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Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge? - Page 4

post #61 of 345

Alright who was taking shots here?  Seriously?  Because quite a few of us said we didn't think the things the OP brought up were that important?  Why get worked up over it? 
And I've been on both sides of it as well.  I prefer the middle ground.  I still like my Jaliscos!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

I'm so censored.gif sick of the reverse class discrimination that is allowed to go unchecked in life and in here on MDC. Why is it not ok (and i agree it's not) to take shots at someone for being poor, but seemingly open season of someone who is rich?

 

i grew up in two very conflicted worlds, my normal life 8-9 months a year was anywhere from lower working class to down and out poor. i have, as a child, dumpster dived, begged on the street, slept on the ride of the road and actually known what it was like to be "starving" a word that is so misused usually it sickens me. Then at random times in my life i was plucked out of that life by very wealthy relatives and spent time traveling the world, vacationing on private yachts, museum level art buying trips and constant exposure to fine theater and formal dinning in NYC and abroad.  I am now on my own and really pretty smack dab in the middle, the rich relatives are gone and so are the dumpsters. So i feel particularly well situated to address this. One of the most confusing things about my upbringing was listening to, from a very young age, both sets of people talk trash about the other. i felt like i had to lie constantly to both groups in order not to be unfairly judged and cast out. If anything i actually got this worse from my "real" life about my "rich" life. So if i sound like a have a chip on my shoulder, I do.

 

a few truths:

 

  • Being poor and being rich ARE different, anyone who says they aren't and that the money you have does not mean anything is full of it. maybe it shouldn't and it doesn't in most ways that are really meaningful, but they are different.
  • A persons responsibility and ability to being a good human does not differ at all no matter what the situation, ever.
  • Neither "class" is more entitled to anything and both ends of the spectrum are equally guilty of thinking they are, just in different ways.
  • Judging someone or pigeon-holing them based solely on the money they have is completely out of line, this goes for every person on the finical spectrum equally.
  • There are life skills that serve everyone and you never know when you are going to need them, you would do good to teach your kids them.
  • There are also life skills that you are way more likely  to come across needing when you are in i high income bracket or enveloped with those that are. i personally think everyone would be enriched to learn these too, but at a bear minimum, those that know that are likely to come up in their kids life are smart  to be asking the questions and wanting to give them the tools.
  • You never know when you are going to be trust into another financial class(higher or lower), whether thru your own career success/ failure, marriage/divorce or a job role. so the only question is how prepared for life do you want to be and how far down on your priorities to you have time to teach, you can't know everything of course.

 

 

now that  have ranted, i will list a fe things that i was glad i was taught and came in handy when dealing with upper class experiences, since that is what the OP asked. (many of these things are like i said above, handy for everyone)

 

  • Comfort in formal social situations, formal eating, greeting folks.
  • A broad open mind about food is helpful, how to politely not eat something on your plate is a good back up!
  • As a child it was good that i was shown the fun in formal situations, how to be entertaining to myself and the adults while not "crashing the party"
  • Hosting. it is a lost art and an art to be sure! i love hosting in large part because it was something i learned at the knee of someone else who love it. (I'm an military wife now I'm getting to use this in a whole new way!)
  • How to invest, save and spend wisely, no matter how much you have to spend.
  • How to protect yourself from those that would use you for your money, without getting bitter or paranoid about the world.
  • The joy and social responsibility of charity and that time is money and to give both if you can

 

  • and of course , maybe most importantly, every truth that is on the list above!

 

 

 

you can be all pissed at this post and i reality dont give a rats ass. i really feel like this is the truth that does not get spoken often enough. if you feel like you have a problem with me about this, then the problem is within yourself. i am a kind loving open minded woman. i make no insinuation that i am better or worse than anyone because of their life, class or station. We became good or bad folks based on how we treat each other and the way we better or drain the world.

 

 



 

post #62 of 345


Adorkable, thank you very much for this. A very honest and sincere post.

I think Adorkable has many very good points, but one of them is that you never know when you will be thrust into a higher or lower income bracket. Being capable of living frugally, and knowing the true difference between needs and wants is a valuable life skill. Kindness and respect are not class dependent, far from it. However, I do think that entitlement does sometimes come with wealth. However, not all entitlement is bad. As an example, I think everyone should be able to respectfully, yet firmly, question their doctor about anything medical. Some lower class people see the authority figure and do not feel entitled to question, which I think is to that persons detriment. And I agree that being poor and being rich are different. Not superior or inferior, but definitely different. We may not wish it to be, but it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

I'm so censored.gif sick of the reverse class discrimination that is allowed to go unchecked in life and in here on MDC. Why is it not ok (and i agree it's not) to take shots at someone for being poor, but seemingly open season of someone who is rich?

