Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge? - Page 3

[*bejeweled*]

So Bourgeoise.

I can't believe this was posted. Much less on MDC!

The OP feels like an 'outsider', so she wants to make sure her DC are 'insiders'.

Let your kids BE and provide them with opportunities to have great experiences and gain empathy for others less fortunate.

Money does not equal CLASS.
Edited by *bejeweled* - 2/20/12 at 7:27am

[mtiger]

I haven't read more than the first few responses... I grew up in the SES that OP mentions, but am not there now. It is what it is. In a lot of ways, kind of the best of both worlds. Both places have their positives and negatives, and things that kids can - and probably should - learn from. My kids well know the value of a dollar, how hard it is to earn, the value of hard work (in terms of money and self-satisfaction), etc. However... They also appreciate good literature, music of all sorts (from grunge to classical), good food (comfort and high-flight), etc. They are able to hold their own in all areas of life, from down on the farm to black tie affairs. My 20yo texted me yesterday, all excited because he scored free tickets to Abduction from the Seraglio. He doesn't have a lot of more formal attire, but he has a suit that fits, as well as a tux - and knows when each is more appropriate than jeans/tee or khakis/collared shirt.

Yes - those things ARE important in today's world. IMO.

I've known millionaires who were the most uneducated boobs I've ever met, and ditch diggers who could discuss Proust with a real understanding. I've also met the former who were just as comfortable shovelling manure, and the latter who didn't know that there are times ripped up jeans weren't appropriate. I'd take the literate ditch digger or the down and dirty millionaire any day. The other two? Eh, not so much.

[*bejeweled*]

This is so eloquent and heartfelt.

Originally Posted by MadTown16 

I grew up in a very wealthy family, and from the perspective of a now grown child of the 1%, I advise rethinking your priorities.  The valuable lessons that my parents taught me revolved around financial responsibility--Saving, charitable giving, the importance of work, and responsible use of money.  Most importantly, they taught me-through words and example- that wealth was a blessing to be thankful for.  That it should be used carefully and not needlesslt flaunted.  That it didn't make me better than anyone else.  

The specific examples you give-learning languages, polite manners, and understanding wine-do not seem like priorities that are strictly upper class.  Essentially, you value certain knowledge and hope your children do too.  That's a pretty universal parenting situation.  I would encourage you to approach learning those things like any other optional hobby, not as a checklist of things that they must learn because they're "upper class".  It will be ok if they don't know or care about those things as long as you teach them to pursue their interests/dreams and encourage them to educate themselves so they will be successful in what THEY want to do.  

For what it's worth, I was never specifically taught wealthy person skills-and I haven't once felt at a disadvantage.  My husband grew up in a very poor family and he has delt with new money-related situations with ease, despite his lack of experience.  

[Peony]

I was raised middle class, probably somewhat upper but money was something we didn't talk about and they were quite frugal. DH was raised definitely in a higher bracket then I was though and he does not know how to relate to people of a lower income. This is something that is a great bother to me. My job is working with families in poverty. I know I am lucky and I never forget that. Our income is solely our's, DH built a company barely out of his teens without having gone on to any college and it is highly successful today. By DH's client standards, we are considered poor, I guess most people would be to multi-millionaires! 

Being in a higher income bracket, I am grateful that we have options for our children. They go to a private school because that is what best fits DD1's learning style. We are able to provide her with all the private therapist she needs, severe dyslexia and some other issues. She loves sports so she does get to do the more expensive ones, competitive dance, snowboard team, etc... Other then that we don't do much differently. Well, we are able to have a full time nanny even though I only work part time, she helps drive to practices, that type of thing. We vacation only once a year and in FL. We are limited because we have 4 children, some that are still quite small. When they get older, I just see more sports in our future, not really learning about wine or foreign menus but that isn't how we are either. 

[Imakcerka]

I keep checking this thread... and it's making me rage.  I should probably step away from the internet now...

