addresses the issue.  The price of gas rises and falls.  Do people who continue to subscribe to car ownership buy into a morally bankrupt idea?  

 

My main gripe is that when I say that I support the causes and plights of poor people, I'm called a socialist and marxist.  I'm told that I'm unpatriotic and that I don't care about America.  This is the culture in America, people, and this is why I'm frustrated that people believe people in elected positions who say that people who care about income equality and all the trappings are socialists, communists, you name it.  Argue about the morality of coach handbags and the cost of wine all you want.  Those aren't the real issues.
 

 


I agree, those are not the real issues. But that those points came up is a pretty good illustration of this point:

 

Quote:

I don't think "discrimination" is the right word.  I'm not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, but I think probably what she meant is that there are assumptions and attitudes flying in both directions.  For example, if you're poor, you're probably virtuous, if you're not poor, you possess neither compassion, empathy or any other positive human quality average masses possess. 

 

I see it here all the time at MDC:  self-congradulatory posts for not being like "them"...those people with fancy cars and fancy trips and disposable income. 

 

 

 

post #106 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

That's defecting from what's going on here.  It really doesn't matter what goes on elsewhere on this board.  But I will go ahead and say I see a difference.  I've only seen those threads in the Frugality and Fiance forum, and they're usually about support due to being broke not how to parent their children differently. Also, I've never seen an income requirement on those or non-low income members specifically excluded.  Actually I've seen non-low income members welcomed when they post with support and ideas one of whom has posted here. 

 

 

edited for typo

I agree with this completely. What has me so hot under the collar is that specifically because I am low income, I supposedly have nothing to offer the OP. In actuality, I feel I had some pretty good points (course I would think that but...2whistle.gif) because I am low income but grew up in the income bracket the OP wanted opinions from. I could tell her my experiences going from wanting nothing because I had it all to being completely broke and trying to scrape by month to month. And honestly, I've loved seeing high income posters on the low income support threads. Lets me know that you can make it and there can be light at the end of the tunnel. Keeps some hope alive that things will change. 
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

I know there are a lot of tensions in this thread, but the restaurant talk reminded me of something that I did once... hahaha, fresh out of college went to a way fancier restaurant than I was accustomed to with some folks who were more regular to that level of eating out... ordered sweetbreads in an appetizer, hahaha I thought they were literally some sweet bread/rolls with some savory thing going on....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread

 

I was practically veg at the time and someone there knew that and mentioned something to me, like oh, i thought you were vegetarian... we called the waiter back. No one was rude about it, although I felt really silly....

 

I think the more experiences we give our kids, the more they are going to pick up things here and there. Which goes for anyone... obviously some experiences are cost prohibitive, but I think there are a lot of ways to get a wide range of activities/culture/exposure, etc. 

 

When in doubt... don't try something off the menu you aren't sure about. If it's in another language, probably they will tell you the specials in English. Or I'll have what that lady over there is having!! Some street smarts/observation can help anyone in a situation they are not familiar with.

 biglaugh.gifI remember when my husband was in culinary school and they had offal week. He was talking about sweetbreads at home and I thought those sounded nice, I wouldn't mind having sweetbreads, thinking exactly what you thought. Yeah...the look on my face when he told me what they actually are was apparently hilarious and sent him into laughter fits. I feel for ya!! 
 

 

 

post #107 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post


Which is why I'm constantly flabbergasted that people vote against their own interests.  



My husband's theory is that it's because they think one day they'll be rich too.

post #108 of 345

Thing is... The folks who CAN afford to toss $350 for a bottle of wine more often than not are also quite philanthropic. Look at Bill and Melinda Gates. Or the late Steve Jobs. They can afford to live large, but they also put money where it's needed. I see nothing wrong with spending large when you've worked hard for it. AND then also give where needed. And most do.

 

As I said - I'm not in that "class" by any stretch, But I can see at least one of my kids spending time with those who are. And I think it's important for him to know how to behave appropriately, to have the cultural knowledge to hold an intelligent conversation, etc.

 

As for the income range OP specified? Big deal. Those who are there likely know better what flies those who aren't.

post #109 of 345

I really didn't mean to start an argument about whether there is a moral issue about spending that kind of money on wine.  Dh and I would never do that because our dream is to get back to having two cars again and 350 would be enough for a whole months car payment.  But there are probably a lot of people out there who would think that we don't each need a car and question the morality of us spending on that.  I don't think two cars is frivolous but I do have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac notebook and that's pretty hard to justify.

 

Gotta say that I picture these meanies at the Met as being played by the cast of Downton Abby. 

post #110 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

I really didn't mean to start an argument about whether there is a moral issue about spending that kind of money on wine.  Dh and I would never do that because our dream is to get back to having two cars again and 350 would be enough for a whole months car payment.  But there are probably a lot of people out there who would think that we don't each need a car and question the morality of us spending on that.  I don't think two cars is frivolous but I do have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac notebook and that's pretty hard to justify.

 

Gotta say that I picture these meanies at the Met as being played by the cast of Downton Abby. 



And maybe that's the point - everyone has their own priorities. The iStuff is for some, not for others. And there is NOTHING wrong with that! Yep. I have spent close to $350 for a bottle of wine. When my (now) ex got his PhD, I took him out for a really pricey dinner - $400 for the two of us, $300 of which was for the wine. And ya know... I saved for that dinner over 5+ years. I refuse to feel guilty for that, It was a big occasion - one I felt worthy of celebrating in a big way. Not everyone's choice, and THAT is okay, too.

 

Maybe if we all spent less time judging others for their choices and more time focusing on our own lives, the world would be a better place.

post #111 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

As for the income range OP specified? Big deal. Those who are there likely know better what flies those who aren't.


