or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge? - Page 10

post #181 of 345

Can someone PLEASE tell me what working class is, and why it's so different than what we're talking about here? The  OP didn't specify that only those who are independently wealthy need reply. My dad would have met her qualifications for answering this thread, and like many of you, wouldn't have had much to say about whether the kids should know their wines (he didn't), play cricket or rugby or do crew (none of the above), or speak a foreign language (he doesn't). So he made the income we're talking about, but he had a JOB. He WORKED. We weren't poor, so do we not qualify to be working class? We certainly don't qualify to be wealthy...

post #182 of 345

I agree mostly with Jolly.  I live in a high COL area of the country and we live comfortably here.  We also have "old" middle class cars, and live in a "middle class" neighborhood, in a 4 BR house with about 2200 sf, which is way smaller than all the McMansions around us.  We spend a LOT of money on music education, because that is important to us (we just estimated how much and it is a lot); our kids attend public schools and are doing fine.

 

The things that are important to me have to do with feeling "comfortable" wherever you are--not to be intimidated.  Part of my motivation for buying this house was for my dad not to be intimidated here--because he is quite intimidated by "McMansions."  (2nd story entryways, etc.).  But I want my children to be able to visit a friend at their "country manor" (good friends) or at their 2 br apt. (good friends as well).  I want my kids to be able to change their tire, balance their checkbook, sew a straight seam with a sewing machine, sew on a button, use a drill, cook 5 kinds of dinner by the time they leave home, budget their money, and learn to save up for something big.  I insisted I would NOT buy American Girl dolls, FE, but my children saved their little allowances for several months and were able to save up for beautiful dolls.  They value them so much.  I want my kids to learn CPR and to learn about true poverty (like someone else said).  Our family does not drink any alcohol for religious reasons, so they will not develop "refined" taste in coffee or wines, but I would always probably recommend the "house" wine or ask the server for a recommendation.

 

We would like to travel a bit, hopefully to Australia and Europe (separate trips), but it is expensive and many years in the future, so this year we will drive to Colorado and camp with my family.

 

We highly value learning, and we always want to retain that excitement and curiosity in our children.  We also have 5 children, so that in and of itself is a bigger commitment of resources.  :)  We want our children to be able to support themselves and not rely on anyone else financially, even the girls.  (Just have to say it...  a couple of my sisters didn't get that message growing up even though I was in the same family as them...).
 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post

I'm middle middle class but I'm actually more worried about my kids learning things they might miss from living a comfortable lifestyle then in wanting them to learn the social niceties of being an upper income earner.

 

I worry that if I pay for my kids college they won't value it as much and work as hard (I payed my own way and am still working on the loans, but I knew the cost and value of what I was paying for each semester as I payed my tuition).

My kids don't see us making a lot of sacrifices to meet our budget and I wonder if they appreciate the value of an economical menu, few extras, ect. and if they ever do need to cut back to make ends meet will they know how to do it having never seen it.

 

I guess I worry more about them learning the value of hard work, how to make frugal decisions, how to live on a budget and those sorts of things.



 

post #183 of 345

working class- generally refers to blue collar workers.

post #184 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyGG View Post

My son is interested in languages so he takes Mandarin lessons. I'm often looked at like I have two heads when I talk about these things. It's not because I'm sitting in the wrong economic class it's because I'm sitting with people who I have nothing in common with and don't share interests with.
Actually, Mandarin lessons for kids is a pretty hot thing among parents with, yes, high incomes.... it's even trickling down to the middle class. Your son is actually trendy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

50k a year isn't much, and people making $50k are most certainly poor in some parts of the country.

Okay... so then what do you call the people making 25K a year and living in your city? Those would probably be the ones using daycare with indoor chickens and sharing a bedroom with their kids and perhaps another couple of relatives, just in case you can't picture them.
post #185 of 345

This is a very interesting thread.  I think I tend to dilude myself into thinking that class doesn't matter anymore.  I guess I am wrong.

 

While I meet OPs "cut-off", the things that I hope to teach DS have nothing to do with income level and the circles he will or may roll in some day.  They are the things that make you successful no matter what life has in store.