 

i grew up in two very conflicted worlds, my normal life 8-9 months a year was anywhere from lower working class to down and out poor. i have, as a child, dumpster dived, begged on the street, slept on the ride of the road and actually known what it was like to be "starving" a word that is so misused usually it sickens me. Then at random times in my life i was plucked out of that life by very wealthy relatives and spent time traveling the world, vacationing on private yachts, museum level art buying trips and constant exposure to fine theater and formal dinning in NYC and abroad.  I am now on my own and really pretty smack dab in the middle, the rich relatives are gone and so are the dumpsters. So i feel particularly well situated to address this. One of the most confusing things about my upbringing was listening to, from a very young age, both sets of people talk trash about the other. i felt like i had to lie constantly to both groups in order not to be unfairly judged and cast out. If anything i actually got this worse from my "real" life about my "rich" life. So if i sound like a have a chip on my shoulder, I do.

 

a few truths:

 

  • Being poor and being rich ARE different, anyone who says they aren't and that the money you have does not mean anything is full of it. maybe it shouldn't and it doesn't in most ways that are really meaningful, but they are different.
  • A persons responsibility and ability to being a good human does not differ at all no matter what the situation, ever.
  • Neither "class" is more entitled to anything and both ends of the spectrum are equally guilty of thinking they are, just in different ways.
  • Judging someone or pigeon-holing them based solely on the money they have is completely out of line, this goes for every person on the finical spectrum equally.
  • There are life skills that serve everyone and you never know when you are going to need them, you would do good to teach your kids them.
  • There are also life skills that you are way more likely  to come across needing when you are in i high income bracket or enveloped with those that are. i personally think everyone would be enriched to learn these too, but at a bear minimum, those that know that are likely to come up in their kids life are smart  to be asking the questions and wanting to give them the tools.
  • You never know when you are going to be trust into another financial class(higher or lower), whether thru your own career success/ failure, marriage/divorce or a job role. so the only question is how prepared for life do you want to be and how far down on your priorities to you have time to teach, you can't know everything of course.

 

 

now that  have ranted, i will list a fe things that i was glad i was taught and came in handy when dealing with upper class experiences, since that is what the OP asked. (many of these things are like i said above, handy for everyone)

 

  • Comfort in formal social situations, formal eating, greeting folks.
  • A broad open mind about food is helpful, how to politely not eat something on your plate is a good back up!
  • As a child it was good that i was shown the fun in formal situations, how to be entertaining to myself and the adults while not "crashing the party"
  • Hosting. it is a lost art and an art to be sure! i love hosting in large part because it was something i learned at the knee of someone else who love it. (I'm an military wife now I'm getting to use this in a whole new way!)
  • How to invest, save and spend wisely, no matter how much you have to spend.
  • How to protect yourself from those that would use you for your money, without getting bitter or paranoid about the world.
  • The joy and social responsibility of charity and that time is money and to give both if you can

 

  • and of course , maybe most importantly, every truth that is on the list above!

 

 

 

you can be all pissed at this post and i reality dont give a rats ass. i really feel like this is the truth that does not get spoken often enough. if you feel like you have a problem with me about this, then the problem is within yourself. i am a kind loving open minded woman. i make no insinuation that i am better or worse than anyone because of their life, class or station. We became good or bad folks based on how we treat each other and the way we better or drain the world.

 

 



 

post #63 of 345


You lost me when you said "some lower class".
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonR View Post


Adorkable, thank you very much for this. A very honest and sincere post.

I think Adorkable has many very good points, but one of them is that you never know when you will be thrust into a higher or lower income bracket. Being capable of living frugally, and knowing the true difference between needs and wants is a valuable life skill. Kindness and respect are not class dependent, far from it. However, I do think that entitlement does sometimes come with wealth. However, not all entitlement is bad. As an example, I think everyone should be able to respectfully, yet firmly, question their doctor about anything medical. Some lower class people see the authority figure and do not feel entitled to question, which I think is to that persons detriment. And I agree that being poor and being rich are different. Not superior or inferior, but definitely different. We may not wish it to be, but it is.