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I keep checking this thread... and it's making me rage.  I should probably step away from the internet now...

Why? Really, I ask sincerely - why is it so terrible for someone to ask what OP has asked? Some may not agree with it, others may. But what's so wrong with asking?

For the record - my kids actually do know what wine to pair with what and know the basics of a menu in a different language - because they both cook and like to know what tastes best with what, and what the real name for a dish might be. It's also a part of being educated. Don't see why that's such a horrid thing.

My opinion only.

[sewchris2642]

The best thing you can teach (and model) your children is how to be themselves and be comfortable with themselves.  Not having money doesn't mean not knowing the differences between wine or modern art from the Romantics.  Being financially poor doesn't translate into being culturally poor.  Nor does being financially well off mean that one is also culturally rich.  Teach your children manners (including the Golden Rule:  treat others as you wish to be treated), give them experiences (don't have the money for museums?  Get DVDs from the library and seek out quality videos online and on TV to watch), read a wide range of books, go to free/low cost lectures, plays, etc. at your local college or community playhouse, even high school.  Teach them to ask if they don't know.  Pretending to know is more obnoxious (and rude) than admitting that you don't know. 

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

-- Yes, when I had that Italian restaurant experience, I was way out of my depth. I was 22 and just out of graduate school. I was petrified! Now, I would handle things differently. It was really just an example of an out of my element kind of experience. There are intellectual and economic issues at play for me. Though I have a very high IQ, I didn't grow up in an educated family. They're smart, capable people, but they're not formally educated. I've played a lot of catch-up as an adult to know what others around me know. Of course, no one knows everything, but there is a body of knowledge that I believe it's anticipated that people in certain fields have. 

I grew up poor but not knowing I was poor.  My parents while not having college degrees (my dad dropped out of college on the advice of his councilor--he couldn't pass the basic algebra class) gave us a childhood rich in experiences and the knowledge that education is not just had in a classroom but is for life.  Give your children the same expectations and you won't have to worry if they don't know how to order in Italian.  TIfhey will be confident and ask the waiter what he/she recommends and the wine to go with the dish.  There is more stigma in pretending to know than in admitting that you don't know.  If a certain body of knowledge that they lack is needed for their career, giving them the ability to go find out and acquire that knowledge is a much better skill that trying to anticipate what skills they will need as adults.
 

[Mummoth]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I keep checking this thread... and it's making me rage.  I should probably step away from the internet now...

I get the giggles every time I come in here... I just keep thinking of what it would say if I'd started the thread:

"My question is specifically for families with low incomes - low 2-figures in a high COL area. What do you consider essential skills for your children to learn that are likely class-related? DH & I were talking today about groceries. Our children are way too young to shop for themselves, but I want them to know the difference between the types of promotions stores have, when it's worth paying for name-brand, etc. I am from a working class family, and I've had to kind of figure it all out on my own. I guess I'm just thinking about a more systematic approach with DC.

I was telling my husband about going into a restaurant that someone else suggested. The entire menu was in English, but there were lots of items I wasn't familiar with. I don't really remember anything about the restaurant except that I kept praying that I could guess well enough from there not being pictures to like what I ordered. I want my children to be better prepared. I'm curious as to what other parents in this income bracket feel are essential bits of knowledge." 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

Why? Really, I ask sincerely - why is it so terrible for someone to ask what OP has asked? Some may not agree with it, others may. But what's so wrong with asking?

I agree. My mother grew up dirt poor -- her parents were migrate workers and as a child she picked cotton and sometime slept in the car (because they were sort of homeless part of time). My mother was the first person in her family to complete high school.

My father grew up dirt poor on a farm with too many children. They sometimes didn't have enough food. He was the first person in his family to graduate from college.

I grew up middle class with parents who were trying to figure out a middle class lifestyle from watching TV. I took piano and tennis lessons because my mother was sure that's what all middle class girls did. Often my life growing up was somewhat stilted as my parents were trying to lead a life based on what they could tell from looking at the externals.  It's like they were trying to base their lives on what they learned watching Leave it to Beaver.