 

- a hard work ethic

- respect for others, no matter who they are or what they do

- being thankful for what you have and finding the joy in every day life

- being a good listener and asking thoughtful questions

- have a positive outlook on life

 

Honestly I think if DS has these skills, his life will be "successful" in all the ways that matter, no matter his income bracket or that of those he socializes with.  This is how I was raised, and it was confirmed for me by an experience I had in university.

 

I had a classmate who's family has more money than probably all the posters on this thread combined, without exageration.  We went to school together for 3 years and I had no idea he was wealthy.  He was just "S".  "S" is one of the greatest people I'd ever met.  He was smart, thoughtful, a gentleman, fun to be around.  He worked hard in school, but was always up for a beer at the pub too.  He's one of those people you just instantly like. He is a loving husband to his wife and dad to his kids.  His family is his life.  He wore regular clothes and drove a regular car. I didn't even know about his family's "status" until we ended up working at the same firm together after school, and then only because a co-worker informed me of "who he is". 

 

What I see is that he was raised with the values that I listed above and I know that he will earn his success and not have it handed to him on a silver platter even though his parents could have ensured he would never have to work.  He just wasn't raised that way.  And "S" would have been successful with those skills even without his great advantage of having parents who could help him start out without debt, etc. 

post #186 of 345


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



50k a year isn't much, and people making $50k are most certainly poor in some parts of the country. I make $48k/year, and my ds and I would not make it if it weren't for child support. Literally. We could not make it. Not in my city. My rent is $1500/mo (which considering ALL of my utilities are included, I have a washer and dryer and dishwasher in the unit, most places you have to use coin operated laundry, I have a GREAT deal on a sweet place). Daycare? $1400/mo. and its the cheapest option that doesn't have chickens running around in the kitchen (yes, literally, I looked).

 

 

I live in Los Angeles, CA and I have about $10,000 a year coming in for my daughter and I.  Me and just about everyone I know could do pretty darn ok on $50k a year...especially compared to how we are living now.  50k might not be much by American standards (I have no idea really)...but I don't consider it even close to "poor".

 

 

(I realize this isn't the point to the thread, and sorry for that.  I just couldn't help but say something).

post #187 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

 

Realistically, though, it is much easier if you are dealing with the same currency as your buyers. Playing the naif only works if you're young and cute. Of course being a good sales person is important. And part of that is being on the same playing field, being able to talk about things your buyer understands and is interested in. I think you'll agree with that. 



I don't think that's true at all. Sales ability, ime, has very little to do with one's playing field. I've seen salespeople with blue collar backgrounds who could sell anything to anyone. I've seen "upper crust" people attempt sales to their own class, with laughable results. I'm working class, edging into middle class (my own family background is blue collar, and my own work background is mostly what used to be called "pink collar", although I haven't heard the term in a long time...clerical, mostly...operations and accounting, with some reception thrown into the mix, but dh is solidly middle class, with a white collar/professional background). I have no sales ability whatsoever. My mom, who grew up in a solidly middle-class family (but with pretensions - my maternal grandmother had a fair bit in common with Hyacinth from Keeping Up Appearances), and worked her way back "up" into something approaching upper middle class, has no sales ability. My ex-husband, and his father, whose backgrounds blue collar, alternating with unemployed poverty, could sell anything to anyone.

 

The natural sales people don't need to be on the same playing field, because they're generally very good at managing chit chat, by learning tidbits about whatever they may need to sell to the people they want to sell to. They don't have to learn it on a lifestyle level, or down in the bone, because their innate "sales gift" just doesn't work that way.


Edited by Storm Bride - 2/21/12 at 4:39pm
post #188 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

Okay... so then what do you call the people making 25K a year and living in your city? Those would probably be the ones using daycare with indoor chickens and sharing a bedroom with their kids and perhaps another couple of relatives, just in case you can't picture them.


I'm sorry, but I have to defend Super-Single-Mama here because I know exactly what she is talking (she used to live in NYC, where I currently reside) and I can say with confidence that an income of $50k here with a family is really pushing the limits.  I know a little about DC and its environs so I can speak with confidence about that area too.  I don't care if you're homeschooling, growing chickens on your balcony or are television-free, 50K here is BARELY making it.  I know because my brother lived in Queens with four kids and it was a complete struggle on his salary.  Food overall is cheaper (in my experience) but rents and cost of housing are insane.