 



 

post #64 of 345


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonR View Post


Adorkable, thank you very much for this. A very honest and sincere post.

I think Adorkable has many very good points, but one of them is that you never know when you will be thrust into a higher or lower income bracket. Being capable of living frugally, and knowing the true difference between needs and wants is a valuable life skill. Kindness and respect are not class dependent, far from it. However, I do think that entitlement does sometimes come with wealth. However, not all entitlement is bad. As an example, I think everyone should be able to respectfully, yet firmly, question their doctor about anything medical. Some lower class people see the authority figure and do not feel entitled to question, which I think is to that persons detriment. And I agree that being poor and being rich are different. Not superior or inferior, but definitely different. We may not wish it to be, but it is.



 

Yeah I don't think that's a good example.

 

My dear mom has six figures in her retirement income and she would never question the authority of a doctor. I don't understand this. I think a lot of folks in her generation rich or poor are like this.

 

 

 

post #65 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

I'm so censored.gif sick of the reverse class discrimination that is allowed to go unchecked in life and in here on MDC. Why is it not ok (and i agree it's not) to take shots at someone for being poor, but seemingly open season of someone who is rich?

 

you can be all pissed at this post and i reality dont give a rats ass. i really feel like this is the truth that does not get spoken often enough. if you feel like you have a problem with me about this, then the problem is within yourself. i am a kind loving open minded woman. i make no insinuation that i am better or worse than anyone because of their life, class or station. We became good or bad folks based on how we treat each other and the way we better or drain the world.

 

The OP started a thread with an income requirement as if those that make under that amount would not have anything to add about essential life skills their children might require to succeed. I think that's a pretty ugly assumption.   
 


edited to remove another quote and response


Edited by AbbyGrant - 5/27/12 at 5:14am
post #66 of 345

This thread orginated because the OP wanted to know what she needed to teach her children... about the class they were in.  You know how to mingle with their class so that they're not out of place.  And she specifically asked 6 figure income holders to join in on the conversation.  Why?  Why not just be who you are?  Why try to impress?  Why try to "FIT IN"?  I don't get it.  But some of you did.  And some of you agreed there are things that are important in our perspective classes that we must all pass on to our children. 

 

 

Adorkable... reverse class discrimination...?  Really?  The persecution must be HOT HOT HOT!  Every day people in the shrinking middle class are looked down upon and treated so unfairly.  It pains me to think about it.

 

 

 

post #67 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

This thread orginated because the OP wanted to know what she needed to teach her children... about the class they were in.  You know how to mingle with their class so that they're not out of place.  And she specifically asked 6 figure income holders to join in on the conversation.  Why?  Why not just be who you are?  Why try to impress?  Why try to "FIT IN"?  I don't get it.  But some of you did.  And some of you agreed there are things that are important in our perspective classes that we must all pass on to our children. 

 

 

Adorkable... reverse class discrimination...?  Really?  The persecution must be HOT HOT HOT!  Every day people in the shrinking middle class are looked down upon and treated so unfairly.  It pains me to think about it.


ROTFLMAO.gifYes!  That's what I was thinking, too.  Those poor discriminated against rich people!  So unfair!  But I don't think anyone here is down on anyone for having money.  I am certain that there are a whole world of people with money out there who are normal down to earth folks with all the same fears and desires that the rest of us have and who would never think to judge someone poorly because they choose the wrong wine or don't know how to ski or golf or whatever.  There are probably also perfectly wonderful people who really enjoy knowing a lot about wine and would like nothing more than to pick out some wine for their friend who wasn't raised to know anything about wine.  I think it is odd to want to raise one's children to be able to hang out with people who would look down on people who couldn't do those things.  Who would want to hang out with those people?  Adorkable, I am sure you're bristling at that, but really, is it true that your rich family are the people I'm talking about?  Or are they people who know which fork to use but don't think that's what's truly important in life?

 

post #68 of 345


I don't look think it's right to look down on anyone.  I also think Classism is disgusting.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post


ROTFLMAO.gifYes!  That's what I was thinking, too.  Those poor discriminated against rich people!  So unfair!  But I don't think anyone here is down on anyone for having money.  I am certain that there are a whole world of people with money out there who are normal down to earth folks with all the same fears and desires that the rest of us have and who would never think to judge someone poorly because they choose the wrong wine or don't know how to ski or golf or whatever.  There are probably also perfectly wonderful people who really enjoy knowing a lot about wine and would like nothing more than to pick out some wine for their friend who wasn't raised to know anything about wine.  I think it is odd to want to raise one's children to be able to hang out with people who would look down on people who couldn't do those things.  Who would want to hang out with those people?  Adorkable, I am sure you're bristling at that, but really, is it true that your rich family are the people I'm talking about?  Or are they people who know which fork to use but don't think that's what's truly important in life?