Well at least you're honest not to mention unapologetic about your prejudice.

 

post #112 of 345

Somehow Sergey Brin and Stever Jobs figured it all out without tips from their parents.

post #113 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

Thing is... The folks who CAN afford to toss $350 for a bottle of wine more often than not are also quite philanthropic. Look at Bill and Melinda Gates. Or the late Steve Jobs. They can afford to live large, but they also put money where it's needed. I see nothing wrong with spending large when you've worked hard for it. AND then also give where needed. And most do.

 

As I said - I'm not in that "class" by any stretch, But I can see at least one of my kids spending time with those who are. And I think it's important for him to know how to behave appropriately, to have the cultural knowledge to hold an intelligent conversation, etc.

 

As for the income range OP specified? Big deal. Those who are there likely know better what flies those who aren't.



wow.

 

post #114 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

Gotta say that I picture these meanies at the Met as being played by the cast of Downton Abby. 



Oooh, Downton Abby is my guilty pleasure.  They're much cooler than meanies at the Met.  The youngest ran off with the chauffeur!

post #115 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post


Well at least you're honest not to mention unapologetic about your prejudice.

 



Yep - *I* am.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater View Post



wow.

 


Why the wow? That I want my child to be able to hold his own among the people who will be able to fund his dreams? Sorry, but I suspect that folks who don't make the big bucks aren't going to be commissioning symphonies any time soon. So yeah - he needs to know how to schmooze. Like it or not. that's kind of known as the reality of life.

 

post #116 of 345


Quote:

Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

Yep - *I* am.
 



Am I to assume your emphasized "*I*" is some thinly veiled attempt to imply I'm prejudice? I have nothing against the wealthy, and you won't find anything I've said here that indicates otherwise.  Pointing out individual's prejudice does not make one prejudice.

post #117 of 345

To each there own.  I got where I'm at mostly by hard work and knowing the right people.  The right people wouldn't be caught dead wasting money on thing that are not important.  Pretty sure that's how they got where they are.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post



Yep - *I* am.


Why the wow? That I want my child to be able to hold his own among the people who will be able to fund his dreams? Sorry, but I suspect that folks who don't make the big bucks aren't going to be commissioning symphonies any time soon. So yeah - he needs to know how to schmooze. Like it or not. that's kind of known as the reality of life.

 



 

post #118 of 345

Most of my family is upper middle class if not upper class. Some own trading firms, are VP's at the merk- own golf courses etc.

I am a poor single mom who cleans houses for a living.

I would love for my kids to have the opportunities that my cousins kids have.... but I think my kids are learning valuable lessons down here in the lower income with me. They appreciate what they have.  My parents see to it that they know how to eat at a table.... we had candle lit dinners as a child- a housekeeper, and a very comfortable life most of the time.  My dad was the President of a firm.

he chaired  many community organizations etc.

 

I don't like reading this thread. At all. Just thought I would chime in- not all of the poor people started out that way- or have no need to know those things either.

I for one am dating a man who would be considered upper middle class. We got to wineries  and when I don't know what to do I just ask him.  When we go to dinner and I am concerned about what to order I ask the waiter for a suggestion.  When we tried to eat this fancy sushi one time- on our first date and I could not figure out how to get it into my mouth without a fork I made a joke of it.

 

I think confidence is key.  And you can teach that in any income bracket. If you teach your kids that they matter regardless of the amt of money their parents or they make and they should be proud of who they are and where they come from- I think they will be able to handle most situations well.... even if they have to wing it- it won't crush them to be in an awkward situation- they will be able to brush it off- or just be confident and ask for help.

 

 

 

post #119 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

You have me rolling!


Which part? Just so we can have a good laugh together. ;)

 

 

post #120 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

 

As I said - I'm not in that "class" by any stretch, But I can see at least one of my kids spending time with those who are. And I think it's important for him to know how to behave appropriately, to have the cultural knowledge to hold an intelligent conversation, etc.

 


My experience is totally anecdotal but I think it is somewhat on point.  I went from West Virginia back-sticks to the NYC art world in a flash.  My survival (and the survival of my colleagues) depended greatly on the generosity and support of monied individuals.  In retrospect, it wasn't about intelligence or cultural knowledge, etc.  It was about good salesmanship.  The intelligence and cultural knowledge were already there.  We were artists, mind you.  LOL.  In order to survive, however, the most awesome artist needs the ability to sell his/her goods.  He/she needs to convince others that they absolutely need what you are offering.  You need to convince others that your work is important and valid...that it benefits them personally and society at large.  

 

There will be times when the random prodigy comes along and the savvy sponsor will recognize the talent and underwrite it.  For most of us, though, it's all about sales.  You can talk the talk but  there is a certain level of sales (whether likable or not) that is involved in selling what some consider ideas, trends, cultural markers.  Look, I spent much of my life as a visual/theatre artist and then I became a lawyer.  Basically, in both in arenas, I sell ideas, thoughts, knowledge.  I love what I do but at the end of the day I think it's all a scam.  A scam because I don't think what I do justifies the price that people pay for what I do.  I still have a lot of old fashioned ideas about "work" means.  To me, my thoughts aren't work, but there are people out there that pay a premium for me to think.  It's so messed up.  

 

But it all boils down to sales, in my opinion.  All the good sales people I've ever met have been "jacks of all trades" and have managed to sweet talk me into something I didn't know I wanted or needed.  All the tony people of the world without sales ability are just hangers-on, groupies, etc.  They want to be there, but they have nothing to offer.

 

Sorry guys, saying all this in love and laughter and complete self-deprecation.    goodvibes.gif

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