 

FYI:  DH and I make a salary that qualifies us for the so-called 25% in this country (in terms of averages), yet, we live in a one bedroom apartment because (a) we have other priorities for the way we spend our money; and (b) it is the norm here in the city to live in close quarters.  I have a neighbor (family of six) next door who lives in a two-bedroom apartment.  No big deal.  Everyone here does this sort of thing.  Bedrooms, thus, aren't a good marker.  I think it is easy to speak in terms of McMansions from a suburban point of view, but that discounts the millions of people of don't live in suburbia.  

 

People making half of $50k in my town (with a family) ARE probably counting on other resources for survival:  family living arrangements; pooling of resources; public assistance.  Those with families who don't have these resources are doing without (and I don't mean deciding whether or not to have cable or Game Boy, I mean doing without).  

 

The reason I say this is that I know that Super-Single comes from the same background and demographic (in terms of city life) as myself.  I think it goes to OP's original post and requirement of $100k plus people:  the income is insignificant in terms of riches or upper society where I live.  


Edited by CatsCradle - 2/21/12 at 4:32pm
post #189 of 345

OP - maybe it would help to understand what you are wanting them to be prepared for? For a profession or for social reasons? I guess that's why I'm so confused. Art history is well covered in college. Surely as adults they will mingle with people from many backgrounds and there are so many valuable, esteemed professions that require zero knowledge of a proper table setting. What scenarios are you envisioning? 

 

My ds studied English and philosophy and works in theatre and has many friends from what would be called "old money". He or his friends very rarely spout Beckett or Kant at any dinner table. I work with mostly wealthy people but my profession is also dominated by liberals. So in my circle it is more impressive to know about, say, sustainability practices or small villages in Oaxaca than it is to know wine. I would say as one of the few people at my company coming from a poor family, what I notice I lack most is travel experience. 

 

So as I said, I think a love of art, music, and multiculturalism in the home is the most beneficial. And manners and etiquette. 

post #190 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

A lot of people seem to be taking this really personally... do you not think that there is a certain body of cultural knowledge that upper and upper-middle class people generally learn while people in other classes often don't? Really, each social class has its own sphere of cultural knowledge, but if you're interested in becoming upper-middle class then it helps to know that cultural currency. Some of it is as simple as knowing how to navigate going to college or grad school, or what to wear to an interview, or how and when to write a thank you letter. Part of it is feeling comfortable at cocktail or dinner parties, and most people feel more comfortable when they know something about the topics being discussed and understand some of the social graces and manners expected (Which fork do you use? What is the 4:20 position? Where should you leave your napkin when you're finished?). No one will hunt you down if you make a faux pas, but it still feels uncomfortable, and I'm not seeing why it's wrong to acknowledge that. Making social connections is important for many careers, whether we like to think it is or not.
A lot of this stuff has more to do with the person than their cultural milieu. DS1 will be comfortable almost anywhere he's dropped and has the social intelligence to navigate unfamiliar situations with grace. He probably learned fewer of the social niceties as he was growing up than I did, and he was certainly in a lower financial bracket. But, he slid into the atmosphere of his high school peers (mostly upper middle class, and many making well into the six figures, and having the asset base that results from making such money for a couple of decades) with little or no effort. I went to the same school, and I never fit in at all. But, I wouldn't have fit into a working class school any better than I did in the one I attended. And, I'll never be comfortable at a cocktail or dinner party, unless I know pretty well everyone there. It has nothing to do with my class.
Of course everyone wants their kids to be good, kind, caring people. That's a given.
Maybe in your world. I don't think it's a given at all. It might be a given on MDC, but it's not a given, in general. Lots of people want their kids to grow up "tough", and if tough means bullying, they're okay with that. To be fair, though, this trancends class issues. When I was younger, I thought it was only teh upper classes that taught their kids to look down on others, but I did eventually realized I just noticed it more, because those were the ones who targeted me.
And it really isn't about money - it's about class, and as another poster said before, they're different things but often related. The U.S. is widely seen as having more class mobility than most other countries but it's still not always easy to change classes, in part because of not having the cultural capital.
In this particular thread, at least, "class" seems to be definted as income level.