I think that many people have misguided notions about how others live, or what one can afford and not afford at certain salary levels (while living in one's means, saving for college and retirement, etc).

All that is to say, I think it was a valid question. I understand where it comes from.

And I think a lot of the answers here have been awesome. I've found it interesting to read about others experiences growing and that effected them.

Over all, the tone of the thread is that how we treat people is more important than status symbols, and that's a nice message.  And that culture (art, music, etc) really aren't specific to a certain income level.

[MrsGregory]

I was in a very low-brow restaurant this weekend.  I felt a little out of place because growing up, we didn't have enough spare money to eat out at all, and I was kind of overdressed in my 10$ cotton jersey dress from the Ross discount rack.  I wasn't familiar with the cuisine, and I found an item that seemed nice, but I wasn't sure of all it's components, and I was unable to guess at it's pronunciation.

So...  I asked the waiter how the item was pronounced, what was in it, exactly, and if he recommended it.  And it was delicious.  And I made two new friends, because the waiter didn't know, so he flagged down his friend, who helped both of us learn something new.

I have to admit...  I'm really here in this thread to fly my little working-class flag high and proud.  My husband and I are doing better than either of us ever could have thought of as children, and we're still nowhere near the tax bracket requested at the start of this thread.  But if millions of dollars fell out of my backside tomorrow morning I'd still be a working class girl.  I'm proud of where I come from.  I was raised to carry myself with dignity, and to be smart enough to not starve to death even if we were the poorest of people in the worst of times.  Raise your children to be decent, respectful, curious and hard-working, and the money shouldn't matter.

[zinemama]

I think it's a valid question, too. I'm not in the 6-figure income realm, but I consider our family to be firmly in the UMC by virtue of education and values. I don't particularly care whether or not my children grow up to know about fine wines or how to figure out an Italian menu. I want them to have the confidence to ask for assistance about things like that when necessary.

I consider it extremely important for my kids to be well-read by the time they are adults. I want them familiar with the classics (including the Bible, Hebrew scriptures and Christian), which are the backbone of Western culture and run through so many aspects of life, from casual references to deep influences. It's also important that they be familiar with contemporary literature and have an understanding of why those all-important classics don't include works by women or people of color, for the most part.

I want them to be aware of the privilege they have been born into and to consider it a priority to work for social and economic justice.

[serenbat]

I think it's a valid question, too. 

 and I think lower classes should be teaching their children as well

my first thought were of "The Covenant" (Michener) - teach wine paring and learn the history behind it, the language and if you are lucky some culture along the way

every food dish has a story and if in the end your child can order in a 5 star restaurant in Italian or French or what ever- so be it

[BlueStateMama]

We're in a high income bracket.  I want my children to be at ease in all levels of social interactions - to be cool and have fun hanging out at a bonfire and mudding on ATVs and drinking (when they're of age ;) cheap beer.  I'd like them to be comfortable walking into a formal dining situation and knowing how to navigate the nuances of table manners.  Not having every answer, but having the confidence and the grace to look at the waiter and feel comfortable asking questions. To not be fake and pretentious.

To me, it isn't a money issue, it's class.  I thank my parents for demonstrating and teaching me the ability to be comfortable in all social settings.  And that being a snob was the HEIGHT of being declasse.  And if I ever catch my children acting like entitled elitists, well,  there would be hell to pay (and I would know that I had failed them)

[A&A]

I want them to know that so many, many, many children around the world don't even get enough food to eat each day.  So every single day we should appreciate what we have, not feel superior because of it, and find ways to help others.  I also want them to know basic survival skills, like how to build a fire and grow a garden.  Because what we have could be taken away from us. 

Beyond that, I think it's important to give our children experiences, rather than lots of things.  Music lessons, for example. 