 



 

post #69 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 

Adorkable... reverse class discrimination...?  Really?  The persecution must be HOT HOT HOT!  Every day people in the shrinking middle class are looked down upon and treated so unfairly.  It pains me to think about it.

 


I don't think "discrimination" is the right word.  I'm not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, but I think probably what she meant is that there are assumptions and attitudes flying in both directions.  For example, if you're poor, you're probably virtuous, if you're not poor, you possess neither compassion, empathy or any other positive human quality average masses possess. 

 

I see it here all the time at MDC:  self-congradulatory posts for not being like "them"...those people with fancy cars and fancy trips and disposable income. 

 

I'm not apologizing for bad behavior on any income level.  I've been on all sides of the equation and there are crappy people in every strata.  But, I do recognize that it is easy to jump to conclusions about others' character based on income.  I'll be the first to admit that I have and struggle with biases.
 

 

post #70 of 345


Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

a few truths:

 

  • Being poor and being rich ARE different, anyone who says they aren't and that the money you have does not mean anything is full of it. maybe it shouldn't and it doesn't in most ways that are really meaningful, but they are different.

 

I'm really curious to know what you mean here, especially about the money meaning something.  It's obvious there would be a difference in what could be bought as far as material goods and experiences, so I'm assuming you mean something else.  I make just under the initial income requirement to answer the OP's question, so I'm just wondering how that makes me different than those who make above.  

post #71 of 345


Pedigree dear. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post


Quote:

 

I'm really curious to know what you mean here.  I mean it's obvious there would be a difference in what can be bought as far as material goods and experiences, so I'm assuming you mean something else.  I make just under the initial income requirement to answer the OP's question, so I'm just wondering how that makes me different than those who make above.  



 

post #72 of 345

People are people.  Not one person is better than any other.  EVER!  Money, class, or lack of does not equate a persons worth.  For those who say that's just how it is... Well maybe it's just how it is because you shrugged your shoulders and looked away. 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post


. For example, if you're poor, you're probably virtuous, if you're not poor, you possess neither compassion, empathy or any other positive human quality average masses possess. 

 

 



 

post #73 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post


Quote:

 

I'm really curious to know what you mean here, especially about the money meaning something.  It's obvious there would be a difference in what could be bought as far as material goods and experiences, so I'm assuming you mean something else.  I make just under the initial income requirement to answer the OP's question, so I'm just wondering how that makes me different than those who make above.  



 

I'm curious too. Because certainly the examples given in the OP aren't exclusive to that income level... by a long shot. I have never made close to that amount, but I know about wine and can muck around most menus even if I don't speak the language. Your cafe doesn't have to be expensive to have a bit of French on the menu. My older daughter can as well, as she has traveled Europe, Africa, and Central America. On a budget you know, on a food server's salary no less.

post #74 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

 

Adorkable... reverse class discrimination...?  Really?  The persecution must be HOT HOT HOT!  Every day people in the shrinking middle class are looked down upon and treated so unfairly.  It pains me to think about it.

 


I don't think "discrimination" is the right word.  I'm not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, but I think probably what she meant is that there are assumptions and attitudes flying in both directions.  For example, if you're poor, you're probably virtuous, if you're not poor, you possess neither compassion, empathy or any other positive human quality average masses possess. 

 

I see it here all the time at MDC:  self-congradulatory posts for not being like "them"...those people with fancy cars and fancy trips and disposable income. 

 

I'm not apologizing for bad behavior on any income level.  I've been on all sides of the equation and there are crappy people in every strata.  But, I do recognize that it is easy to jump to conclusions about others' character based on income.  I'll be the first to admit that I have and struggle with biases.
 

 


I agree that there are assumptions that fly in both directions. I also agree that being rich and poor are different. The main difference, and the difference that I have the biggest problem with, is that the rich have power, and the ability to meaningfully lobby the government. The poor don't in many ways, and are underrepresented in government. Which is a BIG problem, especially since the poor carry the higher tax burdens, have less access to medical care, less access to education, less access to adequate housing, etc, and the poor income brackets are growing in size. The rich are getting richer, and are doing everything they can to keep the poor people poor. American Dream my ass. It's quickly disappearing.
post #75 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


I agree that there are assumptions that fly in both directions. I also agree that being rich and poor are different. The main difference, and the difference that I have the biggest problem with, is that the rich have power, and the ability to meaningfully lobby the government. The poor don't in many ways, and are underrepresented in government. Which is a BIG problem, especially since the poor carry the higher tax burdens, have less access to medical care, less access to education, less access to adequate housing, etc, and the poor income brackets are growing in size. The rich are getting richer, and are doing everything they can to keep the poor people poor. American Dream my ass. It's quickly disappearing.


Yes! I cannot agree with this more!!

 

As for the OP...I'm in two minds. First, I'm slightly appalled that this thread had an income bracket. Just because I'm poor I have nothing to add? And why are there special things you feel your children need to learn simply because you are in the Upper Middle Class? This is hard for me to process.

 

Then, I remember my childhood with parents who were upper middle class and how there are some things that have been difficult for me to transition to now that I am married and quite poor. None of it has to do with human decency, compassion, faith or love, though. Its had to do with how unprepared I was to be a struggling adult and how I did not realize that life happens and financial stability isn't all that stable. So to answer the questions (if you even want my response since I am no where near this income bracket and probably never will be), teach your children that life happens and money isn't necessarily lasting. Teach them how to manage money, how to budget, how to live frugally and how to save. Teach them how to clip coupons, look for sales, browse through racks upon racks of clearance items and get a good deal. Teach them that they are no different then their poorer neighbors. And teach them how to be happy without money. These are things I wish my parents had taught me. And as others said, basic life skills-cooking, cleaning, car care etc etc etc. But mostly, the money stuff.

 

Beyond that, I think everyone has equal access and ability to learning anything else. Being rich doesn't mean you understand philosophy any better than someone who is dirt poor. Wine is not just for those with money. Sure, you've got a better ability to buy it than I do, but it makes that expensive bottle that much more meaningful to me. *shrug* I don't see how anything else you've discussed is so class specific. And that's where I get offended. I'm just as able to know these things. My financial standing has nothing to do with my brain power.

 

post #76 of 345

There were some pretty rude responses here, based purely on socio-economic status.

 

Yes, there ARE things people who run in moneyed circles should know, passing/cultural references they should understand. Same in other circles. Just because it's a different group doesn't make it better - OR worse - than any other.

post #77 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

There were some pretty rude responses here, based purely on socio-economic status.

 

Yes, there ARE things people who run in moneyed circles should know, passing/cultural references they should understand. Same in other circles. Just because it's a different group doesn't make it better - OR worse - than any other.


Like what, though?  I am totally ignorant of all of that  --  I mean the passing/cultural references that should be understood  --  but I don't think it has gotten in my way (although, who knows, maybe it's possible that everyone laughs when I leave the room or something).  

post #78 of 345
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

Yes, there ARE things people who run in moneyed circles should know, passing/cultural references they should understand. Same in other circles. Just because it's a different group doesn't make it better - OR worse - than any other.


What are the things that children in more monied circles should know that my middle class children don't need to know?  

post #79 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

There were some pretty rude responses here, based purely on socio-economic status.

Yes, there ARE things people who run in moneyed circles should know, passing/cultural references they should understand. Same in other circles. Just because it's a different group doesn't make it better - OR worse - than any other.

I certainly have nothing against people with money but I do find abhorrent the idea that people with money should primarily hang around other people with money and have their own set of cultural references that is completely separate from those of people without money.
post #80 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 


What are the things that children in more monied circles should know that my middle class children don't need to?  



Very likely so. Are your children - when they are grown - likely to go to black tie charity events at the Met (pick which one)? The Phil? To run in circles where they will be dining in restaurants where a bottle of wine runs a minimum of $350?

 

Running in those circles, yes, they need to have a clue regarding those kinds of things. Because like it or not, if they don't? They will be the laughing stock of the party. *I* would rather my kids know all that, AND be comfortable in a pair of jeans mucking out a barn. But yes, I do want them to know how to clean up well and hold their own with the power brokers. At least one of my kids will likely be playing in those circles, and I don't want him to come off as a boor. I'm sorry if that's offensive to some.

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