 

post #191 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by swd12422 View Post

Can someone PLEASE tell me what working class is, and why it's so different than what we're talking about here? The  OP didn't specify that only those who are independently wealthy need reply. My dad would have met her qualifications for answering this thread, and like many of you, wouldn't have had much to say about whether the kids should know their wines (he didn't), play cricket or rugby or do crew (none of the above), or speak a foreign language (he doesn't). So he made the income we're talking about, but he had a JOB. He WORKED. We weren't poor, so do we not qualify to be working class? We certainly don't qualify to be wealthy...



The middle class works. "Working class" usually refers to lower income, and mostly blue collar, families. My dad was a furniture mover. I like "working class" better than saying I grew up "lower (or low) class', but I'm okay with that, too, if it clarifies things.

post #192 of 345

This is pretty much the American kind of wealth, isn't it?  

post #193 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post

Quote: Originally Posted by Dar Okay... so then what do you call the people making 25K a year and living in your city? Those would probably be the ones using daycare with indoor chickens and sharing a bedroom with their kids and perhaps another couple of relatives, just in case you can't picture them. I'm sorry, but I have to defend Super-Single-Mama here because I know exactly what she is talking (she used to live in NYC, where I currently reside) and I can say with confidence that an income of $50k here with a family is really pushing the limits. I know a little about DC and its environs so I can speak with confidence about that area too. I don't care if you're homeschooling, growing chickens on your balcony or are television-free, 50K here is BARELY making it. I know because my brother lived in Queens with four kids and it was a complete struggle on his salary. Food overall is cheaper (in my experience) but rents and cost of housing are insane. FYI: DH and I make a salary that qualifies us for the so-called 25% in this country (in terms of averages), yet, we live in a one bedroom apartment because (a) we have other priorities for the way we spend our money; and (b) it is the norm here in the city to live in close quarters. I have a neighbor (family of six) next door who lives in a two-bedroom apartment. No big deal. Everyone here does this sort of thing. Bedrooms, thus, aren't a good marker. I think it is easy to speak in terms of McMansions from a suburban point of view, but that discounts the millions of people of don't live in suburbia. People making half of $50k in my town (with a family) ARE probably counting on other resources for survival: family living arrangements; pooling of resources; public assistance. Those with families who don't have these resources are doing without (and I don't mean deciding whether or not to have cable or Game Boy, I mean doing without). The reason I say this is that I know that Super-Single comes from the same background and demographic (in terms of city life) as myself. I think it goes to OP's original post and requirement of $100k plus people: the income is insignificant in terms of riches or upper society where I live.

Thanks for backing me up. We survive, and have some extra - but that is because I have good benefits thru work, and because I get $500/ mo in child support, plus my ex pays for half daycare. If he didn't? Or it wasn't reliable? We'd be living with family, which we did for 3mo while I saved up for an apartment. And DC groceries are about 30% more than NYC groceries - no joke. It's tough. We don't eat out, I take lunch to work every day. We can afford to eat decently in part because DS eats breakfast and lunch at school. And, we live in a 1BR apartment. We share a room. My ds is going to get his own bed for the first time (at my house) in a few weeks. We don't have tons of space, but it helps that we are a family of 2. If I had another child it would be financially devastating.

We are doing OK - ds will not go without. But my income is supplemented by child support, without child support we'd be in BIG trouble, and would be quite dependent on family.

Oh yeah, and that daycare with chickens? It was $900/mo and no food was provided. To send lunches to school with my son, the way groceries are here, would put me at least at $1100/mo. Not only that, they didn't have space. They had a wait list.
post #194 of 345

this is so strange... my background is middle class, my friend[s too, and we all can speak at least one other language, been to many restaurants and eat and replicate the cooking at home, can talk about art, books, cinema, have traveled....im from south america, these things are pretty normal. has nothing to do with money. maybe the country i grew up in values culture more than the us exet for the wealthy...but doesn't have to do with money.

post #195 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionaryMom View Post