And I don't drink wine.  At all.  So I wouldn't be pairing it with food.  At all.  I really don't see it as an "essential" skill. 

[Hoopin' Mama]

I want my child to learn grace, humility, manners, kindness, compassion, confidence, and humor. From that starting point, the rest of the world can be easily navigated. This wouldn't change if we lost it all tomorrow or our income tripled. 

We barely meet the income requirements for this thread. I grew up poor and I am professionally and  personally surrounded by people from very wealthy families. They possess many of the qualities I admire (stated above). I want my child to learn NOT to be the person who said to me at a business dinner - Wow, you haven't traveled much, have you?

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

 and I think lower classes should be teaching their children as well

This is it, IMO. I don't believe we should teach our kids certain things because they belong to a certain class... and certainly not to impress others of that class. If wine pairings is something enjoyable & important to you, go ahead & teach that, but why is that only for people in the 6-figure income bracket? Same with anything else you mentioned... And I also think you need to be prepared for the possibility of your children ending up in a different class than you, either by choice or chance. What if they are irresponsible or unlucky & go bankrupt? You have money & investments for them, but what if they refuse to accept these things as adults? I'd want my child to be prepared to live in various circumstances and have compassion for all. I'd feel better about the job I did as a parent if my child chose to use his money to fly to Africa to work with impoverished children than to be able to order off a menu in a fancy French restaurant.

[Quinalla]

I think one of the most important things to teach is that they are growing up in a privledged state and to be aware of that privledge. When I grew up, my famly was poor, but we always had enough to eat (nearly always homemade) and clothes (hand-me-downs) just ot put it in perspective, and I remember having "rich" friends (rich meaning made a lot more money than my parents at the time and affluent for the local community, not necessarily rich in any community) and they were very nice but there were times when they way they grew up being used to having "everything" made them very oblivious to how most every other child grew up.

And yes, as other have stated, learning how to do things for themselves that they might never have to do becasue of that financial privlegde. Cooking, cleaning, yardwork, basic vehicle maintenance, laundry, managing finances, etc. Life skills that I think everyone should know. Managing finances especially is somethign that can be hard to impress on kids of rich parents, you have to work at it to show them how its done, whereas if someone grows up poor or middle class, the kids will feel the constraints of money to a certain extent in their daily lives.

As far as what to know to better fit in with others in the upper class, honestly I don't know, I think that would likely be very local community specific. Where I am, there is very little class-expectation in that income bracket except that you own a house, own a certain caliber car (think Mercedes, Audi, BMW, etc.), that the husband works and the wife stays home with the kids, at most works part-time (this one gets on my nerves since I work full-time too ), that you will drink a glass of wine I suppose: that's about it here though.

(And this is from the persepective of someone in that income bracket if that matters to the OP, I definitely worry most about not impressing the importance of managing finances and raising a kid who is oblivious to her priveledge. A big thing for us though is living below our means, we want to retire early, so we live below our means to meet that goal, but we still splurge on certain things we really enjoy and we try really hard to not overspend on DD as it is so easy to do.)

[swd12422]

In reading the responses on this thread, another lightbulb moment for me came to mind. I was in my 20s, single, and moderately employed. I could afford to buy decent clothes and food, and go out with my friends now and then. I met up with a new friend for drinks after work one night. He was about my age, but already married with a baby and a house and a HUGE truck. He was struggling with the fact that he was struggling financially, and hoping for his wife to be able to get back to work soon. He asked how much debt I had. I said, "none." He said, "What about your car?" I said, "It's 8 years old and I paid cash for it used." I had to explain that my parents required me to get an education, so they had paid for it, and I was lucky to not have student loans. And I rented my apartment. So no debt. He reached out to shake my hand and said, "Congratulations. You are officially the wealthiest person I know." So I probed a bit b/c we had mutual friends who lived a much nicer/freer/more socially high end lifestyle than I did. All of them were in debt up to their eyeballs, and just used credit cards to pay for all the fun. It made me sad. Here I was, struggling (in their eyes, since I couldn't just eat out when I wanted and buy whatever clothes/jewelry I wanted and drive whatever car I wanted) and I was the "wealthiest" of all of them.

Now I realize that most of the people I know still place so much more importance on appearances and conveniences and having fun than on self-sufficiency and satisfaction with what is right in front of them. It still makes me sad. Raise your kids to be thankful for what they have, no matter how much or how little it is.

[~Adorkable~]

I'm so  sick of the reverse class discrimination that is allowed to go unchecked in life and in here on MDC. Why is it not ok (and i agree it's not) to take shots at someone for being poor, but seemingly open season of someone who is rich?

i grew up in two very conflicted worlds, my normal life 8-9 months a year was anywhere from lower working class to down and out poor. i have, as a child, dumpster dived, begged on the street, slept on the ride of the road and actually known what it was like to be "starving" a word that is so misused usually it sickens me. Then at random times in my life i was plucked out of that life by very wealthy relatives and spent time traveling the world, vacationing on private yachts, museum level art buying trips and constant exposure to fine theater and formal dinning in NYC and abroad.  I am now on my own and really pretty smack dab in the middle, the rich relatives are gone and so are the dumpsters. So i feel particularly well situated to address this. One of the most confusing things about my upbringing was listening to, from a very young age, both sets of people talk trash about the other. i felt like i had to lie constantly to both groups in order not to be unfairly judged and cast out. If anything i actually got this worse from my "real" life about my "rich" life. So if i sound like a have a chip on my shoulder, I do.

a few truths:

• Being poor and being rich ARE different, anyone who says they aren't and that the money you have does not mean anything is full of it. maybe it shouldn't and it doesn't in most ways that are really meaningful, but they are different.
• A persons responsibility and ability to being a good human does not differ at all no matter what the situation, ever.
• Neither "class" is more entitled to anything and both ends of the spectrum are equally guilty of thinking they are, just in different ways.
• Judging someone or pigeon-holing them based solely on the money they have is completely out of line, this goes for every person on the finical spectrum equally.
• There are life skills that serve everyone and you never know when you are going to need them, you would do good to teach your kids them.
• There are also life skills that you are way more likely  to come across needing when you are in i high income bracket or enveloped with those that are. i personally think everyone would be enriched to learn these too, but at a bear minimum, those that know that are likely to come up in their kids life are smart  to be asking the questions and wanting to give them the tools.
• You never know when you are going to be trust into another financial class(higher or lower), whether thru your own career success/ failure, marriage/divorce or a job role. so the only question is how prepared for life do you want to be and how far down on your priorities to you have time to teach, you can't know everything of course.

now that  have ranted, i will list a fe things that i was glad i was taught and came in handy when dealing with upper class experiences, since that is what the OP asked. (many of these things are like i said above, handy for everyone)

• Comfort in formal social situations, formal eating, greeting folks.
• A broad open mind about food is helpful, how to politely not eat something on your plate is a good back up!
• As a child it was good that i was shown the fun in formal situations, how to be entertaining to myself and the adults while not "crashing the party"
• Hosting. it is a lost art and an art to be sure! i love hosting in large part because it was something i learned at the knee of someone else who love it. (I'm an military wife now I'm getting to use this in a whole new way!)
• How to invest, save and spend wisely, no matter how much you have to spend.
• How to protect yourself from those that would use you for your money, without getting bitter or paranoid about the world.
• The joy and social responsibility of charity and that time is money and to give both if you can

• and of course , maybe most importantly, every truth that is on the list above!

you can be all pissed at this post and i reality dont give a rats ass. i really feel like this is the truth that does not get spoken often enough. if you feel like you have a problem with me about this, then the problem is within yourself. i am a kind loving open minded woman. i make no insinuation that i am better or worse than anyone because of their life, class or station. We became good or bad folks based on how we treat each other and the way we better or drain the world.