I GREW UP WORKING CLASS. I do know exactly what life looks like in a working class and a middle class family. I'm not making assumptions. Unless my family was wildly different (and we are Southern, which I realize also matters culturally), no one brought up Copernicus or the local Rembrandt exhibit at dinner - not at my house and not at the houses of my friends. We played backyard football, not lacrosse. Short of people who grew up in immigrant households, I don't think that learning a second language is a priority in many working-class households. The reason that I addressed my comments to upper-middle and upper class families specifically was because of a thread here about a year ago. A number of parents said that they don't feed their children things like lobster because they cannot really afford to eat it and don't want to give their children a taste for something out of range. Quite a few people said that thank-you cards were outdated and not something their friends did; also most people agreed that teaching things like how properly to spoon soup and use multiple forks were not useful lessons. Many an MDC-er "lol"ed at the notion of eating at "such fancy places." So, yes, if you're working class and do those things, by all means share, but the general consensus (on a thread that also went pages and pages and pages) was that most people do not need to teach their children such esoteric skills because they would be unlikely to use them.

I'm sure that there are some working-class parents who teach those things to their children, but I'm confident in saying that they aren't the majority - or even a sizable minority. My mother - who was young and single when I was born - insisted that I learn to play golf and tennis because her outsider view was that making important business deals happened after such sporty outings. She pushed very hard (and I listened) for me to take French in high school because she viewed it as a more sophisticated language choice than Spanish. Those lessons, along with a lifelong push for college & grad school and a keen understanding of how professional women should present themselves, were actually pretty odd where I grew up. Other people went to college, of course, but their parents hadn't pushed it the way my mother did. No one played golf (no courses around). People didn't drink wine (strictly a beer and tequila kind of place). They didn't go to art museums. I'm not making up the differences that I can see between my childhood and my adulthood. 

I grew up well under poverty level until I was ten then working class after my mom married, a level I am still at now. I don't know what it is like growing up in the south but the way you grew up and the way I grew up sound very different because I did have a lot of opportunity, we did a lot of enriching things, attended classes and private music lessons, and I was surrounded by the people who saw college as the norm.
post #196 of 345
I grew up lower-middle class or working class (I don't know really, I know we were on welfare for a while and money was always tight but I wouldn't have called myself poor) and had many friends in the same income bracket or lower. We played tennis and learned instruments (public school). We went to museums (free days & library passes). I learned 3 foreign languages and most of my friends learned at least 1 besides English (public school). Our parents drank wine (yes, usually cheap, and yes, beer, too, but they would appreciate a good wine). We wrote and received thank you cards. We were expected to use proper manners and always sit up straight. We went to college (on scholarships/financial aid). We could carry on an educated conversation. These things are about interests & ideals, not money. Sure, money helps meet those ideals more easily, but those of us who never make it to the upper middle class aren't all sitting around on our torn-up couches drinking beer and blubbering on about nothing while our uneducated, impolite, never-set-foot-in-a-museum kids are using spoons instead of forks and wiping their dirty hands on their clothes.
post #197 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Thanks for backing me up. We survive, and have some extra - but that is because I have good benefits thru work, and because I get $500/ mo in child support, plus my ex pays for half daycare..

The fact that you see 50K as poor in your city (also where my daughter lives, btw) I think demonstrates one of the problems with this conversation. One in five households in DC live below the federal poverty line - about 20K a year for a family of 4. Last semester, my daughter worked for an after school program with kids from some of those families. That's poor. CrazyCatLady and her daughter are poor.
post #198 of 345


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dar View Post

Statistically speaking, the more money you make and the more education you have, the more likely your child is to go to college, and the more likely he is to go to a selective or highly selective university. I attend one of the top 20 universities in the U.S. as a grad student, and less than 5% of our undergrads even qualify for Pell grants - which families are eligible for if they make up to 50K a year, in some cases, so not really even poor. Going to college - again, especially a selective college, more so than a community of state college - takes know-how and time, and it also takes seeing going to college as an option.... which many families still don't.


I'm guessing the reason the percentage of people that qualify for a Pell grant is low at your school is because people who qualify for a Pell grant probably wouldn't be too interested in a private university that costs over $40,000 a year. There's a pretty low cap on Pell grants. One wouldn't even put a dent in that tuition. 

 

I certainly couldn't have afforded a school like that, but I don't think that's a bad thing.  I went to a community college for two years and then transferred to a highly selective public university, or in your words a "state school," which is routinely ranked as one of the top public universities in the country (think public ivy).  I got a Pell grant and other aid.  It was by far a more sensible decision than if I had tried to go to the highly selective private university down the road that would have cost ten times as much. Private universities are not better or more selective.

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

I live in the city of St. Louis.I know poor people - really poor, not just grad student poor like me. Multigenerationally poor... and generally no, they don't travel internationally, or visit art museums, or speak a foreign language (unless their parents are immigrants). How would they be able to do those things? Those things take time, money, and knowledge, and really, why would they be relevant? Generally they aren't, especially when it's hard enough to ensure that kids are well-fed, clean, safe, doing well in school, etc.

 

I'm truly dumbfounded.  I'll give you the international travel because that takes money, but public museums usually don't require admission, and it doesn't take any special knowledge to appreciate art.  And learning Spanish at least on a conversational level could be done for free and in many parts of the country could prove invaluable.  And sometimes those not in the upper class or upper middle class like to do things just to enrich their lives. 

 

I'm wondering if we substituted race for class if people would still think it acceptable to make these kinds of generalizations. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

As far as manners, there are different manners for different social settings. Do your kids know an oyster fork from a fish fork from a salad fork? Have they ever needed to? Not that I think it's something everyone should go right out and teach their kids - one can always watch someone else, and failing that, outside to inside is a good general rule- but it's an example of manners that generally aren't relevant unless you're of a certain class.

 

Good table manners and basic etiquette are relevant to people outside the upper class. Non-upper class people might actually be invited to functions where knowing a formal place setting or at least how to pass as you mentioned might come in handy.  Or if they're like my very traditional southern MIL, they might actually have this stuff and break it out on special occasions.


Edited by AbbyGrant - 2/21/12 at 7:44pm
post #199 of 345

Allright nobody answered my question but here's my 2 cents.

 

I was born into a wealthy family in Switzerland, I attended a public school which I suppose they are entirely different from the ones in the States or here in Australia for that matter, we were wealthy, I grew up multilingual not really because Switzerland is a multilingual country, but because my parents are from different countries ( different languages culture, etc). I was rich growing up really, my mother (Lebanese born in Mexico) also belongs to a wealthy family. I do specify the countries in which I grew up and frequented because being "rich" in a certain place is different from another. 

 

When I moved to Australia, I was not receiving any help from my family, my parents thought it was important from me to do everything on my own,so yes I was poor, or lower class, and yes being lower class, after I had a my DD1 still I was "lower" class, I was a single, young and a working mom. When I was struggling financially my DD was very young but I seriously doubt that I would've given a thought on enrolling my DD on an expensive sport or telling her to learn another language because its classier than the other ( I actually think it's ridiculous), just to fit in with the rest of my family. 

 

Right now, I will say yes we are wealthy, not wealthy as I was growing up or how wealthy my DH was growing up for that matter, but we have more than enough. My husband who is probably the wealthiest person I've known ( well his parents at least) would rather eat a cheeseburger and drink beer ( oh because beer is soo low class) and walk around in jeans and sneakers all the time , oh and he is monolingual aswell. 

post #200 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Thanks for backing me up. We survive, and have some extra - but that is because I have good benefits thru work, and because I get $500/ mo in child support, plus my ex pays for half daycare..

The fact that you see 50K as poor in your city (also where my daughter lives, btw) I think demonstrates one of the problems with this conversation. One in five households in DC live below the federal poverty line - about 20K a year for a family of 4. Last semester, my daughter worked for an after school program with kids from some of those families. That's poor. CrazyCatLady and her daughter are poor.

My ds and I are FAR from being middle class. Yes, there are MANY that have much LESS than I do. I realize how fortunate I am that I have this salary (I have a law degree, so I do have some upward mobility as well). I also know that on my salary, my reality is that I would not be able to afford daycare and an apartment. Without my ex's reliable child support, we would be largely dependent on family (meaning we would live with family rent free - not that they would pay for everything). That's MY reality. If you want to come pay my bills, and live in my reality for a year, and then tell me what I'm doing wrong, be my guest.

It is important to note that I'm also in that somewhat awkward income bracket where I do not qualify for any assistance whatsoever, and have to pay nearly the max on any sliding scale fees. Without including child support (since it is not considered income). Again, I realize that there are people with less. I'm just sharing my reality, and if I am so tight (on what you say should be plenty) then I don't know how anyone manages on 10k per year. I don't think it's possible.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge?